DG2 RolePlay Replay Challenge

[DaveShack]

While we wait for a possible new DemoGame, here's a challenge:

Download the creation save for DG2, and play it with the following stipulations:

• Try to play the game as spoiler-free as possible. Don't look in the DG2 threads for information, and do your best to play it like a new game.
• Keep screenshots and notes.
• If possible, write your notes in a role playing style.
• Post your notes and screenshots in the spoiler thread according to game date and/or events. If you've ever played a GOTM, you know what this means.
• Try to play the game in the style of the civ you're playing, in this case the Mongols. No penalty for playing non-Mongol style, but the main objective is the written notes, not the game play.
• Usual honor system on cheating, no purposeful reloads and no peeking in the associated spoiler thread.

 

[dutchfire]

1.74 + 3.13 or 1.61?

I'm looking forward to this one

 

[Provolution]

Please convert it to 1.74 + 3.13, since 1.61 does not fly anymore, thank you.

 

[DaveShack]

Doesn't it convert when you load it?

 

[Provolution]

No, it does not.

 

[dutchfire]

If it's going to be converted, could there be a copy with the latest HOF mod loaded too, if it's not too much of a hassle?

 

[DaveShack]

On second thought, why don't we bag the starting save, and just play with the same settings.

Leader: Random
Opponents: Random
Climate: Temperate
Sea level: Medium
Game Speed: Normal
Size: Standard
Difficulty Level: Prince
Map Script: "Normal" Continents
Barbarians: Normal
Lock Modified Assets

I've gotta go to work, and since the objective is good commentary not good gameplay, doesn't really matter if we all play the same save, right? So go for it! You might even get a HoF worthy game as a bonus.

 

[DaveShack]

Obviously if we play different saves then you don't really need the LMA flag or to avoid spoilers.

Edit: Creating on the fly is hazardous. Forgot to mention, if Prince is too high a level, play something lower. If it's too low, play something higher.

 

[dutchfire]

Well, I'll try the original anyway, I'm fairly positive I can beat our time.

 

[DaveShack]

Or play the original in 1.61, if you still have that version.

 

[Cyc]

Like to try this but I don't have my CIV2 with me.

 

[dutchfire]

I'm currently in 740 AD, and everything is going fine

 

[DaveShack]

Things went the same way they always do for me. Think of a cool side project, then a ton of bricks lands on me from RL.

Still planning to play.

 

[dutchfire]

I've played quite far already (1620 AD), but the game is slowing down now, I might play on later. I'll post my spoiler so far though, it has been an interesting game. My plan didn't work out as well as planned, but I should be able to win if I play concentrated. I'll take some screenies and perhaps post a save if someone is interested.

Spoiler :

Don't look if you're still planning to play

Spoiler :

Okay, we're going to play in a mongol theme, so the obvious choice for a victory condition is conquest. Besides, we've already done spaceship, we could have done diplomacy too and cultural is hardly interesting on this map in my opinion. So it's either conquest or domination. We'll see how it goes later.

But as you'll probably point out right away, we are going to reach the other continent. To do that, we need Astronomy. It's an expensive tech, so how are we going to get it quickly? Lightbulbing is the answer. According to this excellent article (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/gp_tech_pref.php), Paper and Philosophy have a priority over Astronomy. Therefor, I need to skip Theology, Civil Service and Meditation, to allow my Great Scientists to lightbulb Astronomy. I will use 2 scientists for Astronomy, and I will try to use one for Optics too.

Skipping Civil Service gives us a problem though, no Macemen. I will try to use Keshiks, swordsmen and catapults instead of macemen. Besides, I only need to have our continent finished when I get Astronomy. I will then need to conquer the other continent with these troops too, but I will probably try to get Civil Service immediately after Astronomy, so I can take some macemen too.

Of course, this plan is rather ambitious, and there's a decent chance it will fail completely, or will not work out as intended. That's the risk I have to take.

