Design Thread - For Discussion and Review

[GPuzzle]

Ferdinand III of Castille:

UA: Fuero Juzgo - Religious Buildings and worked Holy Sites provide +10 XP. Gain Faith from winning battles.

UU: Hidalgo - Great General replacement. Increased movement. May be purchased with Faith, and may build Holy Sites. If garrisoned in a City, Military Buildings provide Faith, and units gain +15 XP.

UU: Peones - Pikeman replacement. +15% STR when sharing a tile with a Great General.

Henry the Navigator - Portugal

UA: Age of Exploration: Recieve Gold for discovering tiles, doubled if Ocean or Sea tiles. Recieve a free Capitao-Mor upon the discovery of Astronomy.

UU: Capitão-Mor: Great Admiral replacement. May be expended in cities to provide an extra Trade Route. If garrisoned in a city, increase production of Naval Units by 50%. Increases Movement of Naval Units adjacent to it by +1.

UU: Nau: Caravel replacement. +1 Movement and +1 Vision. May sell Exotic Luxuries for XP and Gold. +15% STR if within 3 tiles of a Trade Route.

Instead of the Nau, Maria I gets the following:

UU: Caçador: Rifleman replacement. Ignores terrain cost. +1 Movement while in Friendly territory. Gains Gold from Kills.

So, what do you guys think?

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

Ferdinand could end up with some silly XP buffs if taken to the extreme. Shrine, Temple, 4 religious buildings, arsenal, barracks, military base, stationed GG, four holy sites (could easily be more, especially with the GG replacement I could see way more than that) and the BG? Thats... 170 experience out of the gate! Obviously you probably wont be able to nab all 4 religious building beliefs but that's still insane - and thats not even the logical extreme, which would be 320 experience out of the gate. Might need some tweaking. The faith from kills I don't like simply because its so overused now - its used in some form or another in a vanilla UU and a religious belief and I've seen it in a lot of modded civs as either UUs or UAs, its just naut very exciting anymore. I like the Hidalgo; works with the UA but could be OP given the extra 10xp from holy sites. The Peones is a tad simple (and essentially Chinas UA) but solid, and works with the UA, so thats fine.

No complaints about Portugal, really cool design. Dunno how easy it'd be to code but its interesting and all the uniques work pretty well together.

Cacador is also pretty cool, if sliigghtly powerful but Maria has never been top tier anyway so its fine that way. That said the name does give me some... [URL="http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/1/14/Cazador_up_close_and_personal.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130116225621]nasty flashbacks[/URL].

 

[GPuzzle]

Hmm. Might set a hard limit to it and tone it down (+5 XP each?) +25 XP max wouldn't be too much, would it? I wanted to do a Faith+War Civ without overlapping with DJS' Bosnia or ryanjames' Protectorate. Maybe units adjacent to Missionaries gaining a combat bonus?

Thanks! I was worried it might be too much, but the hardest part to code will probably be the Nau's bonus when within 3 tiles of a Trade Route - if not possible, I may drop that entirely, but I think it will be easy enough.

The UA shouldn't be too hard, as one part is taken care of the in SQL thanks to the trigger that gives Babylon its Great Scientist upon Writing and Venice its Merchant of Venice upon Optics, the other... I think it shouldn't be too hard as well. If it is, I might ask for help. The UU is literally a total pastiche of things: JFD's Dayimo from the Meiji, JFD's SS Comanders from Hitler, CL's Voyager from Canada, and it's very possible. In fact, I think I have overused the "units adjacent gain a bonus" and the "bonus when garrisoned" recently thanks to me figuring out the code snippet for those. It's actually surprisingly easy.

As for the Caçador, it means Hunter in Portuguese, which is why you associated it with Fallout's Cazador (which is IIRC the Spanish word for Hunter), because it is pretty much just JFD's Jaegar historically-wise, just... Portuguese.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

As for the Caçador, it means Hunter in Portuguese, which is why you associated it with Fallout's Cazador (which is IIRC the Spanish word for Hunter), because it is pretty much just JFD's Jaegar historically-wise, just... Portuguese.

Yep. "Cazar" means hunt, not to be confused with "casar" which means marry.

I agree with the cap on Castille's UA since it could end up giving too much XP. I also really like that Henry the Navigator split. I find it unbelievable how no one has made a split for him yet.

 

[GPuzzle]

In Portuguese it's Caçar vs Casar, because of the weird relationship Portuguese has with C, S and Z sounds. So we have words like Piscina (swimming pool) which has a hard S sound, Casar (to marry), which is written with an S but has a soft Z sound, Xadrez (Chess) which has a Z with an S sound, Caçar (to hunt), which has the Ç which looks like a C but has the sound of an S vocally, Massa (pasta), which has a strong S sound...

I wonder how we manage with so many rules.

I think I might change from Henry the Navigator to João II. João II actually ruled.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

Eh, I like Henry better than Joao and everyone who wants to split Portugal wants to make Joao. Also, Gandhi never ruled India so there's a precedent.

