1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[Development] Canonical City Location Suggestions

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, May 26, 2018.

  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,574
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    For modern Germany that is definitely the case, but it's a relatively modern development. Cologne has the benefit of going back into the Roman period, being one of the original electors of the HRE, and being the larger city for afaik all of history. Not to mention that the centre of the medieval German state was always along the Rhine so there should be a city to represent that.
     
    EdmundIronside, trevor and borhap88 like this.
  2. TJDowling

    TJDowling Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    560
    Is there a way to delete or edit landmarks in the WB without using the erase tool? For some reason I can't edit them.

    Further question: would anyone be interested in making a map of indigenous placenames for Central, South and North American cities in the (admittedly unlikely) event that an indigenous civilization defeats the foreign invaders? Like in the event the you are playing as the Aztecs/Inca and you fight off a European invasion and you settle the ahistorical areas, it doesn't make much sense to have randomly chosen placenames from the dominant language when indigenous names already exist. Same if Aztecs collapse and respawn as Mexico without Europeans settling in the territory or does Mexico only spawn if Europeans settle?
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
    MechatronicJazz and ozqar like this.
  3. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,671
    Location:
    The city of the original vlaai
    There is a PR pending that fixes this problem.
     
    ozqar and mysterious_stalker like this.
  4. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,671
    Location:
    The city of the original vlaai
    Would this be an appropriate solution for Montreal/Ottawa? I move the confluence of the St. Lawrence River and Ottawa River 1E, so Montreal is still located at the confluece. And Montreal is in the bend of the St. Lawrence, which I think is accurate as well.

    Spoiler :
     

    Attached Files:

    1SDAN likes this.
  5. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    3,078
    Location:
    Canada
    Ehhh... this looks really wrong, particularly since the Ottawa River is already stretched to the west to reach Toronto, so stretching it to the east as well is very, very distorting to the shape of Ontario.
     
  6. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,671
    Location:
    The city of the original vlaai
    I didn't take the shape of Ontario into account. You're right about that. But then why is the Ottawa River stretch so far west in the first place. Even without my suggestion it is too far west now I look into it.

    I agree that my suggestion distorts the shape of Ontario, but I think it improves the Montreal and Ottawa situation.
     
  7. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,574
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    It is merged now, pulling the branch again should enable this feature.
     
  8. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,574
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    Also, everyone is empowered now to make a different suggestion for Ontario (in the other thread of course).
     
    TJDowling likes this.
  9. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    3,078
    Location:
    Canada
    The Ottawa River was extended west to buff Toronto. I think it would be acceptable to extend it either west or east, but both is going a little too far.

    Also, are we going for all 4 of Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec City? Obviously if we aren't this is all a bit moot.

    @TJowling Great Slave Lake is rotated to keep its proper shape (it's not really possible to have it on a 45 degree angle with the tiles and any other setup just looks utterly wrong), that's why Yellowknife ends up more to the east than it really is.
     
    TJDowling likes this.
  10. Genghis Khaiser

    Genghis Khaiser Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    501
    Makes sense. Do you happen to know why is Frankfurt used to represent southern and central Germany? I know this is the case since Vanilla RFC.

    Come to think of it, I just hope Cologne isn't too vulnerable to attacks from the west, but it may add two powerful cities by sacrificing one. Frankfurt makes a great city in most of my games as Germany, having a very productive area and being the Holy City of Protestantism.
    If I may request, could the Holy City be moved to Berlin? It's the closest city within German territory to Wittenberg, Saxony. I'm not sure why it is Frankfurt, especially because southern Germany is better known for being Catholic.
     
  11. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,574
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    Frankfurt is not really in southern Germany how I would define it, and it's a Protestant city, but granted. I see it more of a representation of western Germany, given that you cannot place any city actually on the Rhine on the current map without choking the Netherlands completely.
     
  12. soul-breathing

    soul-breathing King

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    977
    Location:
    Hangzhou,China PR
    This is a Canonical City Location Suggestion in China and Korea, and some few plots of Vietnam and Russia. There're some blank plot I can't make sure, maybe make some updates next time.
    Spoiler :
    Civ4ScreenShot0266.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0267.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0268.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0269.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0270.JPG
     
  13. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,574
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    Please limit yourself to the essential cities.
     