My economy will be important, as I need to research quite a lot of techs to get sailing across the ocean. I will raze anything but the capitals, to avoid total breakdown. I also want to use the Oracle on Metal Casting or Machinery. Growing some Great Scientists will also be vital, so I will need to prevent a Great Prophet being born from the Oracle. I'll use the capital as the oracle city, and my second city will grow the scientist. I'm also hoping to capture some good wonders in foreign lands.

Now, it's time to play the game.

4000 BC
Settle dutchfire in place, start worker, start agriculture.
Scout start exploring west.

3840 BC
Scout pops map, meets Napoleon

3760 BC
Scout pops scout, 1 scout explores north, 1 east (circling around the capital to find city spots).

3640 BC
Agriculture - Mining

3560 BC
Eastern scout pops hut for 93 gold.

3480 BC
Northern scout dies to a lion

3400 BC
Worker - Warrior

3360 BC
Mining - Bronze Working
Scout pops 49 gold.

3200 BC
Worker completes Corn farm

3160 BC
Worker -> mine plains hill 1 S of the capital

3080 BC
capital grows, completes warrior, starts warrior, focus on growth

2880 BC
capital warrior - warrior

2840 BC
Meet Bismarck

2800 BC
Bronze Working - Mysticism
Worker starts premining

2720 BC
Another warrior built, another started

2560 BC
Enough warriors for now, it's time for a settler. The grassland hill mine on a river completes just in time to get the hammers where they're needed. Settler due in 8 (!)

2520 BC
Mysticism - Polytheism (no meditation for me please). Let's get that Oracle!

2240 BC
Settler - Settler (due in 9)

2200 BC
Ice2k4 settled 4 N of dutchfire. That's one SE of Riversight for you veterans . It will have cows, 2 floodplains and a gold, plus some hills for production. It starts with a obelisk.

2120 BC
Polytheism - Pottery

2000 BC
Meet Julius

1880 BC
Pottery - Priesthood
dutchfire: Settler - Worker Both are due in 5
Revolt to slavery while the settler is walking

1840 BC
Whip Ice2k4 for an obelisk

1800 BC
Ice2k4 starts warrior

1720 BC
DaveShack founded (Coppertown location), starts worker.

1640 BC
Big turn
Complete Priesthood, start Writing (7)
dutchfire finishes worker (chopping), starts Oracle (15)
Ice2k4 finishes warrior, starts worker

1360 BC
Writing - Iron Working

1320 BC
Whip Worker in Ice2k4, overflow maximised for library -> great scientist

1200 BC
Oracle finished, pick Metal Casting
dutchfire starts Forge

1160 BC
dutchfire gets it's second farm, taking the place of a forest. That city needs a lot of food to balance the mines!

1120 BC
DaveShack finishes worker, starts obelisk
Napoleon founds Lyons in possibly the worst possible location, 1 tile from the coast. I'll raze it thank you very much.

925 BC
Iron Working - Animal Husbandry. How could I forget to get cow pastures?

900 BC
Finish library in Ice2k4 (whipped), let's get some scientists!

875 BC
dutchfire: forge->barracks, it's time to start fighting soon!

800 BC
Start on alphabet

625 BC
War is declared on Napoleon

600 BC
Lyons is razed

425 BC
Alphabet is in

375 BC
DaveShack starts another settler, due for Equus Aurum surroundings.

350 BC
Rheims razed

200 BC
Orleans razed
The first axeman is started

175 BC
First GS born in Ice2k4
Ravensfire settled

50 BC
Maths - Construction

50 AD
Paris, and France, falls. Now known as Joe Harker

250 AD
Declare on Julius Caesar

350 AD
Raze Neapolis
Declare on Bismarck

375 AD
Construction - Currency
Raze Frankfurt

450 AD
First catapults completed

500 AD
Cologne razed

540 AD
Cumae razed

620 AD
Currency - Code of Laws
Essen razed

640 AD
Second Great Scientist is born in Ice2k4, only 1 to go.

660 AD
Julius has about 6 chariots in his next city, so I'll focus on Germany first.
So I pillage Bismarck's horses.

700 AD
Compass - Machinery

740 AD
Bismarck has construction, and gets the Music GA. Time to die
I capture Berlin (Parthenon + Pyramids, nice!), and make peace for Calendar.
Berlin renamed Ori
Revolt to Representation

