[Development] Canonical City Location Suggestions

[Leoreth]

Don't make things hard for yourself. Just use Tortoise Git -> Switch/Checkout to switch to the map branch.

 

[Bautos42]

I started by placing the capitals/spawn locations. These are the locations.

I agree with the starting positions less two exceptions:
1.) Cordoba should be one south (I think a landlocked Cordoba would not enhance the gameplay of the Moors.
2.) Washington should be one south, with New York one NE of that location and Boston 2 NE of New York. It is the only way of having all three cities in semi-correct positions without making Boston completely useless, and having all three of those cities on the map should be at least possible.

 

[Steb]

Here are some comments, mostly based on Merijn's suggestions:

- Orduqent (Ordukent/Suyab) is roughly just west of the lake that's surrounded by those mountains. So I'd put it on the plains tile just 1SW of Merijn's suggestion.
- Montreal should indeed be 1E
- Mecca could be moved 1E, as it's not a coastal city. It would still be coastal in game terms, but less (and its current location would be called Jeddah)
- Jerusalem would be placed 2S of Sur I assume?
- I feel Glasgow and Edinburgh are a pair of important cities that cannot coexist but should be emphasized equally, like Hangzhou/Shanghai.
- (Off-topic, but I hope the orange color of the islands in the Mediterranean is not final? I find it quite jarring. I'd rather have them green if another color is not possible.)

 

[TJDowling]

I agree with the starting positions less two exceptions:
1.) Cordoba should be one south (I think a landlocked Cordoba would not enhance the gameplay of the Moors.
2.) Washington should be one south, with New York one NE of that location and Boston 2 NE of New York. It is the only way of having all three cities in semi-correct positions without making Boston completely useless, and having all three of those cities on the map should be at least possible.

Boston IS useless though.

 

[BarbarianX]

I agree with the starting positions less two exceptions:
1.) Cordoba should be one south (I think a landlocked Cordoba would not enhance the gameplay of the Moors.
2.) Washington should be one south, with New York one NE of that location and Boston 2 NE of New York. It is the only way of having all three cities in semi-correct positions without making Boston completely useless, and having all three of those cities on the map should be at least possible.

If the problem is landlocking Moorish Iberia, one could settle Cartagena.

 

[merijn_v1]

Here are some comments, mostly based on Merijn's suggestions:

- Orduqent (Ordukent/Suyab) is roughly just west of the lake that's surrounded by those mountains. So I'd put it on the plains tile just 1SW of Merijn's suggestion.
- Montreal should indeed be 1E
- Mecca could be moved 1E, as it's not a coastal city. It would still be coastal in game terms, but less (and its current location would be called Jeddah)
- Jerusalem would be placed 2S of Sur I assume?
- I feel Glasgow and Edinburgh are a pair of important cities that cannot coexist but should be emphasized equally, like Hangzhou/Shanghai.
- (Off-topic, but I hope the orange color of the islands in the Mediterranean is not final? I find it quite jarring. I'd rather have them green if another color is not possible.)

- As I said, I don't have any clue for the exact location of Orduqent.
- I based the location of Montreal on the bending of the river. You're right that it should be where the river meet eachother.
- I know taht Mecca isn't coastal and I considered it placing 1E as well. But I think this tile is better for gameplay reason. And the distance between Mecca and the coast is IMO small enough to justify Mecca on the tile I placed it.
- That is where I would place it indeed. Sur could be placed 1NE for gameplay reasons. I placed it on this tile because I think it's the most geographically accurate one.

2.) Washington should be one south, with New York one NE of that location and Boston 2 NE of New York. It is the only way of having all three cities in semi-correct positions without making Boston completely useless, and having all three of those cities on the map should be at least possible.

I placed Washington on that tile because I assumed that the river represents the Chesapeak Bay. Washington is in the middle of the length of that bay, so it my suggestion for the Washington tile.

 

[Leoreth]

(Off-topic, but I hope the orange color of the islands in the Mediterranean is not final? I find it quite jarring. I'd rather have them green if another color is not possible.)

I plan to reduce the colour saturation so that it looks more like the plains texture.

 

[Steb]

- As I said, I don't have any clue for the exact location of Orduqent.

I know, I'm telling you the correct location https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suyab

As for Mecca, what is the gameplay reason for placing it there? It's on the coast either way.

I like your proposed location for Sur, because it allows a second Phoenician city in their core.

 

[mysterious_stalker]

Spoiler Central Europe :

That's just a rough sketch. Might have overdone it a bit and not only included the essential locations but also extra ones that will rarely be founded or barely at all.
PS. I can't figure out how to delete or modify the signs I made there. Is there any way to do that?

 

[Leoreth]

While this is helpful please focus on the essential locations.

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

I agree with Leoreth. I'd try to put the least cities as possible as long as every single tile is within a city's fat cross.

