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DG6 Discussion: I want to help the newbies

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Citizens' started by Crimso, Jan 17, 2005.

  1. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    Hallelujah.

    The problems in the DG are many, and I don't see a clearcut way that would solve them without a massive upheavel. First off, with everyone being at each other's throats, well that can be solved quite easily. Think before you type. You may not have the pleasure to think before speaking in real life, but this not instant communication, therefore, if it sounds like it might offend someone, think: is it worth it? Courtesy is key.

    As for the "shadow" movements, yes, we all know they're there, no matter how hard we try to deny or look the other way. As I see it, there's 2 ways to solve this.

    The first is by having an unbiased, inpartial moderator(s) without history in the DG (sorry CT, you've been here too long to be completely unbiased). And everyone moderated like hell. This would solve about 25% of the problem, which is better than nothing.

    The second solution, and my favorite, is to create political parties! Yes, I know it sounds contradictory, but if we allow political parties and allow such a system of government that lets political parties take power, we can then see who the "block voters" are and where they stand. It will create divisions, but don't we already have divisions? I think it would create more unity among members of the same party, and with those people who control 90% of the influence bunched together in 1 or 2 political parties, the rest of the citizens can make one giant party and squash them. Enough said :)

    I know these ideas sound stupid, but if you don't like them, :p
     
  2. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Actually, this experience has really made me dislike direct democracy, anarcho-syndicalism (yes I will post some articles so some people can get their political science 101, which is as badly needed as polling 101), and fatalist, idealist and chaos-driven systems. I would much prefer the right to form political parties, but also the right to leave these at will. If we had policital parties in the DG, which has never been before, the game could focus more on the issues and less on flaming. I cannot conceivably imagine a more brutalized environment at some stages than this DG type of politics. Let's face it, it can indeed be brutal, bureaucratic and so on.

    Political parties should still have a ban on demanding bloc votes for candidates (private election polls), but honestly, all this extreme belief in freedom of speech to the farthest extreme, barely monitored and kept in check, and having a ban on political parties? Come on, if we have never tried it before, let us try it.

    We can at least discuss it and poll it.
     
  3. Ashburnham

    Ashburnham King

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    I could not imagine a scenerio where political parties help the Demogame. All they would do is serve to further divide the players.

    But anyway, this is the newbie thread. Let's keep it to that.
     
  4. snipelfritz

    snipelfritz Crazy about the Demogame

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    Cyc's lovely intro to the DG thread should be moved. It should be stickied to the main DG forum.
     
  5. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Well, I believe it should remain here until we get some work done on it. RM's Intro is already on the main page as it was designed for DG5. The Lowdown is for DG6, so it can stay here until the new forums are put up or we complete work on it. ;)
     
  6. Strider

    Strider In Retrospect

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    @Cyc: For your intro, I would add a definition list of commonly used DG only terms (DP, TC, etc.). That might help some of the new players, also a short explanation of what the registry threads are there for would be nice also.

    Also, if were going to do the "Adopt a Newbie Program" a list of names (edited frequently) of those that they can contact should espicially go inside of there.

    Can't think of anything else, I'll likely PM you if I do come up with anything that should be added.

    Edit: List of words I can think of that should be defined:

    Turnchat (TC)
    Turnchat Instruction thread
    Designinated Player (DP)
    Alternative Government
    Tradational Government
    Election Office
    Naming Commision

    Got a feeling those two are going to be used alot in the next demogame

    All I can think of right now.
     
  7. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Excellent ideas, both Strider. I'll work on that. We really need to define WOTP come to think of it.
     
  8. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Listed below are definitions to words, acronyms, and expressions used by veteran posters. We've tried to include as many as possible,but if you find some that aren't listed, let us know.

    DP ~ Designated Player. Usually, in a Traditional government, the President or their agent. This is the single person who plays the save during a turn play session. In DG6, the DP position may be its own office if a switch is made to an Alternate government setup.

    T/C or TC or t/c ~ Turn Chat. This is a turn play session that takes place in a chat room together with any number of Demogame citizens. No one is required to show up (although it is suggested that elected Leader do) and no citizens are turned away. A t/c usually lasts ten turns, played by the DP. The DP normally follows Instructions posted by other elected Leader. A t/c is opposite of a "closed" turn play session, where the DP follows the Instructions of the other elected Leaders off-line, at the DP's discretion. Whether a play session is a t/c or closed, a log of all actions must be recorded and a summary of the session posted.

    Turn Chat Instruction Thread (TCIT) ~ This is a thread setup by the DP for elected Leaders to post their Instructions in. Every play session, t/c or closed, has an Instruction thread started for it, showing the date and time of the session, the save to be used, and other useful information the DP is responsible for.