820 AD
Romans settle Ravenna next to my swordsman, thanks for the free gold!

880 AD
Raze Antium

960 AD
Machinery - Compass (quick researching thanks to the captured gold)
Pisae razed

1000 AD
Julius lands 4 chariots near Joe Harker (Paris). Whow, I've underestimated the AI, it has managed to threaten me once, in 5000 years.
Of course, I capture Rome the same turn. I keep it, I'll need harbours later to build ships. The upkeep will be murderous though. I name it Lockesdonkey.
I raze Dortmund the same turn.

1020 AD
Raze a barbarian city in the centre of the continent.

1040 AD
Compass in, time to bulb.
Bulb optics, bulb 1 scientist to Astronomy. Research set to Civil Service.
Nobody settled, in the west.

1050 AD
Hamburg razed.

1060 AD
My economy is hurting so bad that I need to build money in some cities.

1100 AD
Third Great Scientist is born in Joe Harker (Paris), and bulbs Astronomy!
Bismarck dies.
Can't declare war on Julius .

1130 AD
Raze Rome's last city. This continent was fun while it lasted.

1150 AD
Civil Service -> Monarchy
Revolt to Bureaucracy

1230 AD
Meet Huayna, he doesn't have Longbows yet, or Maces!
I also meet Tokugawa, who does have Longbows, and who even has optics. He's clearly beating up Huayna. He'll be the first target.

1260 AD
Declare on Tokugawa, and land 6 units.

1270 AD
Raze Nagoya. I fear these Longbowmen will be though.

1290 AD
Raze Nara
Meet Montezuma, who's at war with Tokugawa too .
He's more advanced than Huayna, but less advanced than Tokugawa.

1310 AD
Monarchy - Feudalism (thanks Representation)

1320 AD
Raze Satsuma

1430 AD
The war is not going very well. I revolt to Police State.

1440 AD
Kyoto finally falls. It's time to head north, and hurt Montezuma too.

1480 AD
Tokyo razed, Tokugawa is feeling the pain now.

1505 AD
I get a Great Artist in Ori (Berlin). Great. I settle him, so he'll give me some money.

1515 AD
Japan dies. Time to go after Huayna too.

1570 AD
Texcoco razed, finally another tough nut cracked.

1620 AD
After razing two of Monty's cities in one turn, I make peace for engineering. The WW is getting too high.

 

[ice2k4]

2200 BC
Ice2k4 settled 4 N of dutchfire. That's one SE of Riversight for you veterans . It will have cows, 2 floodplains and a gold, plus some hills for production. It starts with a obelisk.

Honored that you would name a city after me.

 

[dutchfire]

Honored that you would name a city after me.

Honored that you read through the entire text

 

[dutchfire]

Spoiler full spoiler :

Okay, we're going to play in a mongol theme, so the obvious choice for a victory condition is conquest. Besides, we've

already done spaceship, we could have done diplomacy too and cultural is hardly interesting on this map in my opinion. So

it's either conquest or domination. We'll see how it goes later.

But as you'll probably point out right away, we are going to reach the other continent. To do that, we need Astronomy. It's

an expensive tech, so how are we going to get it quickly? Lightbulbing is the answer. According to this excellent article

(http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/gp_tech_pref.php), Paper and Philosophy have a priority over Astronomy. Therefor, I

need to skip Theology, Civil Service and Meditation, to allow my Great Scientists to lightbulb Astronomy. I will use 2

scientists for Astronomy, and I will try to use one for Optics too.

Skipping Civil Service gives us a problem though, no Macemen. I will try to use Keshiks, swordsmen and catapults instead of

macemen. Besides, I only need to have our continent finished when I get Astronomy. I will then need to conquer the other

continent with these troops too, but I will probably try to get Civil Service immediately after Astronomy, so I can take some

macemen too.

Of course, this plan is rather ambitious, and there's a decent chance it will fail completely, or will not work out as

intended. That's the risk I have to take.

My economy will be important, as I need to research quite a lot of techs to get sailing across the ocean. I will raze

anything but the capitals, to avoid total breakdown. I also want to use the Oracle on Metal Casting or Machinery. Growing

some Great Scientists will also be vital, so I will need to prevent a Great Prophet being born from the Oracle. I'll use the

capital as the oracle city, and my second city will grow the scientist. I'm also hoping to capture some good wonders in

foreign lands.

Now, it's time to play the game.

4000 BC
Settle dutchfire in place, start worker, start agriculture.
Scout start exploring west.

3840 BC
Scout pops map, meets Napoleon

3760 BC
Scout pops scout, 1 scout explores north, 1 east (circling around the capital to find city spots).

3640 BC
Agriculture - Mining

3560 BC
Eastern scout pops hut for 93 gold.

3480 BC
Northern scout dies to a lion

3400 BC
Worker - Warrior

3360 BC
Mining - Bronze Working
Scout pops 49 gold.

3200 BC
Worker completes Corn farm

3160 BC
Worker -> mine plains hill 1 S of the capital

3080 BC
capital grows, completes warrior, starts warrior, focus on growth

2880 BC
capital warrior - warrior

2840 BC
Meet Bismarck

2800 BC
Bronze Working - Mysticism
Worker starts premining

2720 BC
Another warrior built, another started

2560 BC
Enough warriors for now, it's time for a settler. The grassland hill mine on a river completes just in time to get the

hammers where they're needed. Settler due in 8 (!)

2520 BC
Mysticism - Polytheism (no meditation for me please). Let's get that Oracle!

2240 BC
Settler - Settler (due in 9)

2200 BC
Ice2k4 settled 4 N of dutchfire. That's one SE of Riversight for you veterans . It will have cows, 2 floodplains and a

gold, plus some hills for production. It starts with a obelisk.

2120 BC
Polytheism - Pottery

2000 BC
Meet Julius

1880 BC
Pottery - Priesthood
dutchfire: Settler - Worker Both are due in 5
Revolt to slavery while the settler is walking

1840 BC
Whip Ice2k4 for an obelisk

1800 BC
Ice2k4 starts warrior

1720 BC
DaveShack founded (Coppertown location), starts worker.

1640 BC
Big turn
Complete Priesthood, start Writing (7)
dutchfire finishes worker (chopping), starts Oracle (15)
Ice2k4 finishes warrior, starts worker

1360 BC
Writing - Iron Working

1320 BC
Whip Worker in Ice2k4, overflow maximised for library -> great scientist

1200 BC
Oracle finished, pick Metal Casting
dutchfire starts Forge

1160 BC
dutchfire gets it's second farm, taking the place of a forest. That city needs a lot of food to balance the mines!

1120 BC
DaveShack finishes worker, starts obelisk
Napoleon founds Lyons in possibly the worst possible location, 1 tile from the coast. I'll raze it thank you very much.

925 BC
Iron Working - Animal Husbandry. How could I forget to get cow pastures?

900 BC
Finish library in Ice2k4 (whipped), let's get some scientists!

875 BC
dutchfire: forge->barracks, it's time to start fighting soon!

800 BC
Start on alphabet

625 BC
War is declared on Napoleon

600 BC
Lyons is razed

425 BC
Alphabet is in

375 BC
DaveShack starts another settler, due for Equus Aurum surroundings.

350 BC
Rheims razed

200 BC
Orleans razed
The first axeman is started

175 BC
First GS born in Ice2k4
Ravensfire settled

50 BC
Maths - Construction

50 AD
Paris, and France, falls. Now known as Joe Harker

250 AD
Declare on Julius Caesar

350 AD
Raze Neapolis
Declare on Bismarck

375 AD
Construction - Currency
Raze Frankfurt

450 AD
First catapults completed

500 AD
Cologne razed

540 AD
Cumae razed

620 AD
Currency - Code of Laws
Essen razed

640 AD
Second Great Scientist is born in Ice2k4, only 1 to go.

660 AD
Julius has about 6 chariots in his next city, so I'll focus on Germany first.
So I pillage Bismarck's horses.

700 AD
Compass - Machinery

740 AD
Bismarck has construction, and gets the Music GA. Time to die
I capture Berlin (Parthenon + Pyramids, nice!), and make peace for Calendar.
Berlin renamed Ori
Revolt to Representation

820 AD
Romans settle Ravenna next to my swordsman, thanks for the free gold!

880 AD
Raze Antium

960 AD
Machinery - Compass (quick researching thanks to the captured gold)
Pisae razed

1000 AD
Julius lands 4 chariots near Joe Harker (Paris). Whow, I've underestimated the AI, it has managed to threaten me once, in

5000 years.
Of course, I capture Rome the same turn. I keep it, I'll need harbours later to build ships. The upkeep will be murderous

though. I name it Lockesdonkey.
I raze Dortmund the same turn.

1020 AD
Raze a barbarian city in the centre of the continent.

1040 AD
Compass in, time to bulb.
Bulb optics, bulb 1 scientist to Astronomy. Research set to Civil Service.
Nobody settled, in the west.

1050 AD
Hamburg razed.

1060 AD
My economy is hurting so bad that I need to build money in some cities.

1100 AD
Third Great Scientist is born in Joe Harker (Paris), and bulbs Astronomy!
Bismarck dies.
Can't declare war on Julius .

1130 AD
Raze Rome's last city. This continent was fun while it lasted.

1150 AD
Civil Service -> Monarchy
Revolt to Bureaucracy

1230 AD
Meet Huayna, he doesn't have Longbows yet, or Maces!
I also meet Tokugawa, who does have Longbows, and who even has optics. He's clearly beating up Huayna. He'll be the first

target.

1260 AD
Declare on Tokugawa, and land 6 units.

1270 AD
Raze Nagoya. I fear these Longbowmen will be though.

1290 AD
Raze Nara
Meet Montezuma, who's at war with Tokugawa too .
He's more advanced than Huayna, but less advanced than Tokugawa.

1310 AD
Monarchy - Feudalism (thanks Representation)

1320 AD
Raze Satsuma

1430 AD
The war is not going very well. I revolt to Police State.

1440 AD
Kyoto finally falls. It's time to head north, and hurt Montezuma too.

1480 AD
Tokyo razed, Tokugawa is feeling the pain now.

1505 AD
I get a Great Artist in Ori (Berlin). Great. I settle him, so he'll give me some money.

1515 AD
Japan dies. Time to go after Huayna too.

1570 AD
Texcoco razed, finally another tough nut cracked.

1620 AD
After razing two of Monty's cities in one turn, I make peace for engineering. The WW is getting too high.

1635 AD
Raze Tiwanuka, quite an easy fight. I had been landing macemen on a hill next to the city for some time, and together with

catapults, it was an easy fight.

1650 AD
Ori's (Berlin's) borders expand, giving me furs and ivory. I needed that! That's +4 Happiness for every city with a market.

1660 AD
Discover silver in Lockesdonkey, nice.
I just noticed I haven't build the Forbidden Palace yet

1665 AD
Raze Cuzco, take that Huayna!

1675 AD
Raze Ollayantambo (I am pretty sure that isn't the correct spelling). A fringe city near the tundra.
I also declare on Montezuma again, which brings back WW.

