Destinations!

I'm currently planning my trip abroad for 2022 - to Canada. I don't really want to have to figure out any remaining Covid restrictions overseas, so choosing one country that's close to home seemed like the way to do it. Plus it'll be a bit cooler in the summer, and I've never been farther into Canada than Windsor, so it's time to change that.

Also trying to figure out a city base for a trip with friends, likely involving a beach component. The leading candidates are Savannah and New York City. Yeah, we haven't narrowed it down much yet. Probably for August. I'm kind of leaning towards Savannah, which I've heard is a cool city to visit and would be right by the beach, but I was 19 when I went to New York and didn't have much of a budget and the friends I went with didn't wind up being lifelong friends, so I may be underestimating it. Right now though, it doesn't sound any more appealing than going back to Chicago or Philadelphia or Boston. I guess I'm curious why it's supposed to be the best place to go, beyond Broadway? Or is New York City more the happening place to live, rather than visit?
 
I'm currently planning my trip abroad for 2022 - to Canada. I don't really want to have to figure out any remaining Covid restrictions overseas, so choosing one country that's close to home seemed like the way to do it. Plus it'll be a bit cooler in the summer, and I've never been farther into Canada than Windsor, so it's time to change that.

Where in Canada are you thinking? If Toronto, Montreal, and/or Ottawa, I will probably be able to provide tips.
 
Where in Canada are you thinking? If Toronto, Montreal, and/or Ottawa, I will probably be able to provide tips.

Smaller cities in Ontario, actually. The following cities are currently in the running: Leamington (and Point Pelee National Park/Pelee Island), Guelph, potentially Kitchener/Waterloo, Goderich, and Niagara and that area in general. I'll probably choose two of the three areas and spend about 3 days in each. With a focus on outdoor activities, mostly outdoor during the day, in town in the evening, unless it's rainy all day or stormy, then I'll be looking for indoor alternatives.

Toronto is definitely somewhere I want to go someday, but seeing Niagara Falls sounds more exciting right now. I've been to Buffalo but didn't see the Falls, so it seems like time to change that. Two specific questions though:

- What are the Canadian cuisines that I have to try in that part of Canada? My knowledge of Canadian cuisine is roughly butter tarts, which I hope to find, poutine, which I'd expect to find in Quebec, and nanaimo bars, which I'd expect to find in BC but not sure about Ontario. Beyond that, I'm less sure what's more uniquely Canadian/unlikely to be found south of the border.
- How important is brushing up on my French before a Quebec trip? At one point I was fully conversational in French, but that is no longer the case. I'd also like to do a Quebec trip some day, but the longer distance and uncertainty about how much I'll be judged for my now rather poor French are somewhat of a concern.
 
Leamington (and Point Pelee National Park/Pelee Island)

Point Pelee is def worth seeing! I camped at the nearby Wheatly Park over a decade ago.. There's nothing special about Wheatly Park other that it's a provincial park and might have had the closest nearby camping options (but don't quote me on that either). From what I remember we drove into Point Pelee National Park the next morning and parked at a parking lot past the gate (where you pay).. then walked all the way to the point. I can't remember how far we drove and how far we walked though.. but the park has a decent amount of trails and you might find the plants, animals, and geology/terrain interesting. It definitely stands out a bit as being a tad different than what I'm used to living around these parts, even visiting the great lakes multiple times a year. Some of the trails miiiight take you on sand btw, I can't really remember. There's def. sand at the end, right at the tip. It's really interesting to see the two bodies of water come together like that. Good pick of a destination!

Guelph, potentially Kitchener/Waterloo

There's nothing worth seeing in Guelph, but I say that as somebody who went to school in KW :lol: So, Guelph was always dismissed as the nearby "tiny brother" that had a university not worth attending and who cares what else. Don't discount Guelph on that alone of course, but it doesn't really get a "stuff worth seeing" type rep. I could be wrong due to my inherent KW bias, so do your research anyhow!

The nearby Elora Gorge is my favourite part of the world that also happens to be near Guelph. You can go whitewater tubing there, and can camp near the Grand River as well.. There's some really nice scenery in the area, from what I remember.. including jumping-off-cliffs-and-into-water options, if you're into that sort of thing. I also remember liking Elora (the town), which is right nearby.. but I can not remember anything at all about it.. so.. I think it looks nice at least, but I can't remember why I have a positive memory of it other than that.