  14. hnrysml

    hnrysml Warlord

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Messages:
    197
    I've tried this at times when playing ahistorically in 1.14 and 1.15, but it's very difficult to find names for many places, and I often ended up going with the name of the Indigenous people who inhabited a given tile. A lot of the cultures and chiefdoms of South America, especially, only have Spanish names today.

    Sometimes there are situations where it is quite easy to give an Indigenous place name for a city, for example, the name of modern day Managua may have come from the Nahuatl Mana-ahuac, and Nahuan language speaking people had settled in Nicaragua before colonial times, therefore, if the Aztec player should found a city there, it makes sense to call it Mana-ahuac.

    For Australia (I'm thinking for if Indonesia, France, or Japan, say were to settle there) there are an abundance of place names and clan names known, but giving either to a city seems kinda arbitrary. However, to me, it does seem less arbitrary than a random place name from that civilisations language of cities that already exist somewhere else irl.
     
  15. TJDowling

    TJDowling Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    560
    Yeah, I meant less nahua-izing or Quechua-izing names and more just choosing what the people in the region you settle called the place. And yeah it could apply to ahistorical settlements too or even historical settlements where the name is uncertain. I know it's equally as unlikely that an imperialist Aztec or Incan civilization would adopt the indigenous name of the places they settle or conquer but at least the languages are closer than European languages so there is a chance it might translate or be adopted. Mostly I just despise settling Texas or Puebla and seeing "Texcoco" or "Teotihuacan". Like, I know that place is not Texcoco.

    There's a whole series of maps like this for different places in the Americas which could be very handy in this: https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/46654546117710112/?lp=true

    I guess this is getting off-topic. Maybe this warrants a different thread. Hell, if we wanted to get really complicated we could even create a system by which a newly settled city in the Americas, Africa or Australia could take an indigenous name by chance as there are many examples of indigenous names adopted by the colonial powers.
     
  16. BenZL43

    BenZL43 awkward cat

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    3,199
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Indonesia
    Here's a suggestion for canonical cities in Sumatra / Malayan Peninsula region. I don't have Civ4 installed atm (will do), so I use Merijn's image to put on my suggestion. While it does look cluttered, I hope it's still readable. I would recommend to aim for Palembang-KL-Medan/Padang setting in 1800 AD and Palembang-Malacca-Kutaraja setting in other scenario.



    I'm glad to see that development for DoC is still active! Reminiscing times from my early high school when I joined the discussion, around 8 or 9 years ago.

    Edit: probably that mountain 1S Kutaraja & 1W Medan, I assume it is meant to be Mt. Leuser? I would recommend turning it into a hill instead to increase productivity for whichever Northern Sumatran city there.. or you could add Tobacco there in later era
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  17. Hightower

    Hightower Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    506
    Location:
    Jersey City
    Or Valencia, as on the map, as long as the Moors having two cities in Iberia doesn't create balance issues. I think Valencia should be preferred over Cartagena both for historical and modern importance and because it spaces the cities a bit better.
     
    trevor and Leoreth like this.
  18. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,574
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    The modern four city combination on Sumatra is a bit squeezed. Maybe only Padang instead of Medan?
     
  19. BenZL43

    BenZL43 awkward cat

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    3,199
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Indonesia
    Yeah, that should work.
     
    1SDAN and Leoreth like this.
  20. citis

    citis Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,480
    Generally I propose these:

    *Meroe -> Dungulah -> Hartum (modern day Sudan)
    *Ninua -> Nineveh (Assyria)
    *Knossos -> Heralceum -> Handax -> Candia -> Iraklion (Crete)
    *Ujjaini (Avanti)
    *Kryptos Limen -> Masqat (Oman)
    *Chersonesos -> Kefe -> Kherson (Crimaia)
    *Caen (only if you want to simulate an French-English rivalry)
    *Kyunglung (Western Tibet)
    *Scuin -> Glascow (Scotland)
    *Konigsberg -> Gdansk -> Kaliningrad (Teutonir order)
    *Sarai -> Caricyn -> Stalingrad -> Volgograd
    *Al-Diriyah -> Riyad (dawn of Saudi Arabia)

    More specific in Greece:
    *Knossos (should be founded as Indie before Greek spawn)
    *Athens (Greek spawn location)
    *Thessaloniki (should be present in medieval game and later)
    *Maybe Ephessos -> Efec?
     

Share This Page