    Chat Log ~ The text log showing the conversations of the t/c attendees and the stated gameplay actions of the DP and statistics of each turn played. Must be posted with the save and summary of the t/c.

    DG or Demogame ~ This is the Game of Democracy. You know this one already. ;)

    Traditional Government ~ We have completed 5 Demogames in which a "Traditional" Government was used. By this we mean that there is a President who has under him a Vice President and a Cabinet of Advisors. This Cabinet of Advisors match directly, or very closely to the in-game Advisors that interface with you in Civ3. The Domestic Advisor, the Military Advisor, the Culture Advisor, etc. In the DG, these Advisors are normally called Ministers. The Domestic Minister, the Minister of War, the Cultural Minister, etc. Governors have also been added to this government structure to care for the Provinces of the land at a grass roots level. Governors post Build Queues in the TCIT for each city in their Province.

    Alternative Government ~For DG6, there is a movement to break away from the Traditional Government style in an effort to make the game more interesting. Alternative Government styles have been proposed for the citizens to consider. Similar to the in-game situation of the people moving from a Monarchy to a Republic, these proposals allow the citizens to consider something new and move in that direction. Having a level of strategic planners and then a level of tactical implimenters is an example of an Alternate Government.

    Election Office ~A group of people, whether elected or appointed, that are in charge of the election process. They setup the election polls, list the administrative information necessary for elections, and make critical decisions for problems occuring in elections.

    Naming Commission ~ A person or group of people, whether elected or appointed, that are in charge of the city naming process. During a play session, when a city is created (or sometimes captured) the DP has the option of naming the city (or re-naming it). Rather than accepting the names supplied by the in-game engine, we choose to have the citizens suggest a name for these cities. The Naming Commision is responsible for having a list of names available for the DP to use for this purpose.

    More to come. Have a suggestion? Please post below or whatever.
     
  9. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Mock Polls ~ When any Constitutional issue is proposed and discussed in it's own thread, it eventually comes to the point where a poll is required to present to the people for the issue's approval (or denial). Before an Official Poll is posted in the Poll sub-forum, one is drawn up at the end of the discussion thread in order to derive the appropriate wording. This is a mock poll. No one votes in this mock poll as there are no option buttons to click on. It's just a normal post representing the first post narrative of the Official Poll that will be posted when the People are satisfied with the wording (at least the majority). This mock poll has all the information required of an Official Poll's first post. It states the reason of the poll, the explaination of the options, the amount of days the poll is open, etc. Any other important information should be included also, such as how the poll is to be interpreted and that the poll is Public. This mock poll will stay up for at least 24 hours after discussion on it has died down. After any alterations, if no one posts for 24 hours, then an Official Poll can be posted in the Poll sub-forum.
     
  10. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    I'm assuming :rolleyes: that everyone agrees with the above definitions and that no one else has any terms or phrases they wish to bring forward. I will add these to the DG6 Information thread soon.

    We really need to work on an exact definition for the Will Of The People. Any suggestions other than what is favorable in discussions and polling?
     
  11. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Please reformat as you wish, this is just the information as I see it. :D

    Will of the People, WOTP: A concensus opinion of demogame citizens regarding an issue. This may be determined in several ways:
    • Via a poll, with the majority (>50%) or largest plurality (highest vote total) being chosen
    • By discussion, in which the preponderance of comments is for one option, with no significant dissent
    • By lack of comment on a proposal after a sufficient time period (normally 1-2 days minimum), indicating that the proposed decision is agreed to

    Citizen Complaint (CC), Public Investigation (PI): A legal proceeding against a demogame citizen for alleged rule infractions. Historical references to CC / PI events in previous demogames are often used as arguments for or against proposed legislation.

    Spot Vote: A vote taken during a Turn Chat, usually to justify an action the DP wants to take with falls outside posted instructions. In some past demogames such votes were legal and had the power to affect posted instructions. In other past games, these votes were considered advisory only, with the DP having sole power to make in-game decisions not covered by instructions, and with no legal basis to change posted instructions.
     
  12. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    Cyc - nice work.

    Mock poll: Actually, some are used in other situations, where choosing one option between multiple choices. Or should be used ... I'd make the language slightly more generic - something about when a decision is being put before the people, a mock poll is used to make sure the presentation is fair and unbiased.

    WOTP: Ugh. I'm also inclined to go with the "you'll know it when you see it", but understand the problems with that. Some of us use different prescriptions in our glasses! ("Who? What? Where? I don't see anything!") To me, a discussion with strong, overwhelming support for an option is WotP (election by proclamation). Likewise, winning a fair poll by any margin is WotP. Winning a bad poll, err, ummm, yeah. That's getting fuzzy.

    Otherwise - looks good to me! :goodjob:

    -- Ravensfire
     

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