Guelph and KW probably have other nearby outdoorsy options.. as the landscape near the Grand River & the Niagara escarpment tends to be interesting at least, and at times a bit on the spectacular.

Kitchener-Waterloo itself.. I lived here so I could be biased as well.. but I can't really think of one thing I'd recommend to do/see there either. I mean, there's nice parts of town, I like Waterloo Park & Silver Lake.. but it's not a real destination in itself. Uptown Waterloo is supposed to be nicer, and it was kind of quaint when I lived there.. in a good way.. just with not enough to really attract people yet.. So I might look up that.. Downtown Kitchener always also felt kind of average. Like London, Ont downtown but smaller, sort of.. And London Ont downtown is def not worth visiting. Victoria Park downtown (Kitchener) is nice too, w/ the lake.. Other than that it might just be historical buildings and stuff like that. So it could very well interest you, but if so then you could probably find even more interesting little towns nearby.

St. Jacobs is just north of KW, it has a popular market that might be worth looking up. There is a heavy Mennonite presence in the area, I believe the Mennonites who sell their food & wares are one of the highlights of this market.. I've never actually been there though.. but have eaten really good pepper jam that was bought there


Goderich has a nice 'small town' downtown and nearby beach/lakeside options.. I stayed at a cottage near here about 6 years ago.. Loved it! There's probably a whole bunch of outdoorsy stuff to do around here.

Niagara and that area in general.

From what I remember of Niagara Falls (the city) is that the only part worth visiting is basically a huge tourist trap. It's definitely worth walking through once sort of thing, don't get me wrong.. But expect a tacky tourist-targeted almost Vegas-like experience in this part of the city.. The best view of the falls is a short distance away from that, from what I remember.. but things could have changed. I took the boat that takes you near the falls once and would def. recommend that experience.. although these memories are teenage and should be taken with a grain of salt..

These days when anyone I know (who lives in ontario) goes to Niagara Falls, they stay closer near Niagara on the Lake & do vinyard tours.. you can bike around, drink wine, stay at a nice guesthouse.. or whatever.. it's that sort of romcom vibe. Some people also go to the casino overlooking the falls, which has really nice views of the falls as well.. Other than the things mentioned, I don't think anybody comes to Niagara Falls to do anything else pretty much, except for potential hiking options in the area.. and likely other outdoorsy activities as well. The southern terminus of the Bruce Trail is just north of the city I think.. This trail runs all the way north along the Canadian shield & the Niagara escarpment to the Bruce peninsula, via places like the Elora Gorge, etc. The best parts of this trail are in the north, though, I know very little of the parts in the south.. although Hamilton is supposed to be near some fun sections.. Having said that, nobody should ever have to visit Hamilton. It's a bit of an industrial city, or at least used to be. It doesn't have the best reputation in terms of being visiteable. Could be some bias on my part here too.. Hamilton is basically right in between Toronto and Niagara Falls. Some people will drive here, and park near a GO train station.. The most popular station for that seems to be Aldershot, just north of Hamilton. It's relatively easy to get to, it's central to the GO Rail network, you can park there for relatively cheap (I think), and jump on the commuter GO rail & bus network and visit any part of the extended Greater Toronto Area, incl. Niagara Falls. The Go train also runs to downtown Kitchener. It's probably not going to be good for you for your trip, but it could come in handy.. I'm not really sure, so I thought I'd include it so it'd be on your radar. It's a relatively cheap form of rail transportation that covers a decent geographic area.


Toronto is definitely somewhere I want to go someday, but seeing Niagara Falls sounds more exciting right now. I've been to Buffalo but didn't see the Falls, so it seems like time to change that.

