DG6: Complete constitution proposal

DaveShack

Inventor
Retired Moderator
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Messages
13,109
Location
Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
I hereby propose the following as the constitution for DG6, in its entirety.
Code:
We, the people of <insert name>, in order to create an atmosphere of 
friendship, cooperation, and pride, establish this Constitution of our 
beloved country. We uphold the beliefs that each citizen must 
have an equal voice in the government and ruling of our country, 
that government itself is a construct of and servant to the people,
that rules, regulations, and laws should be established to 
facilitate the active participation of the people and to make 
possible the dreams and desires of the citizens.

Article A.  All Civfanatics Forum users who register in the Citizen 
            Registry are citizens of our country. Citizens have the 
            right to assemble, the right to free movement, the right 
            to free speech, the right to a fair trial, the right to 
            representation, the right to seek to redress grievances 
            and the right to vote.

Article B.  Governing rules shall consist of these Articles of the 
            Constitution, such amendments that shall follow and lower
            forms of law that may be implemented. No rule shall be 
            valid that contradicts these Articles. The Constitution 
            amendments can be added/modified/removed when the 
            need arises. An amendment or lower form of law may make
            the provisions of an article more concrete or specific,
            in which case the more concrete or specific rule takes
            precedence.

Article C.  The government will consist of the Executive Branch, 
            Legislative Branch and Judicial Branch.

Article D.  The Executive branch is responsible for determining 
            and implementing the will of the People. It is headed
            by the President who shall be the primary Designated 
            Player. The President shall take direction from a 
            council of leaders and from other elected and appointed 
            officials via the turnchat instruction thread. The President
            shall be tasked with control of worker actions.
              1.  The Minister of Domestic Affairs shall be 
                  responsible for all domestic initiatives, worker allocation, 
                  as well as the distribution of funds, as prescribed by law.
              2.  The Minister of Foreign Affairs shall be responsible
                  for matters involving treaties with foreign nations including
                  trade embargoes, and all espionage and embassy missions as
                  prescribed by law.
              3.  The Minister of Defense shall be responsible for all
                  military strategy and troop activities, as 
                  prescribed by law.
              4.  The Minister of Trade shall be responsible for all 
                  trade, domestic and foreign, and the use of resources,
                  including gifts, as prescibed by law, except that gifts of
                  cities must have the approval of the Governor responsible for
                  the city, or Domestic Minister.
              5.  The Minister of Science shall be responsible for all tech 
                  acquisition, as prescribed by law.
              6.  The Minister of Culture shall be responsible for the construction 
                  of wonders, as well as the analysis and maintenance of cultural 
                  borders. This official shall also be responsible for monitoring 
                  Japanatica's cultural level against that of all rival nations.
              7.  In the absense of clarifying law to the contrary, the President
                  shall be responsible for any decisions which do not clearly
                  fall within the responsibility of another official, or which
                  might fall under the responsibility of multiple officials, until
                  such time that the Judicial Branch rules on applicability of the
                  law, or a clarifying law is enacted by the people.
              8.  At any time that the decisions or instructions of the government
                  conflict such that it is not possible to follow all of the
                  decisions or instructions, the President shall have the
                  responsibility for choosing a set of said decisions or instructions
                  which can be followed as a whole, and implementing them.  The
                  President shall communicate such a decision as early as possible
                  so that alternative Designated Players may act accordingly, and
                  so that the officials who have posted conflicting instructions
                  may have the opportunity to coordinate the changes necessary to
                  remove the conflict themselves.

Article E. Legislative Branch

The Legislative Branch will be formed of one House of the People and an Advisory
Council. 
      
       	1.The House of the People will be formed of the entirety of the
          citizenry and is responsible for the drafting of new Laws and
          Amendments to the Constitution.
		a.The House will present all proposed Articles, Amendments
                  and Laws to the Judicial Branch for review.
	2.The Advisory Council will be formed of the Provincial Governors.
                 They will advise the citizens of the state of their individual
                 provinces, any concerns there may be for said provinces,
                 and enumerate any goals they envision for their provinces. 
          	a.Each Governor shall determine any policies and procedures
                 needed to carry out their duties.
	   	b.Governors are responsible for the care, management,
                 use of the cities, and use of lands of a province through the
                 setting of build queues, allocation of laborers on tiles,
                 population rushes and drafting of citizen soldiers.