 

[Natan35]

Eh, I like Henry better than Joao

Dat Ferdinand perfectly fits my playstyle!!!! I like it!
Its like saying: "I like Richard more than Edward".
And I didn't make a Joao!!!(or did I?)

 

[Tarmont]

Eh, I like Henry better than Joao and everyone who wants to split Portugal wants to make Joao. Also, Gandhi never ruled India so there's a precedent.

But he was the leader of the independence movement. Henry was no leader, and had no pretension to be one, While João II or Manuel I were both kings that encouraged naval expansion.

Now this is a bit little awkward because our Portugal revisions are basically the same, except that I have no Capitão-Mor (Couldn't fit them into any Portuguese leader, the Nau and the Feitoria are too good to ditch in favour of it) and Maria I ironically gets a Marquess uu alongside with the Caçador (And he replaces the Gatling Gun, rather than Rifleman). A part of the UA, for instance, is very much alike:

Gain Gold from the experience of naval units, and they gain experience from discovering tiles and researching naval technologies.

As for Castille, other than what Scott has already said, I feel that the Peones should get another bonus as well; nothing wrong with the current one but it feels a little shallow compared to other modded civs.

 

[GPuzzle]

I think we have confirmed that me and tarcisio are clones of one another (especially since part of my family is from Recife while I live in São Paulo).

Isn't this the second time this has happened?

Well, at least we can go together in this, or something.

 

[Natan35]

Korea split!!!

Silla(Muyeol)

Spoiler :

UA: Sacred Bones
Whenever a new citizen is born, gain points towards a True bone based on the number of specialists in the city. True bones may be consumed for large amounts of faith, or for a golden age. May use faith to create sacred bone* specialists.

UU: Hwarang
Replaces great general. Unlike it, may purchased with faith. It has combat strength**, and may gain experience. Each other*** Hwarang increases combat strength by 5%.

UU: Sodang
Replaces swordsman. Slightly stronger(15 ). Has the "Between Three Kingdoms" promotion, granting it +15% strength per each enemy you have(up to 45%). Also has the "Royal Guard" promotion, which causes it to reduce local unhappiness and enemy spy effectiveness the farther it is from the capital.

*yields 3 faith and 2 True bone points. When a new citizen is born, grants a boost towards Hwarang.
**Based on technologies that unlock mounted units. Max. Strength 36, after military science.
***units within two tiles of Hwarang gain 15% boost, and additional 5% per each other Hwarang within two tiles of them.

Goryeo

Spoiler :

Tripitaka Koreana
+2 faith from great works and +3 faith from great person improvements. May buy scientific and religious buildings with faith. Buildings purchased that way increase GP generation by 10%(Max. +30%).

UB: Hyanggyo
Replaces university. Does not contain scientist specialist slots, but generates 3 science. Grants +1 science per each 3 citizens in the city. Upon researching scientific theory, a public school is automatically built in the city.

UU: Great Monk
Replaces great prophet. Whenever stationed in a city, grants the benefits of his religion, and may create unique great works of writing. Additionally, it may found Mountain Monasteries (as opposed to holy sites), that yield 3 faith, 2 culture and 2 science.

Joseon(Sejong)

Spoiler :

UA: Legacy of Innovations
Upon Completing a building, receive science boost per each other building\ improvement providing the same yield in the city. Cities gain +1 production per each improvement type present in a city, per each era passed.

UU: Hwacha
Replaces Trebuchet. Unlike it, does not receive any boost against cities. Much stronger(10 , 24 ). Enemies receive no terrain\ fortification bonuses against it, But the Hwacha does receive those bonuses.

UB: Seowon
Replaces University. In addition to the university's effects, it also yields +1 production per each 2 citizens in the city. Costs 1 less maintenance.

Middle Joseon(Seonjo)

Spoiler :

UA: Righteous Army
Upon the outbreak of a war with a stronger civilization, receive great general points in all cities. Enemies take damage when finishing the turn in your territory, and contribute production towards Righteous army units when doing so. Naval units ignore enemy ZOC and may respawn after being killed.

UU: Panokseon
Replaces Galleass. More expansive, but stronger(20 , 20 ). Starts with the Targeting I and II promotions, and with "Battle of Myeongnyang" promotion, grants friendly units 10% combat boost against enemies in the Panokseon's range.

UU: Turtle Ship
Replaces Caravel. Requires one iron, and has non of the Caravel's attributes. Though slower(3 ), it is much stronger(32 ), and has the "Iron Protection" promotion, which makes it immune to bonuses vs. Ships*. Adjacent enemies receive a vision penalty(-1).

*boarding party, Targeting, Etc.

Righteous army: units under AI control that will attack the closest enemy units in your territory. If your territory is clear from enemies for more than 6 turns, it disbands and grants great general points based on its experience.

Split completed!
2 much icons for 1 post.

 

[FramedArchitect]

So it is my hope that this thread doesn't become a source of pressure for modders or designers to conform to designs that are equal parts simple, potent, and historical (not always easy to pull off either), nor a place in which the fun of designing civs is sucked out of it by rigid and devoted criticism.

Are there "sources of pressure" on mod makers? I always assume people make the mods they want to make, within the limits of their abilities and time.

 

[Natan35]

I think JFD means he doesn't want this thread to become a thread that focuses entirely on getting modders to do suggested ideas.

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

@Natan

Spoiler :

I actually quite like that True Bone concept, but I feel like its a bit underutilised. A UB or making reference to it in the UUs would be better, in my humble opinion. Especially since there's almost 0 synergy between the uniques - UA emphasises passive faith and tall gameplay, the GG emphasises warmongering, the other UU emphasies super warmongering (needing you to be at war with three other civs to get the max bonus) and the 'Royal Guard' promotion looks best for a wide game. No synergy.

Goreyo, like all of your designs, has three bonuses, which I don't like. Got no problem with the bonuses themselves, it just comes across as cluttered and odd. That said, it could easily be reworded into two sentences, so keep that in mind - it'll always look better that way. The UA itself is nice, very cyclical! The UB is an absurd step down from the regular uni, and actually contradicts the UA since it removes specialists, your primary means of GP generation! I'm assuming the mountain monastery has to be next to a mountain? If not, its an odd choice, if so its a major nerf since mountains are hard to find.

Joeseons UA is a bit odd, Sejongs UA is perfect for a science based civ and I feel liek you deviated a bit too much, like, production from tile improvements? Weird. Also, the hwacha being strong on defense is super weird, since the Hwacha would have been rubbish against a massed attack - its an artillery piece, and the vanilla applcation of that (gr8 against units, naut so much against cities) was way more reflective. Seweon is, again, odd. Production over science? For sejong? I don't get it.

Middle Joseon UA has too many bonuses man, and the righteous army seems totally superflous, why not just generate free units? Does an AI controlled unit have any benefit? You can't order it to do stuff so it might just end up messing up your battle plans, I'd find it annoying. Also I feel like the UA should be more focussed on naval warfare, as of now it feels like the naval bit was just tacked on at the end. I love both UUs, perfek.

Now that you mention, it would be fun to have a civ that cannot gain faith through conventional means and must earn it somehow, but this is not the time for that.

Well... [brainstorming intensifies]

Samoa​

Leader: Tamafaiga
UA: Malie Toa, Malie Tau
When a unit destroys a non-barbarian enemy unit, the Capital and the city in which that unit was trained generate 1 faith per turn, increasing to +2 faith per kill if the unit is level 5 or higher, the faith generation stacks with every kill. If that unit is killed in battle, that faith generation ends but the total experience of that unit is instantly turned into culture.

UB: Tufuga ta Tatau (Replaces Shrine)
The Tufuga ta Tatau is automatically built in all conquered cities and the Capital, unlike the shrine it replaces. More importantly, all faith generating buildings or wonders in a city with a tufuga ta tatau do not generate faith, instead, their faith yield is added to newly trained units as experience. Furthermore, units trained in a city with a tufuga ta tatau receive a random 'Tatau' promotion*.

UU: Toa (Replaces Swordsman)
The Toa is slightly stronger than the Swordsman it replaces and receives the unique promotion 'Headhunter' which causes all units adjacent to the Toa to receive -10% combat strength for 3 turns whenever the Toa kills an enemy unit. When trained, the Toa instantly generates faith equal to 25% of its experience.

Tatau Promotions
Tatau Ta Aeto - Unit may attack again if it kills an enemy unit, though this second attack has -25% power.
Tatau Ta Gata - Enemy units attacked by this unit continue to take damage for three turns after being attacked.
Tatua Ta Mumua - This unit receives no movement point cost when embarking or disembarking and does 20 damage to all adjacent units when moving from sea to land.
Tatua Ta Manuki - This unit moves at double rate through jungle and generates double experience when attacking units in jungle or forest.

thoughts guys?

 

[DoctorMcGann]

One thing, not on design, but while I knew Bionicle had heavy Polynesian influence, I didn't know Toa was a Samoan word.

On design: I like the idea, but that could be seriously overpowered. It's not hard to get levels on your units. Or is it just faith per kill? The word 'generate' confuses me.

 

[Zantonius Hamm]

One thing, not on design, but while I knew Bionicle had heavy Polynesian influence, I didn't know Toa was a Samoan word.

 

[DoctorMcGann]

Not sure how to interpret that...

 

[Hoop Thrower]

For one I think it's the most creative take on the "Generate Faith from kills" idea.

 

[GPuzzle]

Am I the only person that noticed that Karl XII of Sweden is the leader of Samoa in that and thought that was weird as hell?

 

[Zantonius Hamm]

No, I thought that was weird as well.

 

[DoctorMcGann]

Same, at first I wondered if it was a different Karl...