IMO you could stay at that fancy casino hotel right by the falls, for those views.. but even so you'd probably get bored of the touristy part of Niagara Falls after a day.. It would def. make sense to HQ there for a couple days if you had other nearby outdoorsy type targets already picked out.. or if you spent a day and a half visiting vinyards and drinking wines & ciders. That boat is worth looking into.. But Niagara Falls might honestly be a better day trip sort of destination. You could ride in via a train, or with a car.. walk through the town, go see the falls from all the best vantage points, maybe visit that casino, maybe eat at the restaurant there (with the amazing views).. maybe get on that boat.. then you can head back to your car, or wherever. That's just my opinion, but IMO unless you have more stuff planned in the area, such as a vinyard tour.. or some hiking trails.. it might make sense to stay somewhere else. The Go rail/bus network might give you some options there (You could in theory take the GO train to Niagara from Kitchener, but that might go to Union station in Toronto First, you'd have to check.. It might be a long journey and not worth your time)

Toronto is honestly "just another world city". By that I mean that.. If you've been to Chicago, New York, London.. Toronto is basically sort of like that, if you squint. There's definitely some unique & interesting things worth seeing in the GTA, but if you've ever taken in that world city vibe.. you'll basically find that in Toronto. It's amazing for food, quite diverse, and you can find all the amenities you want.. But if you're more into outdoorsy things and smaller & more unique towns, then skipping Toronto makes sense.

Other things I'd recommend that are sort of near some of the places you are already interested in:

- The Lion's Head Lookout point part of the Bruce Trail.. is the BEST part of the Bruce Trail. The hike to & from the lookout point itself is the best part.. but it is possible to make this into a longer hiking experience, if you continue south along the peninsula. There's lots of epic views along the way. Can either make this into a 2-3hr, 4-6hr, or 9-12hr hiking trip, and end up @ the same carpark at the end. There's also a pub (Lions Head Pub?) there that used to have better food, but.. still has pretty good food. All the hikers I know go there to eat after they hike nearby.. it's sort of a tradition. Not as good these days, but still always hits the spot each and very time. The town itself doesn't really have much to it.. But you do get to see the Lion's Head peninsula, and that's a cool sight too.

- Tobermory might or might not interest you... If you end up venturing as far north as Lion's Head, then Tobermory is 50km north of that.. That's where the northern terminus of the Bruce Trail is.. There is a grotto near there definitely worth seeing, and lots of trails, a couple parks, an da ferry that can take you to Manitoulin island, which is pretty damn cool... although.. You'd need a day to really "do" Manitoulin island. We drove around it and did a bunch of hikes along the way.. Two thumbs up, but we started our day at 6am or something stupid like that and were on the last ferry back.. Manitoulin island is where I had one of the best tasting fish dishes ever.. In a small fishermans town in the north-western part of the island.. Restaurant right by the water, catch of the day.. HOLY CRAP SO GOOD. I think it was @ Gore Bay. But yeah.. this is pretty far from places like KW. Although if you end up in Goderich and continue driving north to check out Kincardine, Port Elgin, Sauble Beach, etc. you'll be heading in that direction..

Stratford is a nice little town near here that might interest you.. or not.. I'm not really sure, but it's popular as a getaway destination. They put on many Shakespeare plays, the old town is quite nice, etc.

- What are the Canadian cuisines that I have to try in that part of Canada? My knowledge of Canadian cuisine is roughly butter tarts, which I hope to find, poutine, which I'd expect to find in Quebec, and nanaimo bars, which I'd expect to find in BC but not sure about Ontario.

My recommendation is to look up the specialities in each town you travel to. If you end up finding a place that claims it specializes in poutine (or has a reputation for having good poutine), then try poutine there. I would avoid fast food poutine, and chain restaurant poutine can be decent.. but it can also be suspiciously close to fast food poutine. I would look up some reviews to see what people are recommending, although those can be deceiving too.. But if a decent amount of reviews talk about the poutine @ some pub you're at, and the web has articles about poutine at this place, then it might very well be worth trying. But yeah, that's how I would approach it.. Keep a list of stereotypically Canadian dishes and if you come across a place that has a reputation for being good at one of them.. eat it.

Bagels are supposedly good in some parts of Canada, but I'm not really a big fan of bagels so can't comment much... BUT.. if some mom n pop type place advertises the best bagels in Canada, maybe buy a bagel there. I'm not a big fan, but at the right place bagels can be delicious..

You have to eat something with maple syrup on it. Maybe pancakes? Or waffles? Find a place that specializes in that sort of thing.