Article F.  The Judicial Branch will consist of one Chief Justice, one Public
            Defender and a Judge Advocate. These three justices
            are tasked with upholding the Constitution and its supporting 
            laws (if any) in a fair and impartial manner as prescribed 
            by law. The Chief Justice shall have the additional 
            responsibility to organize and conduct the affairs of the 
            Judicial Branch. The Public Defender will act as council to an
            accused individual. The Judge Advocate will act as the prosecution.

Article G
            1. All elected positions shall have a fixed term of one
            month. Each position will be granted to the candidate
            receiving the largest number of votes in that election.
            In the event of a tie between two or more front
            runners, a runoff poll shall be opened between those
            candidates only. This poll shall run for 2 days, and be
            repeated as often as needed to resolve the tie.

            2. All Executive and Legislative positions shall have a
            deputy. The Deputy will be permitted to conduct the
            affairs of the office as directed, or during a planned
            Absence of the elected official. If no instructions have
            been posted for an office within 24 hours of the upcoming
            Turn Chat, the deputy for that office may post the official
            instructions for the office.

            3. The Judiciary does not use deputies. In the event of an
            Absence, a pro-tem justice(s) may be appointed by the
            Chief Justice (or Judge Advocate if the Chief Justice if
            absent) and confirmed by the President and the 
            remaining justice if not also absent. If both the Chief 
            Justice and the Judge Advocate are absent, the Public 
            Defender may appoint pro-tems to the other seats,
            with Presidential approval.

            4. The President will appoint a citizen to any Vacant
            office. If a deputy exists for that office, the President 
            must appoint that citizen. This appointment may be 
            challenged by any citizen by that citizen posting a 
            confirmation poll within 24 hours of the appointment.

Article H.
              No person shall hold multiple positions of leadership 
              (President, Vice-President, Department Leader, 
              Judiciary, Provincial Governor, Deputy) simultaneously,
              nor shall have more than one accepted nomination at the
              commencement of the general election.

Article I.  Census, and Amending the Constitution

              1.  The census shall be defined as the average number 
                  of votes cast, dropping fractions, in each of the
                  contested elections in the most recent general 
                  election.
              2.  Ratification of Amendments to the Constitution 
                  shall require each of the following:
                a.  A poll which is open for at least 96 hours, which 
                    states the text of the proposed new section(s), 
                    the text of the section(s) being replaced, and 
                    posing the question in the form of yes / no / 
                    abstain.
                b.  A majority of Yes votes over No votes, Abstain 
                     notwithstanding.
                c.  A total number of votes greater than or equal to 
                    2/3 the census current at the start of voting on 
                    the amendment, dropping any fraction therein.
                d.  The Amendment poll must first be posted as a 
                    "proposed poll" in the discussion thread created 
                    for the Amendment. The proposed poll must exist
                    in the discussion thread for 24 hours prior to the 
                    Amendment poll being created. This gives adequate
                    time for review and changes.

Article J.  Elected officials must plan and act according to the will 
            of the people. The will of the people will be determined 
            through discussion and polls, formal or informal. If pertinent 
            discussion is done outside the scope of the DG forums, then it must 
            be documented in the Turnchat Instruction Thread 6 hours
            prior to the commencement of the turnchat by the appropriate 
            leader.
            1. In the absense of a specific request to conduct a poll, an
               elected official may act upon the will of the people as
               determined by discussion alone, or on their own authority
               if there is no significant citizen input.
            2. Any citizen may submit an initiative to the people on any
               matter, in the form of discussion or polling.  The results
               of such an initiative are not themselves binding on the relevant
               official(s) but may be used as evidence regarding the will of
               the people.

