[Development]Epic Adventures in Wildmana (civ specific victory condition)

[Tarquelne]

Hippus: control every horse resource and own Guild of the Nine

Sidar: Kill every (national) hero with the Nether Blade

Some good points on (in my words) the relatively soulless nature of "score victories." Ideally everybody would have something along the lines of the Illians or the Sheaim.

Of course then those two civs would have to get something even more interesting, to compensate. Or - following long-established convention - just give such victory conditions to all the cool, evil, civs.

Short of that, I think the two ideas above are a good compromise between just making a number go higher and destroying the world. /Thinking cap on/

Or maybe forget the alignments, and just have it be any civ going towards their unique victory will piss off the the rest of them.

*Something* will need to be done for civs that have special benefits introduced. Not so much for overall balance between the civs, but to keep individual games more interesting by reducing the "momentum" of a civ heading for it's special victory.

 

[Sephi]

very very awesome indeed
Although i would change the name of those new victory conditions. Epic adventures (the adventures part) does not really seem to fit imho.

renamed to Epic Destiny ingame

For what civilizations do you need the most input?

currently any quality input is valuable

 

[Sephi]

I saw in your screenshots that there are three categories per civilization (i don't know if this number is intended, i assume it is).

three is just a coincidence. It could be any number.

 

[Sephi]

I've always wanted something like this.

The screen shots gave me some ideas for the Scions:

Uncreation: X% of land covered with Haunted Lands.

Interesting progressive benefits are possible: Reborn start showing up spontaneously. (Maybe out there in the wilds.) Other civs sometimes pop a Scion Reborn rather than grow a city by 1. Units in other civs are sometimes Undead rather than the civ's race.

Angel of Good Intentions: Risen Emperor reaches level X and creates X Revenants.

Pax Patria: X turns of peace, high commerce or trades-for-gold. Maybe high culture and good diplomatic relationships. But "high culture" should come more or less automatically, and high commerce (hopefully) requires good relationships.

Or something - I'm not sure just how to measure "soft power". (Something to do with Melante (the Artful Governor) and/or Pelemoc Goldtongue? Maybe increase the cost of "Emperor's Claim" and require X cast or present in the world?)

Uncreation is easy to do. Not every Scion Leader can build the Risen Emperor? They would need something else. Pax Patria sounds interesting. Dark Council should probably also be one Adventure for the Scions.

 

[Sephi]

wow that's a lot harder than I thought O.o

and that was only 1 for some civs, not ~3 for close to 30 civs.

What a neat series of ideas.

I wonder if the Ljos could have a "destroy or vassalize the Svarts", and the Svarts "destroy or vassalize the Ljos", to serve the theme of uniting the Summer and Winter courts? Understand that a game which had only one elven race and not the other couldn't achieve this condition, but hey, I'm thinking Splintered Court type scenario here.

yes, they can and will have this adventure. Once you meet the other civ, you will need to destroy them.

Balseraphs will be for now:
-create 100 freaks
-mutate 200 units
-taunt 50 units
-steal 50 promotions with mimics
-create 30 slaves
- own the Menagerie

 

[tesb]

grigori:
-tales of heroes: have 10 lvl 15 heroes
-treasures of erebus: have 10 items found (orthus axe, jadetorch, gela, ...)
-heroic deeds: defeat 5 worlunits


Sidar:
-nemesis of the undead: destroy scions of patria / all undead in the game
-vanish: hide all your cities (possible with the upcoming further flavored civilizations i am working on)
-disappear: all your units are invisible


Calabim:
-feast of blood: reduce city population by 100
-power of blood: 4 lvl 20 vampire lords
-call o the grave: have 100 skeletons


Malakim:
-desert power: have 80 trade routes
-in a bright land: spread desert to 60% of the (land) map
-leaders of erebus: lead the overcouncil for 100 turns

 

[hbar]

Clan of Embers: Start 100 fires
Infernals: Have a greater population in Dis then the combined population of the rest of Erebus
Bannor: Raze all Evil religion holy cities (AV, OO, Esus, and White Hand (is WH in WM?))
Elohim: Control all Unique Features for 30 turns
Kuriotates: Have one of every luxury resource available (including pearls, remnants of Patria if relevant civs are in the game)

 

[Neomega]

Khazad:
Control 80% of world iron, and 3 enchantment mana, to make uber-hammer
Controlling 66% of world mithril and 5 earth mana (plus above) allows special golems to be purchased
having 100,000 gold, (plus above) allows an uber-weapon or ring to be formed/purchased (for 90,000)

 

[Neomega]

Balseraph:
Schizophrenic Ether: Control 4 chaos and 4 mind mana, and all living units worldwide have a small chance of mutation or go into rage, confused, blinded, charmed, etc (but not crazed)

Magic Miscegenation: Above, and build the menagerie and all freak shows. HN mutated beast units randomly start spawning everywhere on the map, if they win, another one is created.