Smoked meat is a montreal thing, but I've had good smoked meat in Ontario too.. So.. if you come across a place that seems to specialize in smoked meat to an acceptable standard.. it might be worth trying.

Donairs are a Halifax thing I think, but def. worth trying if you find a place that knows how to make them right.

You gotta have a Caesar, which is like a Bloody Mary, and basically tastes the same, but a tiny bit better. If it has bacon in it, then they are probably doing it right. If it has montreal steak spice on the rim, then that is great news, but it might be a bit spicy. The spicier the better, but you don't want too spicy either..

Try some ketchup chips. The redder the better. Not sure which brand I'd recommend. All dressed chips are really good too.

A lot of touristy type places will also sell Beaver Tails. They are just like Elephant Ears. Seems like a Canadian type spin on things, and they are usually delicious..

A Tourtiere is a meat pie sort of thing, from Quebec. No idea where you'd find a good one in Ontario, but it should be on your radar

Any town right on the lake will have a decent amount of good seafood options.. Get something local, like a freshly caught Perch or something..

Ice Wine from Niagara region should prob be on the list

The most important food tip of all: AVOID TIM HORTON'S, unless you are there to poop. They have horrible coffee and stale donuts. Some of the sandwiches might be ok. This is also a good source of bottled water, if you're in a pinch. Tims' are everywhere and will usually be priced a bit cheaper than convenience store bottled water.. who will sometimes charge you an extra % if you're paying w/ a cc. So if it's a hot day and you just want some cold water and a poop, Tim Horton's can be a great safehaven. But for anything else, stay away..

- How important is brushing up on my French before a Quebec trip?

If you're going to Montreal you don't have to speak any French at all. The further you venture out from Montreal's city borders, the more French you have to know.. Quebec City is touristy and you'll prob be fine, but the expectations there for tourists to speak French are a bit higher than in Montreal. That's a very rough guide though..

Unfortunately I don't have time to proofread this novel of a post right now.. but if you have any questions about any of the above, just let me know
 
I can't imagine thinking of a trip to Canada and then picking Guelph and Kitchener as the destinations. :lol:

Niagara is a tourist trap, but I found it very charming during the summer months. Clifton Hill has a particular smell and atmosphere to it that is difficult to forget. It has been 13 years since I was there, but a lot of it was affordable then. Great place to people-watch, to just walk around and take in the sights and sounds. The food scene is iffy, but you aren't going there for fine dining anyway. Falls Manor is a great place on Lundy's Lane to eat. Lundy's Lane is also the hotel/motel circuit in Niagara. Lots and lots of cheap lodging there.

If you are into amusement parks, I have fond memories of Marineland. Animal welfare, though, is dodgy, and you may not morally find it acceptable to support.

Really, if you're going to be in the Guelph/Kitchener-Waterloo/Toronto area, you might as well go a bit more north to Collingwood. It's two hours, three from Guelph/KW, but more impressive to nature types, and the beach there is very nice.

ETA: Not seeing the falls from the Buffalo side is fine. The American side of Niagara is really lackluster, and pretty much no Americans bother with it themselves. The Canadian side is where it's at.
 
Wow, thanks for all the great info! Those add a lot of options, most of which I hadn't heard about. For some reason I thought most of our Canadian posters lived in the Prairie Provinces and spent their free time wandering around Peru or Mt. Everest or Thailand, but that's a wealth of information about Ontario!

I have found I tend to prefer smaller town/outdoorsy areas to big cities, and like you said I've been finding cities to be a bit same-y to a fair degree, at least in North America (the architecture in old cities in Europe can win me over, Prague for example). I want to make it to Toronto some day, but haven't been hankering to go to a big city (some of that might also be latent skittishness around large crowds from the pandemic, which should recede with time).

It's probably worth mentioning how Guelph wound up on my radar! :lol: My primary hobby currently is cycling, so a common travel planning tactic is find an area with good bike trails (off road, nice and relaxing), and then see what else is in the area. There happens to be a bicycle trail between Guelph and Goderich, which got fully remodeled in 2020 and looks like it's probably worth checking out. Kitchener-Waterloo is close enough to Guelph that I thought maybe it would make sense as a base, but I'd been waffling on Guelph/KW vs Goderich as a base area... now I'm leaning towards Goderich.