Article K. All irreversible game actions must progress during a public turnchat,
             while reversible game actions (i.e. build queues) that adhere to     
             legal instructions can be prepared offline.
            1. A turnchat instruction thread must be created at least 3 days
                before the chat.
                a. All official instructions must be posted in the current 
                turnchat instruction thread. Instructions must be clear 
                and defined.
                b. Officials must post their instructions at least one hour 
                   before the Turnchat. However, offcials may make changes 
                   to their instructions up to an hour before the chat, so long 
                   as those changes are noted.
            2. The President shall be the primary Designated Player, and
               may delegate this responsibility at any time to one or
               more individuals or offices by public announcement at least
               48 hours prior to the scheduled playing time.
                 a.  Alternate Designated Players shall be listed in priority
                     order, a "chain of command" such that the role of Designated
                     Player is passed to the first such listed player who is
                     available and willing to play.
                 b.  If the list of alternate Designated Players contains any
                     citizen who has not been elected to an office by the people
                     then any citizen may challenage that person's placement in
                     the chain of command by posting a poll challenging said
                     appointment.  Such a poll must be scheduled to complete
                     prior to the next game play session.
                 c.  If the chain of command lists individuals, then only those
                     individuals are authorized to play.  If offices are listed,
                     then the highest ranking available member of that office
                     is authorized to play.
            3. The Designated Player shall be charged with the creation 
                of a date and time for all public turnchats.

Article L.  The constitution, laws and standards of Japanatica can never 
            be contrary to the rules and regulations of the 
            Civfanatics forums. Moderators may veto any such 
            constitutional amendments, laws or standards.

Article M.  Commission of any game action by any person other than 
            the Designated Player while carrying out their duties 
            that is not instantly reversible without reloading the 
            save is strictly forbidden.
              1.  Exception: Determining options in the renegotiation 
                  of Peace agreements requires an action of acceptance 
                  or war to exit the bargain screen. This may be done 
                  but the game must be immediately closed without 
                  saving.

Article N:  Rights reserved to the people 
           As provided by Article A of this constitution, all actions not  
           forbidden by forum rules, or by this Constitution, are presumed to  
           be within the right of every citizen.  Actions prescribed by this  
           Constitution may be substituted by other similar actions, provided  
           such substitution lies within the spirit of these rules.

Article O
             The area contained within the national boundaries of Japanatica 
             shall be divided into areas called provinces, each of which 
             is under the control of a Governor as stated in Article E. of the
             Constitution. These boundries must be defined and approved by 
             the House well ahead of expansion, and may extend beyond the 
             cultural boundaries. City locations shall be determined by the 
             Will of the People.

Let's first hold discussions on this proposal here. If this gets a lot of support we can either hold discussions on the articles individually, on the whole thing, or even go straight to a vote if there are no objections. (fat chance of that, but a guy's gotta try) :hammer:
 
It looks fine with me... this is exactly what we needed. Instead of discussing everything to death, put out proposals, and discuss what we like/dislike about a proposal. Good inititive. :goodjob:

As long as we don't do a crazy variant, a 2 team MP duel, or something like that, let's work the constitution of this ... I just want to get the game started. I'm not here to bicker, I'm here to play.
 
TimBentley said:
Japanatica would have to changed in D.6, L, and O, of course (it would be nice to have the country name right before starting, rather than a couple terms later).

Oops... forgot to put "insert civ name here". :blush:
 
I would like to see a couple of changes made. *cough-Clears throat*
"Article O" needs a period.
Article N has a colon instead of a period, I am not sure if this was done on purpose. If so, it is still appropriate.
:D
Other than that it all looks good!
 
No, I don't like it for alot of reasons:

Elections/Election Office
We spent about a month working on this, where'd it go?

Judiciary:
We need stricter rules as to how the Judiciary can operate, it's the most undemocratic part in this game, and we need to change that.

Leaders:
The leadership duties are still badly defined and unclear, if it wasn't for past demogames we'd be running around with no idea what to do. What happened to science controlling space ship parts? And also what happaned to Foreign Affairs and espionage?

Definitions:
Do you know what allocation is? Well, you might, but I sure as hell don't. There is also alot of these DG only terms that would be nice if we defined them for the new people.

Alot more to come, I've got a headache right now and don't like the idea of thinking to much right now, but to put it simply, this proposal needs to be scratched.
 
Here is a preliminary constitution that I have written: (It isn't complete yet)

Code:
Government:

A - The government shall comprise of three parts. Executive, Legislative, and Judicial.

	1. The executive branch comprises of the president, and advisors.
	2. The legislative branch comprises of governors, and the people.
	3. The judical branch comprises of three justices.