Final Curtain: Above, +2 mind and +2 chaos mana. Every turn every unit outside of a city has a 5% chance of switching allegiance to another random civ.

Of course, mana control numbers necessary should scale with map size.

 

[Calavente]

It seems fun.
But I really don't like the X requirement spells or for building things

For levels it seems ok.

(the proposed grigori seems ok but maybe need something going with razing 2/3/all holy cities ?)

Balseraphs seems ok :
building 100 freaks is almost easy in 400 turns (almost all my units start as freaks) mutating 200units (100 being the freaks) is a bit harder, but by going in friendly lands you may mutate athers units. And normaly, by turn 300 you could have build 200 units and have them mutated, then destroyed or killed in action.
50 Taunt/ 50steal / 30slaves seems a bit too easy.
It seems balanced with the need to have the great menagerie
But it may be also good /fun to count the number of city loki destroyed... or count an amount of gold/culture stolen by Loki.
Maybe add : "make war then peace" 5 times with one given civ. (to show lunacy)


I mean, the adventures should not be too easy.
Or if some are easy, maybe they should be in combination with some other adventures before granting "victory"
I like the idea of 3steps, each being a small path into victory and the 3 being needed for victory :
maybe some steps can have options if one is undoable (ex ljos have to kill the svart but that cannot be done if there are no svar : else they must do something else, but much harder)

OR at last, some victory adventures should have a "time limit" :

ex : Clan : liberate brigitt before ... Doca's prison is breached.
or
Illians (or any other guy): build the Baron and have 10 Greater Werewolves before anybody has a Beastmaster.
Or : kill 5 beastmaster with the baron or greaterwerewolves

Calabims :
step 1 :
Have 20 units, not melee, with vampiric promotion and 10 vampires units (unit that start with vampiric promotion) before the sun religion is invented (forgot the name of it)
have 3 vampires lords before Chalid is built :
If you missed the delay:
You win this step if chalid is dead and the the holy city razed max 50 turn after chalid's creation (or 100 turns) (by you or a third civ) plus you need to kill 50 priest /high priests of the sun.

step 2
have 12/16/20 Tier IV units with vampiric promotion (quite hard as only 4 vampire lords and 4 archmages (gains xp quickly) (vampiric stays for lichs ?) then you need at least 4 or 8 or 12 units with enough xp to be vampirised + the tech to upgrad them to TIV (I calculated : knight, shadowrider, shadow, beastmaster, marksman, crossbow, vampire lord, phalanx, archmage, lich, religious TIV (paladin/druid/eidolon), Highpriest, Bruja = 15 possible TIV units types for calabim = 60 TIV units : I thought that a victory with 20 TIV vampiric units is a nice victory condition, but maybe too easy/too hard?)


These victory adventures should be difficult to obtain (other victory condition are hard) or at least trying to get them should be linked to a huge investement :

 

[blade117]

wow, the first part of the calabim goals above is really confusing.

 

[Valkrionn]

(the proposed grigori seems ok but maybe need something going with razing 2/3/all holy cities ?)

Only going to comment on this.... I'm not sure why everyone assumes the Grigori are anti-religion, but they are not.

They are anti-STATE Religion. They will not have any state-sponsored temples, they will have no forced religious conversions. They DO allow their citizens to worship whatever they choose; They are quite tolerant.

 

[hbar]

Can you make a diplo request/demand that a rival adopt No State Religion? That would be a good one for the Grigori.

 

[Sephi]

added two optional adventures for Balseraphs:
create elf cage if elven Civilization met
create dwarf cage if khazad/luchuirp met

added Bannor adventures:
be in Crusade for 150 turns
create 100 demagogs
destroy 3 Civilizations
Destroy Sheaim (if civilization met)
Destroy Ashen Veil Holy City (if Religion founded)

 

[bit_cynical]

From a game play perspective this is a superb idea but I think instead of gaining an immediate win - maybe you gain a 'gamebreaking' advantage like an uber unit, hero, item, massive bonus to your civ or 'anti-bonus' to your opponents

Then opponents have 20 turns kill the hero or unit/s, take the item or capture the Capital otherwise the game is won.

Dunno if this is possible, but potentially adds another dimension to an already brilliant mod!