Somewhat similarly with Niagara, they seem to have a pretty good biking network, basically a loop that uses the Welland Canal to go north-south in the west, then goes over to Niagara-on-the-Lake and down along the river and past the falls. It seemed like it would be a cool way to see the falls, and I could always stop for a while at the falls. I had a few friends who went to the Falls several years ago, and they did make it a day trip (which was a bit crazy including the driving up and back from here in one day), one of them won something like $6 at the casino. Honestly I have no desire to go to Vegas, and have no interest in casinos, so the falls/people watching would be the appeal, and the pretty decent bicycling. Might have to see if any of the vineyards are on the trail, I saw there's a ton of them in Essex (south of Windsor), but hadn't read about the Niagara-on-the-Lake ones. I'd get bored spending a whole day at a winery (I'm more of a cider/beer drinker), but it would be a nice mid-afternoon place to stop.

Based on the bike network, Port Colborne looked like a potential place to make as a base, as all the trails meet there, including the one that goes west. But I haven't fully checked the logistics. I'll take a look at Clifton Hill and see if that would make more sense.

I'd been looking for something hiking-related to switch up the cycling, so the Bruce Trail is great to know about. One of the big questions is going to be how far north do I want to drive, since each hour farther north requires another hour driving south later on? Even before all these new ideas, I was concluding Ontario was going to be a multiple-trip destination, so concentrating the trip in a few areas rather than driving all over the province seems to make sense. If I were going to, say, Poland, I might not ever be back, so trying to hit all the highlights would make some sense. But I could go to Ontario every year. So it probably makes sense to concentrate the Collingwood/Lion's Head/Tobermony area items in one trip.

Thanks for the food recs, too! Ketchup chips... indeed I've never seen them stateside. We've got Korean style honey butter chips now, but the ketchup ones haven't made it here yet. I love the Tim's warning. We have them here too; my parents' neighbor was wearing a Tim Horton's shirt when I visited the other day (as far as I know he isn't Canadian). Yeah, they aren't the best donuts, local places are always the best for those. I don't drink coffee, but was surprised to learn Tim's tea selection is better than I'd expected when I ducked in there during a storm last month (i.e. they actually have several varieties to choose from, not just generic "black tea" like a lot of places). I tried their lunch once years ago, the main thing I remember is the chili didn't beat Wendy's chili. We'd still go to the one near the hockey stadium when I worked downtown though, it was the only place with donuts within walking distance so stale or otherwise, they won by default.
 
If you're not into casinos but still want to "win" something, Clifton Hill in Niagara has a place called the Midway that is really just a ginormous arcade. Kids love it, if you're bringing any of those along. It is also next to a big Ferris wheel that overlooks the city, and across the street from a bunch of amenities like haunted houses, clubs, souvenir shops, yada yada. I found the Hill in general to be very accessible. You can cross it in 20-30 minutes, and it's fairly trivial to backtrack even when it's insanely crowded. I suppose doing it as a day trip is reasonable, but a lot of the wonder of the place is in its nighttime scene, IMO. The falls get lit up, and there is a pretty great fireworks show over the falls too during the summer (though I don't know if they still do that... I live in Vancouver now, and the fireworks here were canceled by COVID, so it seems plausible they were canceled there too).
 
This is a general food recommendation for Americans: If you eat fast food and enjoy it, you will be doing yourself a favour if you eat Dairy Queen and A&W while in Canada. They are different from their American counterparts, and pretty much everyone I know, including myself, finds the Canadian versions VERY superior over the American. I normally don't recommend fast food as a food recommendation for tourists, but I find that one is usually a hit for Americans.
 
A friend of mine has hiked sections of the Bruce trail closer to places like Kitchener.. although still maybe an hour+ north from there?.. Maybe Blue Mountain.There's a bunch of side trails that connect to it.. and side loops.. So worthy sections exist elsewhere and not just all north on the Bruce peninsula! I just don't know so much about them myself.

Here's a nice map of all the parts of the trail, maybe it will help
 
Paid my deposit for a 2023 safari trip to Tanzania for observing a slice of the great Wildebeest Migration.
 
Paid my deposit for a 2023 safari trip to Tanzania for observing a slice of the great Wildebeest Migration.