B - The people, if they choose, may subtract, or add from the list of elected positions. For example, the people may decide 

to not have a trade advisor, and merge the duties of trade and foreign affairs. The people may also decide to have a City 

Planner (which would require an amendment to the constiution).

C - The Executive Branch (in the default Chain of Command Order)
	1. President -  	The President is the primary DP (Designated Player), and 
				creates discussions on generalized goals, as well discussion
				on national projects, such as, and not limited to, road/rail 
				infrastructure. 
	2. Domestic -  		The Domestic Advisor is responsible for all domestic issues, 
				including discussions on the placement of cities, provincial
				borders, assigning governors to provinces, and controlling 
				the budget thread. If a	province, or city/cities have no 
				governor, the Domestic Advisor may determine the build queue.
				The domestic advisor is also in charge of the budget, and the
				science/luxury/commerce slider. The domestic advisor may also
				order the disbanding of a city (backed by discussion and poll).
	3. Military -		The Military Advisor is responsible for creating discussions 
				and controlling all troop movements, as well as	unit escorts. 
				Should the nation be mobilized (mobolization), the Military 
				Advisor becomes the de facto president for the duration of the 
				mobolization. The military advisor may override the provincial
				build queues should that province come under invasion during
				wartime only. Once the threat is gone, that province must 
				return to its' origanal build queue.
	4. Foreign Affairs -	The Foreign Affairs advisor is in charge of foreign treaties
				including Trade Embargos, ROP, Military Alliances, MPPs, 
				espionage, and establishing embassies. The Foriegn Affairs
				Advisor also determines when to declare war or sign peace against
				or with another	nation.
	5. Trade -		The Trade Advisor is responsible for all issues relating to trade
				that involves acquiring a gold/gpt deal, maps (territory and world),
				and resources (strategic and luxuries). 
	6. Science -		The Science Advisor is responsible for discussions on research
				acquasition, and tech espionage. 
	7. Culture -		Culture is responsible for discussion on the building of wonders,
				and monitoring the culture status of all nations. During wartime,
				it may be neccesary to rush culture in a city to prevent a culture
				flip. The Culture Advisor may, provided Domestic has given an
				allowence in the budget, rush a cultural improvement only if the
				city has an AI tile within its' 21 tile radius.

D - The Legislative Branch
	1. 			The Legislative Branch is comprised of the people, and the governors.
	2.			The House of the People shall have the power to create and amend
				laws to the constitution.
	3.			The Senate is comprised of all governors, and is responsible for
				creating discussion on their respected province. The are also
				responsible for build queues, pop rushing, conscripting, and the
				arrangement of laborers and specialists.

E - The Judicial Branch
	1.			The Judicial Branch is comprised of three justices. Their duty is
				to uphold the constitution, which includes validating recently
				passed laws so that they do not violate the constitution.
	2. Chief Justice -	The Chief Justice is the head of the judiciary, and presides over
				all affairs of the judiciary.
	3. Judge Advocate - 	The Judge Advocate acts as the prosecuter during a Public Investigation.
	4. Public Defender -	The Public Defender acts in the defense of the accused.

F - General Implementation of Gameplay
	1. Elected Positions -	
			a.	All elected posistions run for 1 calendar month, from the first of
				the month, to the last day of the month.
			b.	All elected officials must have a deputy, with the exception
				of the judiciary. The deputy may be the runner up in an
				election, or appointed by the official.
			c.	All elected officials, with the exception of the judiciary, must
				provide discussions, and polls as gameplay progresses.
			d.	All elected officials must provide instructions to the DP in
				a Turnchat Thread (TCIT). Instructions must be posted before
				the start of the turnchat to be binding. If an instruction is
				posted late, the DP can decide whether or not to follow that
				instruction.
			e.	A player must not hold more than one elected position. A player
				can not hold a deputy position if they are already an elected
				or appointed official.
			f.	Elected officials may have chat representatives attend the turnchat.
	2. Appointed Positions -
			a.	All vacant deputy positions are filled by the advisor of that
				department.
			b.	Should a department have a vacant advisor, the president may
				appoint an advisor. In turn, that advisor will appoint a
				deputy after being confirmed by the people.
			c.	Should no President be elected during the past election cycle,
				or the Presidency become vacant, the people shall hold an 
				emergency election cycle for president. The Chief Justice,
				or moderator will start a special election cycle. To ensure
				that the demogame continues, the next in CoC shall be the
				appointed DP until a new president is elected.
			d.	A citizen may protest an appointed position by creating a
				"Vote of no Confidence" poll. If the appointed player loses
				in this poll, the respected advisor, or president should 
				the position be an advisor, must select another player.
			e.	A "Vote of no Confidence" poll lasts for 48 hours, and must
				be accompanied by a post in the appointment thread.
	3. The Chain of Command -
			a. The Chain of Command is as follows:
				i.	President
				ii.	Vice President
				iii.	Domestic Advisor
				iiv. 	Military Advisor
				v.	Foreign Affairs Advisor
				vi.	Trade Advisor
				vii.	Science Advisor
				viii.	Culture Advisor
				ix.	Deputies of the advisors based on steps i-viii
				x.	Governors based on first province founded
				xi.	Deputy governors based on first province founded
				xii.	Chief Justice
				xiii.	Judge Advocate
				xiv.	Public Defender
			b. Chat Representatives and citizens are not included in the CoC.
					