Of those cities, I'd only keep:
-Vikings: Copenhague.
-Netherlands: Amsterdam, probably Brussels.
-Germany: Hamburg, Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich, Königsberg.
-Poland: Krakow (south), Warsaw, Gdansk, Riga, Tallinn.
-Austria: Vienna, Prague, Budapest.
-Russia: Kiev, Minsk.

I'll upload my map as soon as I figure out how to open it (first I'll follow Leoreth's advice if that works).

EDIT: It worked, thank you.

 

[Leoreth]

To give more direct feedback, most city locations make sense to me except Bratislava, it's weird to have it so far away from Vienna.

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

I finished putting many locations, including all of non-Russian Europe. How do I take a WB screenshot without the option windows?

Also, I hope you guys don't mind that the captions are yellow because I used Egypt.

 

[mysterious_stalker]

While this is helpful please focus on the essential locations.

Noted. It's a bit hard to decide what is essential sometimes, but I get it.

I agree with Leoreth. I'd try to put the least cities as possible as long as every single tile is within a city's fat cross.

Of those cities, I'd only keep:
-Vikings: Copenhague.
-Netherlands: Amsterdam, probably Brussels.
-Germany: Hamburg, Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich, Königsberg.
-Poland: Krakow (south), Warsaw, Gdansk, Riga, Tallinn.
-Austria: Vienna, Prague, Budapest.
-Russia: Kiev, Minsk.

I'll upload my map as soon as I figure out how to open it (first I'll follow Leoreth's advice if that works).

EDIT: It worked, thank you.

I'd add Poznan to Poland (additional core city) and Vilnius and Lviv as well. Leoreth and co. are also planning to replace Frankfurt with Köln, so that might be off in your list.

To give more direct feedback, most city locations make sense to me except Bratislava, it's weird to have it so far away from Vienna.

Maybe 2W west of the peak? I assumed the entirety of Slovakia would be that single tile for Bratislava (obviously the most important city), hence the weird placement. If that peak got razed it could be better. Maybe Vienna could be slightly moved east too.

 

[TJDowling]

Suggestions for canonical city locations in Canada. Underlined in red is priority, underlined in blue is American cities (just for reference). Otherwise they are just important place names that can be added but not priority settlements.

Spoiler :

Eastern Canada, St. John's NF, Halifax NS plus some extras just in case. I'm not sure if we wanted to make Quebec, Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto priority, as it is quite crowded but there is a good amount of resource density considering. Each has access to a production resource, food is the only limitation.

Spoiler :

Central Canada: Thunder Bay (to fill the Northern Ontario gap), Winnipeg, Saskatoon and Calgary are the most economically/politically important cities in their respective regions. I was thinking Saskatoon and Regina could be moved 1W each but would like to hear others opinions. They are a bit close to Winnipeg and a bit far from Calgary.

Spoiler :

Western Canada: Prince George and Vancouver are most important BC cities South and North. Forgot to add Victoria 1SW of Vancouver and Prince Rupert 1W and 2N of Vancouver as non-priority, but that's fine.

Spoiler :

Northern Canada: Whitehorse and Yellowknife are priority, though I don't think Yellowknife can be settled there due to ice on the water supply. Other than that I placed some citi...town....villag... hamlets that have access to Northern resources. Reindeer Station doesn't have a resource but marks the Northernmost part of the border with Alaska. Uranium City has access to Uranium. Chesterfield Inlet (the oldest settlment in Nunavut) has access to the Bronze). Iqaluit (North of Quebec on Baffin Island) is utterly useless but is the most well-known town in Nunavut and contributes to Canada's 90% settled UHV.

EDIT: We can add Dawson's Creek if anyone is super passionate about it but it's a bit crowded with Prince George.

EDIT EDIT: Considering the other suggestions I will amend my ideas:

Inuvik instead of Reindeer Station
Grande Prairie instead of Fort McMurray (2W of Fort M).
Flin Flon instead of Uranium City (3 SE of U City).
If Canada Churchill, if British York Factory 1S.
Fort Albany instead of Moosonee.
My Ontario/Quebec suggestions remain the same otherwise. I'm firm on Ottawa not being on the lake, but willing to concede Montreal 1W and Quebec 1S if Ottawa is out of the picture. Saskatoon 1W for sure.
Yellowknife can move 2E or alternatively remove the ice from the North of Great Slave Lake and put it back on the Eastern tile.

 

[Steb]

Mostly agreed on the above! Except that I think the consensus is to put the Canadian spawn plot at Montreal right between where you put Ottawa and Montreal (and I agree with that). The tile where you put Kingston could get the Ottawa name in case someone really wants to found it. It'd be too close to Lake Ontario but on the correct side of the river.

Also, Halifax could alternatively be put on the middle tile of Nova Scotia, but it works on the southern tile as well.

Can Canada's uranium be moved north of Lake Athabasca so that we can found Uranium City on top of it (or next to it)?