What time are you going, if you're willing to share? We are still hopeful for an August 2023 ascent of Kilimanjaro (and a safari afterwards, also Zanzibar).. No idea if my knee will allow me to do a trip like that, but we'll see when the time comes

I also today realized I have almost $1,000 in points to use on a flight.. any flight.. or any sort of touristy activity. I'm considering flying somewhere this year, just to get away. maybe Portugal? I'm only starting to look at flights now, to see if there's anything for $1k or so from Toronto. Willing to go anywhere on the planet (except Russia or Egypt)
 
Why not Egypt?

In every single "Which country did you have a bad time visiting?" sort of thread I've ever read, Egypt is usually #1 or at least top 2. You can see an example here, just do a CTRL-F for "Egypt"

Reading other people's travel experiences is a big part of my research, and Egypt just doesn't sound like a very welcoming place (for western tourists at least). I have read some positive experiences from there as well, but the vast majority are not only negative but overly so. I do want to see the pyramids one day, but it's just not high enough on my list to overcome all the negative things I've read about the country.
 
Okay I see what you mean, it does seem to have a lot of the bad side of mass tourism. I usually fly through Egypt these days to Iraq because Egypt Air has cheap New York - Cairo - Erbil flights.

The layover is usually several hours and they put you up in a hotel which is nice and there’s a few hours to see a bit of Cairo but that’s all I’ve done so far so I haven’t seen much of the country.
 
Yeah it just seems that if you are dressed like a western tourist you are probably not going to have a good time. Everybody seems to say get a guide or some sort of escort.. It seems that it's mainly women who have problems there, but plenty of male tourists seem to be reporting being incessantly accosted for money as well. I didn't have problems like that anywhere I've travelled, not even Nepal or Cambodia (which are fairly poor overall)
 
What time are you going, if you're willing to share? We are still hopeful for an August 2023 ascent of Kilimanjaro (and a safari afterwards, also Zanzibar).. No idea if my knee will allow me to do a trip like that, but we'll see when the time comes

I also today realized I have almost $1,000 in points to use on a flight.. any flight.. or any sort of touristy activity. I'm considering flying somewhere this year, just to get away. maybe Portugal? I'm only starting to look at flights now, to see if there's anything for $1k or so from Toronto. Willing to go anywhere on the planet (except Russia or Egypt)
My 8 day safari is scheduled for July 10. It begins and ends at Kilo airport. Nothing else is set. My current thinking is 3 days in Zanzibar prior to settle into the time change and a maybe on days aft4e4r to explore around Nairobi. I have a "maybe" companion who has not yet decided if they can afford the safari plus travel. So I'm somewhat flexible. I planned the July date to take in the anticipated river crossings of the herds.
 
Last edited:
In every single "Which country did you have a bad time visiting?" sort of thread I've ever read, Egypt is usually #1 or at least top 2. You can see an example here, just do a CTRL-F for "Egypt"

Reading other people's travel experiences is a big part of my research, and Egypt just doesn't sound like a very welcoming place (for western tourists at least). I have read some positive experiences from there as well, but the vast majority are not only negative but overly so. I do want to see the pyramids one day, but it's just not high enough on my list to overcome all the negative things I've read about the country.
As a counter anecdote it was about my best holiday destination. The bus system in Cairo was difficult, but people were really friendly helping me, and Dahab was cool and chilled out with a great coral reef. At the pyramids there was a certain amount of pressure from people to buy stuff or have a camel ride or whatever, but nothing like Morocco and that did not worry me overly. I experienced none of that in Dahab even though the poverty was more overt there. Really cheap as well.

The current political situation would be more of a disincentive ATM, but more from a "I do not want to support them" rather than how it would directly affect me.
My 8 day safari is scheduled for July 10. It begins and ends at Kilo airport. Nothing else is set. My current thinking is 3 days in Zanzibar prior to settle into the time change and a maybe on days aft4e4r to explore around Nairobi. I have a "maybe" companion who has not yet decided if they can afford the safari plus travel. So I'm somewhat flexible. I planned the July date to take in the anticipated river crossings of the herds.
Kenya would be much higher on my list of countries to avoid because of threat to my life. I hope you are having a good look at where is more safe.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom