Design: Traits

[Sisonpyh]

Orcs inflamed with bloodlust are not known for their capacity for rational thinking

I thought Jonus was smart though? I assume Orcs are fairly religious as well since Jonus is getting the spirtual trait. Why would they raze a Holy City of their adopted relligion?

 

[Corlindale]

Why would they raze a Holy City of their adopted relligion?

Good point. Perhaps an exception could be made for this as well. But in general I think the trait is a nice way to balance the orcs and their military might.

 

[Sisonpyh]

Good point. Perhaps an exception could be made for this as well. But in general I think the trait is a nice way to balance the orcs and their military might.

What makes the Orc's military so mighty though? They have undercosted cities and units, right?

Thats nice early game, since you can expand without Barbarians bugging you. But it can also be a bad thing since their units won't be as experienced as the other civs. Once Mid and late game roll around, they are stuck with -10% research and Barbs are all but a distant memory anyway.

 

[loki1232]

Yeah we'll make exceptions with their holy city and in a city that they founded, only all of the non-orc's will die.

 

[woodelf]

Any exceptions to neighboring cities that may have 25-50% Orc culture in their lands? Why would they raze them? I know Orc Culture may be oxymoronish.

 

[loki1232]

Any exceptions to neighboring cities that may have 25-50% Orc culture in their lands? Why would they raze them? I know Orc Culture may be oxymoronish.

Good point. What if scorched earth was changed to instead kill all pop that are non-orc. Holy cities of your religion are saved but with only one pop left.

 

[Chalid]

Ha i had exactly the same idea Loki. Must be a good one.

 

[woodelf]

Ha i had exactly the same idea Loki. Must be a good one.

It must be great if I was involved, right? Guys? Hello....

 

[Chalid]

Loki i think i heard something. Did you it two?

 

[loki1232]

Just sisonpyh.

 

[Kael]

I think this sounds good. Thanks Loki, Chalid and... umm.... Sisonpyh.

 

[woodelf]

Start the day with abuse, end it with abuse.

This being married (twice) has prepared me well for the world...

 

[CurtisC]

Hmm, thought of this last night, maybe agnostic could get a +%GP birthrate, based on pop. Since they will never be able to benefit from pacifism, the most awesome civic a phil/ind leader could get, and, until you get free religion and or monarchy it will be pretty hard to get your population up.

a +5% bonus in each city for each pop would be cool. Early game this would be like 25%, pretty modest, but when you get to late game it would be huge +100% at pop 20. That may be too high, but considering how many GP the grigori would normally produce in a game it may not be out of line. Maybe you could cap it at 50 or 100%.

Or, you could just give them a flat +GP% at the outset.

Also, once you introduce the crusades, the grigori should have some sort of weird diplomatic reaction to the crusading civ.

 

[CurtisC]

wait is this the wrong thread? (moved)

 

[darkonion]

Spoiler Previous Post :

maybe (just an idea) agnostic should:
1. allow no state religion

...maybe even have it so that it enables the "free religion" civic wouldnt be a bad idea...

2. allow no spead of religion

...i like this cause if i found a majority of the religions as the grigori, then other civs have no basis to get better units...

3. +2 science and/or culture per Great Adventurer

...this would be interesting becasue it would FORCE the ai to build GA and adds a reason to make them in the first place (aside from their diverity) and so that cheaters (people who use the world-builder in single-player) wont get the bonuses of the GAs' they gave themselves...

4. cannot accuire Great Prophets

...this is because they're agnostic. they wouldnt get a religious person if they have no religion...
that's it...

...i also think the grigori should beable to found the cult of dragons because its a religion that you cannot have as a state religion...

EDIT: its a cult... not a religion... thats why they should beable to found it as well...

everyones read this and agrees? cause i got no responce to this...

 

[Corlindale]

Originally Posted by darkonion
maybe (just an idea) agnostic should:
1. allow no state religion

...maybe even have it so that it enables the "free religion" civic wouldnt be a bad idea...

It already is that way. And free religion is essentially a way to say that religion shall not be a dominating force in people's lives.

2. allow no spead of religion

...i like this cause if i found a majority of the religions as the grigori, then other civs have no basis to get better units...

I think that would be VERY out of character for the Grigori. The whole point is that they strive NOT to found any religions."Hoarding" religions would not make sense for them.

3. +2 science and/or culture per Great Adventurer

...this would be interesting becasue it would FORCE the ai to build GA and adds a reason to make them in the first place (aside from their diverity) and so that cheaters (people who use the world-builder in single-player) wont get the bonuses of the GAs' they gave themselves...

Why is that needed? GA's are good to have as it is, and I've seen the AI use them as well. I'm not sure I understand your point about cheaters.

4. cannot accuire Great Prophets

...this is because they're agnostic. they wouldnt get a religious person if they have no religion...
that's it...

That makes sense. But they rarely get them anyway, they rarely if ever get to use priest specialists, and they do not have much incentive to build the religious wonders.

...i also think the grigori should beable to found the cult of dragons because its a religion that you cannot have as a state religion...

EDIT: its a cult... not a religion... thats why they should beable to found it as well...

That doesn't really make sense. Just because it isn't a religion, they should be able to found it? The Cult is unique to the Kuriotates and the Sheaim, do you think the Grigori should have some special affinity with dragons too? Otherwise I can't see why it should be allowed, the Cult worships a higher being, just like the religions, and Cassiel would be opposed to that as well.

 

[darkonion]

Spoiler Corlindale's Post :

...

It already is that way. And free religion is essentially a way to say that religion shall not be a dominating force in people's lives.

...

I think that would be VERY out of character for the Grigori. The whole point is that they strive NOT to found any religions."Hoarding" religions would not make sense for them.

...

Why is that needed? GA's are good to have as it is, and I've seen the AI use them as well. I'm not sure I understand your point about cheaters.

...

That makes sense. But they rarely get them anyway, they rarely if ever get to use priest specialists, and they do not have much incentive to build the religious wonders.

...

That doesn't really make sense. Just because it isn't a religion, they should be able to found it? The Cult is unique to the Kuriotates and the Sheaim, do you think the Grigori should have some special affinity with dragons too? Otherwise I can't see why it should be allowed, the Cult worships a higher being, just like the religions, and Cassiel would be opposed to that as well.

im just trying to throw ideas out there because the grigori are at a major fault... FfH is a game CENTERED around RELIGION and PROMOTIONS... they have ONE OF THE TWO... we need to balance them out with those who CAN have a state religion...

maybe you can have it so that agnostic also does the EXACT SAME STATS as free religion, except, they can still DOUBLE THOSE STAT UPS by enabling free religion when they get... what is it??? liberty i think... i believe that will balance them out enough... just keep what i said before EXCEPT the part about being able to found the cult of dragons...

 

[phoulishwan]

The way I see the Grigori are like the Polynesians in a game of Civ III - DYP Mod - on the Real World map, they start off at a distinct disadvantage and it's up to you the player to make them into a Civ to be remembered. It's not easy but with perseverance and some very careful planning it can be done. I'll have to try them out some time soon as I don't have the hands on experience with them yet.

 

[Corlindale]

I've played a few games with the Grigori, and have not found them particularly underpowered. Adventurers are very powerful in the early game, and they make great mages later, because you don't have to wait long for their xp. And I think it's very nice to have early freedom in regards to research, rather than thinking about going towards a certain religion all the time.

They do have certain issues, mainly with keeping their people happy. But the freedom of being able to select any religion-specific civic with Free Religion is a nice help(assuming it is in now, I haven't played Grigori recently).

 

[Chammadai]

I've never tried to turn my adventurers into adepts thinkings that adepts gain xp anyway... Maybe that's my main fault, but I still find Grigori underpowered. And it's not the matter of happiness but rather of culture - while other civ's city can build normally up to three temples (from which often at least one offers quicker making of new soldiers) the Grigori have nothing to make up for it. And it takes some time to make it to Liberalism, as you can rush it since you need lots of other techs to stay alive. Grigori just need a building that gives them extra culture and happiness - and it would be best if it was somwhere between the first three religiones and the two later ones, ex. Education, that it was made availible.