[Development] City Name Suggestions

The new big map has got me real hyped up, and recently I found the time to finally try and help out with this. The new map was available for download like a year ago here in the forums and I got mine back then, but I never had the time to try and have a look at it until now. I wanted to ask if it's horribly outdated and unusable by now? Like has there been significant changes to the terrain shape after that? Do I need a newer version before posting city suggestions?

I'm asking this because I spent a chunk of my evening a couple day back doing city names for Northern America, but it was only after I had completed it and taken my screenshots did I come to think of this issue. So I'm just wondering now if it's completely useless to post the city suggestions I planned.
 
If you want the ingame map, you need access to the private map branch, please contact me if that is the case. But LacsiraxAriscal also made a very good spreadsheet version of the map and nothing in terms of coastlines has changed since then.
 
doc_france1.png
Last version of my city name map for France, colored zones are still equivalent to the current regions (reference). Allcaps cities are "canonical".

-Lyon extended on two tiles, the allcaps one is needed to cover every tile while the southern tile is more accurate.
-Rearranged the western regions to favor the overall shape over surface area.
 
The Byzantines have no unique city names in Spain, which is inaccurate as they were there during the Justinian campaign.
Here is a link for reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spania

Note the Spania province has several names like Corduba (Cordoba), Barcino (Barcelona), Hispalis (Sevilla), Valentia (Valencia), Toletum (Toledo) and others which could be used in the game.
For France and beyond maybe the Byzantines could use the Western Roman default names, it is better than no name at all.
 
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How do default names work, actually? Are they just assigned based on the time period, or is there some sort of connection to a civ with the closest language match?
 
What do you mean by default name?
 
Assuming all languages are exhausted without finding a name, a local name is chosen based on who has the highest settler value for the tile.
 
Civ4ScreenShot0668.JPG

My suggestions on the "Korea" region.
Name changes that should take place:
Spoiler Name changes :

Hanseong -> Seoul (Industrial)
Dongrae -> Busan (Industrial)
Seorabeol -> Gyeongju (Medival)


Also including a screenshot of soul-breathing's suggestions for this region,
and comparions/reasons for my choices against his.
Spoiler soul-breathing :
2. East China & Korea.jpg
Taejon(Daejon) is a relatively new city that rose to importance in the early 20c.
Until then, Gongju has always been the most populous and politically important city in the surrounding region.
It was once the capital of the Baekje kingdom, and was a provincial capital during the Joseon dynasty.

Likewise, Kwangju(Gwangju) has been the less important city to Jeonju, until the late 20c.
Jeonju has been the effective provincial capital of the region since 8c,
and was one of the most populous/politically significant cities during the Joseon dynasty.

Likewise, Taegu(Daegu) and Pohang only rose to importance in 20c.
and so I have replaced them with Jinju and Sangju.

Chungju and Wonju are both important cities, but I'd say that location (east of Seoul) would be closer to Wonju.
Chungju is located further south.

Sinuiju is a new city that was seperated from the city of Uiju in 1904. "Sin" literally means "new".
I moved Uiju 1 tile west, and put Kanggye there instead.
Kanggye was an important military stronghold during the Joseon period.

Kimchaek is actually Seongjin; North Korea renamed the city after a general who died during the Korean war.
Anyway, Chongjin is the bigger city in that area, so I'd say Chongjin would be the better choice.

Soul-breathing's location of Chongjin (1tile north of mine) is too up north;
I replaced it with Rajin, which is another important harbor in the NK eastern coast.

Jolbon was the first capital of the Kokuryo(Goguryeo) kingdom; it was only captial for 50 years or so until it was moved to-
Gungnae, which lasted as capital for 424 years, until the capital was moved to Pyongyang.
The location of Gungnae is about where the modern Chinese city of Tonghua stands.

Sangyeong was the capital of the Balhae kingdom (698-926),
which was a state founded by the refugees from the fallen Kokuryo kingdom.
 