	4. Election Cycle -
			a.	Nominations start on the 24th of each month. The exception is
				February, in which nominations start on the 22nd.
			b.	Debates start on the 26th of each month. The exception is
				February, in which debates start on the 24th. A debate thread 
				can only be started if there are multiple nominations. Debate 
				threads must go in the citizen forum as not to push the current 
				nominations and elections beyond the first page.
			c.	Elections are held on the 27th of each month. The exception is
				February, in which elections start on the 25th.
			d.	All threads in the election cycle will start at 00:00 GMT. This
				is normally 7:00pm EDT/8:00pm EST, and the day before the said
				start of each cycle. For example, The 24th at 00:00 GMT is the
				23rd at 7:00pm EDT.
			e.	A player may only run for one elected position. 
	7. Gamefield -
			a.	Regions of the nation are divided up into sections called 
				Provinces.
			b.	A new provincial region must have 3 cities before a governor
				can be appointed. Until then, the Domestic Advisor has
				control of those cities.
			c.	To ensure a nomralized amount of governors, provinces will
				have an adjustable city limit depending on the size of the
				game world, and the landmass. The exception to this is any
				variants, such as a OCC, 5CC, or 14CC.
				
	6. The Gamesave -
			a.	No citizen shall play the game except for the designated player.
				Should a citizen play ahead, then that current save must be used.
			b.	Non-reversable actions are illegal, and constitute playing ahead
				in the game. This includes, but is not limited to, rushes, trades, 
				change in science research (C3C only), mobilization, government 
				change, espionage, embassies, bombardment and attacking enemy 
				troops, and anything that would otherwise change the outcome of
				the game, or give beforehand knowledge, such as the location of
				another nation. The exception to this rule is the renegotiation of
				peace treaties. Once a renegotiation is made, the game must be
				closed, but not saved. 
			c.	Reversable actions include adjusting of laborers, build queues,
				luxury/science/tax sliders, movement of units along rails, 
				assigning laborers to tiles. 
			d.	If needed, a model of a city or known region can be constructed 
				outside of the game in an editor to view future growth information.
	7. Turnchat Play -
			a.	A turnchat thread will be created in the main Demogame forum for
				each gameplay session.
			b.	Each turnchat thread must contain the following forms:
				i.	Title - "Turnchat X - (year)(BC/AD) - Date/Time of Turnchat"
				ii.	The first post must contain a link to the last turnchat, and
					the latest save used.
				iii.	Each successive post will be made by advisors to post their
					instructions.
				iv.	Any post made by a non-elected official is deemed invalid.
				v.	The DP must post turn 0, 5 and 10 save in the last post, as
					well as the last save played, which may be one of the three
					required save. The DP must also post a chatlog.
					1. 	Gamesaves will be in a "DG6_(AD/BD)gameyear_desc.sav"
						format. The save may be zipped.
					2.	Chatlogs must follow a "DG6_month(date)" format. These
						must be compressed (i.e., in winzip).
			c.	The turnchat will be held in a designated chatroom. The current
				chatroom is irc.irc-chat.net. This may or may not change at will,
				depending on the availability of the chatroom.
			d.	To lessen the effects of a netsplit in a chatroom, all citizens
				are encouraged to use a designated IRC server, such as goldfish,
				or rollergirl on IRC-Chat. This too, may change at will depending
				on the availability of the chatroom.
			e.	The Designated Player will be the Chatroom Operator during a 
				turnchat, and has the power to kick any citizen that is disrupting 
				the the room. The DP may also moderate the room.
			f.	All moderators of the demogame will have Chatroom Owner status.
				This is shown as a "!" in the chatroom.
			g.	A turnchat lasts for 10 turns, however, the DP may chose to extend
				play to let an event pass, such as the expiration of a treaty, or
				finishing turns of anarchy. The maximum turns the DP can extend
				gameplay is by 5 turns. The exception is during the first full 
				turnchat, in which up to 20 turns can be played.
			h.	The turnchat proceeds by the DP following the instructions given
				in the turnchat instruction thread.
			i.	Should the DP be absent 10 minutes, or has to leave, then play
				moves on to the next in CoC.
			j.	Should the turnchat start without any members in the CoC present,
				the turnchat will be delayed until a member arrives, or continue
				the next day at the same time.
			k.	A pre-turnchat preturn may be held to shorten the time the
				preturn takes. Actions that are performed during this time
				are limited to build queues, and troop movement along rails,
				as it is considered 'occuring before the game'. This is usually
				done just before the scheduled turnchat. A log of play must
				also be included.
			l.	Should the majority of the citizentry be present in a turnchat,
				a binding discussion and poll may be held during the course of
				the turnchat. A majority constitutes 2/3 of the quorum.
			m.	The DP may stop the turnchat for whatever reason they deem
				neccesary. The game can also be stopped if the majority of the
				citizentry is present and votes to stop the game. Majority again,
				being 2/3 of the quorum.