 

[Calavente]

Only going to comment on this.... I'm not sure why everyone assumes the Grigori are anti-religion, but they are not.
They are anti-STATE Religion. They will not have any state-sponsored temples, they will have no forced religious conversions. They DO allow their citizens to worship whatever they choose; They are quite tolerant.

I know they are not... but holy cities are the symbols of an organised religion, eventually state-sponsored.
I thought about "conquering all holy cities" to reduce state religions in the wolrd but thought it was too easy, razing them being a tougher choice to make.
Choosing a victory condition /adventure that reflects this "anti state religion" was my goal.
Maybe : kill hyborem, auric, mulcarn, basium and 1 High priest of every regilon present as state religion in the game ? but then you would have issues if some of those guys never come on erebus or if some poor sob is the only one with his religion and not enough tech/xp to get a High priest.

wow, the first part of the calabim goals above is really confusing.

Well I know.
What I wanted to say is : 10 vampires + 10 units with vampiric promotion that are not vampires nor morois. And the time limit is "before someone founds empyrian". It means you have to have : 10 champions + 10 units that are level 6 and infected before empyryan is founded. Easy no ?

 

[Valkrionn]

I know they are not... but holy cities are the symbols of an organised religion, eventually state-sponsored.
I thought about "conquering all holy cities" to reduce state religions in the wolrd but thought it was too easy, razing them being a tougher choice to make.
Choosing a victory condition /adventure that reflects this "anti state religion" was my goal.
Maybe : kill hyborem, auric, mulcarn, basium and 1 High priest of every regilon present as state religion in the game ? but then you would have issues if some of those guys never come on erebus or if some poor sob is the only one with his religion and not enough tech/xp to get a High priest.

And that still misses my point. In giving them ANY victory involving killing priests, or removing holy cities, or anything of the sort, you are changing their flavor.

By giving them ANY way to win via crusading, they become vehemently anti-religious, actively fighting to DESTROY religions. I mean, "burn the holy city to the ground" has pretty much just the one interpretation.

Now, some form of 'enlightenment' where the Luonnotar can remove religions from friendly cities (and create an effect which makes that city stronger) could work; You're teaching them to believe in themselves rather than a god (which is very Grigori), and are doing so even though it actually makes them STRONGER. Meaning it is inherently difficult (strengthen them too much and you go down later) and risky.

 

[Jabie]

And that still misses my point. In giving them ANY victory involving killing priests, or removing holy cities, or anything of the sort, you are changing their flavor.

Agreed. It's the Mechanos - who aren't in Wildmana (yet) - who hate the Gods, the Grigori are indifferent to them, believing themselves beyond them. (The Mechanos are being guided / manipulated by the Machine Spirits, which were born from the guilt Baranaxus suffered carving the Ice Golems for Mulcarn in the Age of Ice. From the Machine Spirit perception the gods forswore the world and therefore do not deserve worship, hence the desire to eliminate them from the world and usher in the Age of Invention instead.)

Back to the topic in hand: The UHG ought to be competitive. For example, on a cylindrical world map, the Lanun should want to sail around it first because they are masters of the sea, whereas the Austrin want to sail around it first because they are explorers. The Bannor and the Elohim may want to see the elimination of the AV Holy City, the Bannor because it is Junil's will, the Elohim to maintain the purity of Erebus. Likewise the Sheaim and the Elohim may want to hold Bradaline's Well within their borders for X turns, though for diametrically opposed reasons.

Keeping the goals opposed means that you will always be in competition with other nations to complete your UHG, which makes for better gameplay.

 

[Sephi]

By giving them ANY way to win via crusading, they become vehemently anti-religious, actively fighting to DESTROY religions. I mean, "burn the holy city to the ground" has pretty much just the one interpretation.

The Pedia states that Cassiel "began his own crusade to lead men away from a war that has nothing to do with them." I think Cassiel would burn a holy city any minute if he is convinced that it would make Erebus a better place. Sure he would prefere to enlighten those who believe in gods but the Sheaim will not simply give open bordern and watch how the Luonnotars "enlighten" their people.

Forcing the player to burn holy cities would be bad though, I agree.

 

[Valkrionn]

The Pedia states that Cassiel "began his own crusade to lead men away from a war that has nothing to do with them." I think Cassiel would burn a holy city any minute if he is convinced that it would make Erebus a better place. Sure he would prefere to enlighten those who believe in gods but the Sheaim will not simply give open bordern and watch how the Luonnotars "enlighten" their people.

Forcing the player to burn holy cities would be bad though, I agree.

His crusade would have been waged via hearts and minds, not weaponry, though.

I can agree that he'd probably be willing to destroy the AV holy city as well... But again, big difference in being willing to and being required to for a victory.