Attachments

  • CitiesDiff-Korea.zip
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View attachment 605737

My suggestions on the "Korea" region.
Name changes that should take place:
Spoiler Name changes :

Hanseong -> Seoul (Industrial)
Dongrae -> Busan (Industrial)
Seorabeol -> Gyeongju (Medival)


Also including a screenshot of soul-breathing's suggestions for this region,
and comparions/reasons for my choices against his.
Spoiler soul-breathing :
View attachment 605736
Taejon(Daejon) is a relatively new city that rose to importance in the early 20c.
Until then, Gongju has always been the most populous and politically important city in the surrounding region.
It was once the capital of the Baekje kingdom, and was a provincial capital during the Joseon dynasty.

Likewise, Kwangju(Gwangju) has been the less important city to Jeonju, until the late 20c.
Jeonju has been the effective provincial capital of the region since 8c,
and was one of the most populous/politically significant cities during the Joseon dynasty.

Likewise, Taegu(Daegu) and Pohang only rose to importance in 20c.
and so I have replaced them with Jinju and Sangju.

Chungju and Wonju are both important cities, but I'd say that location (east of Seoul) would be closer to Wonju.
Chungju is located further south.

Sinuiju is a new city that was seperated from the city of Uiju in 1904. "Sin" literally means "new".
I moved Uiju 1 tile west, and put Kanggye there instead.
Kanggye was an important military stronghold during the Joseon period.

Kimchaek is actually Seongjin; North Korea renamed the city after a general who died during the Korean war.
Anyway, Chongjin is the bigger city in that area, so I'd say Chongjin would be the better choice.

Soul-breathing's location of Chongjin (1tile north of mine) is too up north;
I replaced it with Rajin, which is another important harbor in the NK eastern coast.

Jolbon was the first capital of the Kokuryo(Goguryeo) kingdom; it was only captial for 50 years or so until it was moved to-
Gungnae, which lasted as capital for 424 years, until the capital was moved to Pyongyang.
The location of Gungnae is about where the modern Chinese city of Tonghua stands.

Sangyeong was the capital of the Balhae kingdom (698-926),
which was a state founded by the refugees from the fallen Kokuryo kingdom.
I agree most of your opinions. Meanwhile I suggest that Uiju(Dandong), Jolbon(Fushun), Gungnae(Tonghua) and Sangyeong(Baihe) could turn to Chinese name when China control those cities.
 
Suggestions for the Mongolia region,
with a minor change to the suggestions Korea region I've made above.

Civ4ScreenShot0676.JPG

The city of Uiju is IRL located on the East bank of the Yalu(Amrok) river,
therefore I have replaced it with the city of Andong, currently known as Dandong (changed name in 1965).


Civ4ScreenShot0677.JPG

The Mongolia Region, and some nearby tiles, based on soul-breathing's suggestions.
Most of the cities are currently the provincial capitals of Mongolia.
I say provincial capitals, but these are small towns with 10k~30k pop each.

Spoiler Name Changes :

Urga -> Ulaanbaatar (Communist)
Belotsarsk -> Kyzyl (Communist)

Ulaanbaatar means "Red Hero", and Belotsarsk means "City of the White Tsar".

Zakamensk -> Zakhaamin (Mongol)
Gusinoozyorsk -> Galuutnuur (Mongol)

These two cities were founded by the Russians and are currently in Russian territory,
but in DoC these tiles are classified as "Mongolia region", and are likely to be in Mongol territory anyway because of how cultural borders work.


Discussions:

1.
I've tried to fill as many possible settlable tiles as possible, and since I didn't want to fill the map with names of 1k pop villages,
I have enlarged multiple cities to 2~3 tiles.
Still, there are some tiles left to fill, e.g.) tiles around the oasis 1W of Ejina, and the riverside desert 1W of Choibalsan.

2.
Karakorum and Urga; which one should take the tile 1S of Erdenet?
This comes down to the question: which one is the more important city, the one that needs to be represented in the game?
Karakorum was the capital of the Mongol Empire, but is little more than a ruin now.
Urga is a city that rose to power in the 17c, but it is currently the capital of Mongolia, and holds half of her national population.