(Generic legal stuff can be added latter).
 
Chieftess, I'm not trying to be nasty, but you need to run your suggested constitution through a spellchecker. Also, Section F.3.a.iiv. should be F.3.a.iv.
 
suggestion for DS's:
change article N to:

Article N: Rights reserved to the people
As provided by Article A of this constitution, all actions not
forbidden by forum rules, or by this Constitution, nor interfere with the
rights of other citizens
are presumed to be within
the right of every citizen. Actions prescribed by this
Constitution may be substituted by other similar actions, provided
such substitution lies within the spirit of these rules.

oh yeh one small thing(i will look over article in detail later) but a few articles have titles and the others dont.... they should all have titles or none have titles...
 
I suggest we make DS's proposal the working copy of the Constitution. We can discuss and make changes to it. It seems a lot simpler to use the existing DG5 Constitution as the base document as we know the Articles already and having changes made to them (or not made to them) will be easier than learning a new Constitution. Chieftess' ideas can be added to DS's proposal, but on it's own, it requires too much work.

DS - I'm not sure what you're trying to tell us here, but Article K.2.b seems to suggest that the President (or his agent) is allowed to delegate the DP duties to someone who is not an elected official:

Code:
 b.  If the list of alternate Designated Players contains any
                     citizen who has not been elected to an office by the people
                     then any citizen may challenage that person's placement in
                     the chain of command by posting a poll challenging said
                     appointment.  Such a poll must be scheduled to complete
                     prior to the next game play session.

We have never allowed an individual who is not an elected official to DP our Turn Chats. I really don't think we should start now. Are you thinking of writing in your wife here? ;) j/k

I think this clause to Article K should be removed or replaced with one that says only elected officials may be in the CoC.
 
Cyc said:
I suggest we make DS's proposal the working copy of the Constitution. We can discuss and make changes to it. It seems a lot simpler to use the existing DG5 Constitution as the base document as we know the Articles already and having changes made to them (or not made to them) will be easier than learning a new Constitution. Chieftess' ideas can be added to DS's proposal, but on it's own, it requires too much work.

DS - I'm not sure what you're trying to tell us here, but Article K.2.b seems to suggest that the President (or his agent) is allowed to delegate the DP duties to someone who is not an elected official:

Code:
 b.  If the list of alternate Designated Players contains any
                     citizen who has not been elected to an office by the people
                     then any citizen may challenage that person's placement in
                     the chain of command by posting a poll challenging said
                     appointment.  Such a poll must be scheduled to complete
                     prior to the next game play session.