 

[DC123456789]

Spoiler :

View attachment 496885

Central Canada: Thunder Bay (to fill the Northern Ontario gap), Winnipeg, Saskatoon and Calgary are the most economically/politically important cities in their respective regions. I was thinking Saskatoon and Regina could be moved 1W each but would like to hear others opinions. They are a bit close to Winnipeg and a bit far from Calgary.

I think York Factory (1S of Churchill) would be better for the prioritized northern Manitoba city, as the original and long-running capital of Rupert's Land/the HBC. I also think Fort Albany (same tile) was more important than Moosonee/Moose Factory, but that's less important (I had both of these in my original post about Canada here).

Spoiler :

View attachment 496886

Western Canada: Prince George and Vancouver are most important BC cities South and North. Forgot to add Victoria 1SW of Vancouver and Prince Rupert 1W and 2N of Vancouver as non-priority, but that's fine.

Saskatoon at least could be moved 1W, it's more geographically accurate and Calgary/Edmonton is less crowded than Winnipeg anyway. Not totally sure about Fort McMurray for northern Alberta/Saskatchewan, I think I decided that Grande Prairie would be better for that region.

Spoiler :

View attachment 496887

Northern Canada: Whitehorse and Yellowknife are priority, though I don't think Yellowknife can be settled there due to ice on the water supply. Other than that I placed some citi...town....villag... hamlets that have access to Northern resources. Reindeer Station doesn't have a resource but marks the Northernmost part of the border with Alaska. Uranium City has access to Uranium. Chesterfield Inlet (the oldest settlment in Nunavut) has access to the Bronze). Iqaluit (North of Quebec on Baffin Island) is utterly useless but is the most well-known town in Nunavut and contributes to Canada's 90% settled UHV.

EDIT: We can add Dawson's Creek if anyone is super passionate about it but it's a bit crowded with Prince George.

Yellowknife is supposed to be NE of Great Slave Lake, that's why I only opened up that tile (the gold and gems should probably be moved so that players aren't tempted to settle a little south to reach Lake Athabasca, though). I thought that Uranium City was to ephemeral to support being canonical, I used Flin Flon 3 SE (could realistically be moved 1N for better coverage, I think) for that area (that's also why I moved the uranium, to be reachable from Flin Flon on that tile).
When I opened up the mouth of the Mackenzie River for settlement, I think I had Aklavik/Inuvik in mind for the city.
I had Rankin Inlet in mind when I put the copper in for continental Nunavut; doesn't make too much of a difference though.

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

Suggestions for canonical city locations in Canada. Underlined in red is priority, underlined in blue is American cities (just for reference). Otherwise they are just important place names that can be added but not priority settlements.

Putting forward the other suggestion again.

I believe Montréal should be 1W of where you've put it. Ottawa should be 1S or 1SW, with the tile above it being Gatineau—and having a higher settler value for France, perhaps.

Québec City should be 1S, I think, though I'm less adamant on that.

Toronto seems good. Perhaps there should be greater resource density in that area, to make founding four cities in a row two tiles from each other more attractive.

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

Leoreth and co. are also planning to replace Frankfurt with Köln, so that might be off in your list.

Is that true? Because I looked it up and while Cologne is more populated today and it would make room for Munich, Frankfurt is an important economical centre.

 

[TJDowling]

Putting forward the other suggestion again.

I believe Montréal should be 1W of where you've put it. Ottawa should be 1S or 1SW, with the tile above it being Gatineau—and having a higher settler value for France, perhaps.

Québec City should be 1S, I think, though I'm less adamant on that.

Toronto seems good. Perhaps there should be greater resource density in that area, to make founding four cities in a row two tiles from each other more attractive.

Going to address everyone here. You guys aren't wrong RE: Montreal. I just didn't want Ottawa on the lake so I put it north of the river and shifted Montreal 1E which in turn shifts Quebec 1N. Being from the Thousand Islands I'm more adamant it shouldn't be on the lake than it shouldn't be on the Eastern side of the river so that's my reasoning. Ottawa was specifically chosen as the capital because it was "far away" from the border, putting it on the lake puts it directly on the border with the USA so historically speaking that doesn't make sense. I mean, in the ideal world I'd put Ottawa 1W and bend the river before, but I guess Leo has nixxed that idea.

If the river isn't changing and Montreal has to be 1W I actually don't mind if Ottawa doesn't exist. It's really not even that likely that Ottawa was chosen as the capital anyway.

York Factory for Britain? Churchill for Canada? As far as Moosonee goes I just have a weird thing for it and placed it couldn't figure out how to change it, haha. I mean if we're going by pre-Confederation importance, Kingston is far more important than Bytown (Ottawa). I guess the name of the tile between Lake Ontario and the Ottawa River could depend on when/if it is founded.

Flin Flon sure. Is Yellowknife really on the Eastern side though. It's kind of on top middle if anything. I forgot about Inuvik, yes Inuvik.

Saskatoon 1W for sure, again, placed it then couldn't figure out how to change it figured I'd see what everyone else thought. Grand Prairie, sure.