In the end, I decided that Karakorum should be the winner, because in DoC, the Mongol civilization features the Mongol Empire of 13-14c,
and not the shadow it was in 17c & onwards..

3.
There are two strips of moorland that connects Mongolia to North China across the Govi Desert.
One is the Urga (Ulaanbaatar) - Choir - Sainshand line;
these tiles were easy to name because Google Map showed a highway (railroad?) connecting these cities to China.

But I could find no clear sign of a big highway/railroad connecting Mongolia to Bayan Nur.
I have named these 2 tiles as Mandalgovi, the capital of a province in southern Mongolia,
but maybe this passage should be blocked with a desert tile?
This will make it easier for the human Chinese player to defend against the Mongols, which could either be a good idea or a bad idea.

4.
I've noticed that there are a few hundred tiles in Siberia that need to be named, and most of these are scarcely inhabited IRL.
Same would go for regions like the African inlands and the jungles of South America.
So: what is the policy for these regions?
Should all tiles be named before we can use the new map?
Or naming the core areas and historically/strategically important regions suffice?
 

Attachments

  • CitiesDiff - jhlee.zip
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That's not true.
 
I talked about this before. Do I have to elaborate on every single example before I can make a decision on them?
 
Now some city name suggestions regarding Afghanistan and Central Asia.

A reference on ancient city names in Khwarazm I found useful is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:...slamic_period,_before_the_Mongol_invasion.svg

For Silk Road-era cities in Kazakhstan this was a good starting point: https://en.unesco.org/silkroad/countries-alongside-silk-road-routes/kazakhstan

I also heavily referenced LacsiraxAriscal's map, which of course was very helpful!

Regarding where to place Iranian names or Turkic, or which spellings are appropriate, I don't really have a clue, but I did my best to make it reasonable. Unfortunately, I sometimes had to resort to relatively modern settlements, especially in modern Kazakhstan (Aqtau, Shelek etc.). I don't know if any of these names would be immersion-breaking if founded by medieval Turks.

I also wrote down a list of later towns for some tiles (especially relevant since many of the ones I put on the map have been abandoned for hundreds of years). Also, tons of cities have had renamings, but I haven't written down those.

Spoiler Afghanistan :

nafg.jpg



Spoiler Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan :

ntu.jpg



Spoiler Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan :

ntkk.jpg



Spoiler Later cities :

Iran:
Asaak -> Quchan
Neyshabur -> Mashhad

Afghanistan:
Artacoana -> Herat (possibly same city)
Kapisakani -> Kandahar (Kapisakani was a ancient fortress thought to have been located either at Kandahar or at Kapisi/Bagram. My reason for putting it at the former is that the name Kandahar would be slightly iffy if founded early by Persians/Indians, since it was probably derived from Alexander's name. It might still be better to just have Kandahar from the start though.)
Bakhtri -> Mazar-i-Sharif
Kapisi -> Kabul

Turkmenistan:
Dehistan -> Ekerem (An alternative is to have Gorgan here.)
Ruzvand -> Dashoguz
Nisa -> Ashgabat

Uzbekistan:
Baratakin -> Chimbay
Mizdahkon -> Nukus
Banakath -> Guliston
Akhsikath -> Namangan

Tajikistan
Hulbuk -> Dushanbe

Kyrgyzstan:
Ordukent -> Balasagun -> Bishkek

Kazakhstan (Caspian area):
Qyzylqala -> Shetpe
Ketik -> Fort-Shevchenko
Saraychiq -> Atyrau

Kazakhstan (Syr Darya area):
Juvara -> Qazaly
Jand -> Josaly
Jengikent -> Baikonur
Syganaq -> Qyzylorda
Saýran -> Janaqorgan
Parab -> Arys
Isbijab -> Chimkent

Kazakhstan (Balkhash area)/China:
Gorguz -> Baqanas
Talkhiz -> Almaty
Ikioguz -> Taldyqorgan
Qayaliq -> Sarqan
Ilanbaliq -> Jarkent
Almaliq -> Qulja
 

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