We have never allowed an individual who is not an elected official to DP our Turn Chats. I really don't think we should start now. Are you thinking of writing in your wife here? ;) j/k

I think this clause to Article K should be removed or replaced with one that says only elected officials may be in the CoC.
or we could just put the CoC in the constitution
 
I'm going to vent one frustration - stop using those nasty [ code ] tags! It's difficult enough trying to read one of these documents in the first place - we don't need the compounded problem created by an extra set of scroll bars. [ pre ] or [ list ] codes are much nicer, thanks.

That said, given no better alternatives, as anything I have in mind is either impratical or will be outright rejected as extremely radical, I like DaveShack's proposal. We'll have a better time, I think, building upon the base that we already have.
 
Octavian X said:
I'm going to vent one frustration - stop using those nasty [ code ] tags! It's difficult enough trying to read one of these documents in the first place - we don't need the compounded problem created by an extra set of scroll bars. [ pre ] or [ list ] codes are much nicer, thanks.

Agreed, I can't stand reading them with te
Code:
 tags, but I have gotten use to it lately.
 
DS: do you plan to have a CoL with your proposal? I think we should modify our current one and also we need to have the JRs done this DG put into the constitution or CoL...
 
Black_Hole said:
DS: do you plan to have a CoL with your proposal? I think we should modify our current one and also we need to have the JRs done this DG put into the constitution or CoL...

Yes, the plan is to make some adjustments to the CoL and propose it as well. It needs a bit more work than the Constitution.

The JRs this game which impact the Constitution have already been included, at least as far as I can tell.
 
Octavian X said:
I'm going to vent one frustration - stop using those nasty [ code ] tags! It's difficult enough trying to read one of these documents in the first place - we don't need the compounded problem created by an extra set of scroll bars. [ pre ] or [ list ] codes are much nicer, thanks.

I will look into other formatting options, thank you for the suggestion. :D
 
Cyc said:
I suggest we make DS's proposal the working copy of the Constitution. We can discuss and make changes to it. It seems a lot simpler to use the existing DG5 Constitution as the base document as we know the Articles already and having changes made to them (or not made to them) will be easier than learning a new Constitution. Chieftess' ideas can be added to DS's proposal, but on it's own, it requires too much work.

DS - I'm not sure what you're trying to tell us here, but Article K.2.b seems to suggest that the President (or his agent) is allowed to delegate the DP duties to someone who is not an elected official:

Code:
 b.  If the list of alternate Designated Players contains any
                     citizen who has not been elected to an office by the people
                     then any citizen may challenage that person's placement in
                     the chain of command by posting a poll challenging said
                     appointment.  Such a poll must be scheduled to complete
                     prior to the next game play session.

We have never allowed an individual who is not an elected official to DP our Turn Chats. I really don't think we should start now. Are you thinking of writing in your wife here? ;) j/k

I think this clause to Article K should be removed or replaced with one that says only elected officials may be in the CoC.

Umm, this clause makes the otherwise non-elected DPs elected, or at least approved by the people which is the same thing. The alternative is making an elected DP position which is open to everyone regardless of their holding another office.

[edit]
There is a rationale for allowing non-elected people to be DP. Suppose someone who doesn't have Conquests wants to run for President. Are the people going to be satisfied electing a President but not knowing who will be playing? Make that person the VP, you say? Well, an appointed VP isn't elected any more than an appointed DP is, right? Why not call it like it is, and say we're appointing a DP, with the same process that the VP is appointed?
 
Black_Hole said:
or we could just put the CoC in the constitution

Giving the President the right to set a CoC seems to have worked this game. If it's not in the Constitution then we gain flexibility, which is usually a good thing.
 
Chieftess said:
Here is a preliminary constitution that I have written: (It isn't complete yet)

On first reading, this goes into significantly more detail than a usual constitution, meaning it probably needs to have details extracted into a CoL. My version probably has the same fault in some places.

Further comment will have to wait until after a more detailed read and comparison to what we used before to see what, if anything, changed.
 
also article K, why not let the Pres choose whether it will be a public turnchat or played offline? You just need to make sure the president logs it no matter what.
 
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