1700 AD
Raze Vitcos, another Tundra city. Another 150 gold in raze money.

1705 AD
Machu Pichu razed, Huayna is coming down fast.

1715 AD
Forbidden Palace comes online, but saves only a couple of bucks. 100 + in unit upkeep!

1725 AD
Vilcabamba is razed, the south of the island is cleared of incans. Let's move up.

1730 AD
Vilcas razed.

1735 AD
Former Japanese Aztec Osaka razed.

1745 AD
Raze Huamanga, the last Incan city. Huayna is dead, only Montezuma to go.

1750 AD
Now Huayna is dead, I get a lot less WW. It's now 4 in my capital, it was 11!

1755 AD
Tlateco falls, just 1 city left!

1760 AD
I start halting unit production, new units will take 11 turns to sail, and a couple to move to Nobody's docks, so they won't

make it in time.

1770 AD
Cities to wealth production, research 100%, trying to score some extra techs.

1785 AD
CONQUEST VICTORY! The last Aztec is dead. I made it, a quick intercontinental war, that lasted too long.

1790 AD
Victory is official now.

Headlines:
4000 BC - dutchfire founded
2200 BC - Ice2k4 founded
1720 BC - DaveShack founded
1240 BC - Oracle built
625 BC - First war declared, on Napoleon
200 BC - First GS
175 BC - Ravensfire founded
50 AD - France destroyed
250 AD - Declare war on Julius Caesar
350 AD - Declare war on Bismarck
620 AD - Second GS
1100 AD - Germany destroyed
1090 AD - Third Great Scientist
1130 AD - Rome destroyed
1260 AD - Declare on Tokugawa
1390 AD - Declare on Montezuma
1515 AD - Japan destroyed
1525 AD - Declare on Huayna Capac
1745 AD - Inca destroyed
1785 AD - Aztec destroyed

My GNP graph is not funny, it's further from 0 than that of any other civ

Cities built: 5
Cities razed: 46
If that ain't Mongolian!

Units built: 146 Macemen, 41 Swordsmen, 33 Catapults, 24 Galleons, 14 Axemen, 10 War Elephants, 7 Crossbowmen, 5 Warriors, 5

Keshiks, 2 Spearmen, 2 Chariots, 1 Galley, 1 Caravel
Killed: 64 Archers, 51 Longbowmen, 43 Catapults, 29 Macemen, 21 Spearmen, 20 Axeman, 19 Knights, 14 Chariots, 13 Crossbowmen,

10 Horse Archers, 10 Swordsmen, 10 Caravels, 9 Warriors, 9 Galleys, 9 Pikemen, 1 War Elephant, 1 Praetorian
Lost: 89 Macemen, 33 Swordsmen, 25 Catapults, 10 Axemen, 6 Crossbowmen, 4 Galleons, 1 Keshik

Score: 15355


Total play time - 7 hours 34 minutes

 

[dutchfire]

In hindsight, my plan didn't work out as well as planned, but it worked, so I'm not going to complain. My economy really took the toll, since I built just a few cottages, and a lot of mines. Pillage money really saved me, I even had some Keshiks just pillaging Cottages to pay for my war.

Balancing unit/ship production was interesting, I had too few ships in the beginning (obviously), but depending on the current level of War Weariness, I either outproduced my shipping capabilities, or I had empty ships waiting on the shores.

If this game shows anything, it is that the vanilla AI really sucks. I managed to get to Astronomy and launch an invasion with swords, cats, and later maces. They couldn't stop them, even though it was quite late in the game already. I didn't see a single gunpowder unit. If one of them had teched properly, and had gotten muskets, or rifles, it would all have been pretty much over. But they didn't manage to reach that level of technology before 1790 AD! The burning and pillaging hurt them a lot. What also strikes me is the sheer amount of units I had, compared to them. I managed to outproduce them by quite a lot, and only Montezuma really managed to build some useful units for counterattacking. The others were just building cats without support troops, or longbowmen.

 

[HUSch]

Sry, i can't open the save; what kind of play is that? Which patch can/must i have?

 

[dutchfire]

1.61 no mods