1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

DI3 (Im back O_o) - Wonderless is Wonderful

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by DisruptiveIdiot, Mar 4, 2004.

  1. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2003
    Messages:
    4,596
    I'm really not a fan of early wars, although I was forced to in games when I didn't have required resources.

    We seem to have a tough start. Expansion is slow and the land is not fertile. If we ever want to wage wars, get iron/horses first.
     
  2. barbslinger

    barbslinger Gun blast'n shot drinker

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    2,412
    Location:
    Buying a round for grumpy old men
    Check out my post 48 in AVS1 OCC game on page 3. I took a few warriors and destroyed Japan in 2800BC. Ever since then if a civ impinged on my territory it was war. It's no different than AW but it's only one civ. Surprise them with a two city grab, survive the 2-3 turn counter and then move forward again. It's only one civ and then take what you want. Even if they have swords and horses I guarantee you they are primarily building infrastructure and will switch over once at war. by the time their builds complete we will have 2-3 cities and can sue for peace and get the rest later. I would be interest in iron locations prior to war. I would also recommend at least 12-16 archers. 6-8 per city then the survivors moving on to the next city after counters. Cats would certainly help.
     
  3. Yom

    Yom Re-ese Mekwanint

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    5,551
    Location:
    Axum
    I'm not yet finished, but I didn't want to leave you guys without any sense of how far I'd gotten for so long. Here's the Log of the first 5 turns. I'll finish my turns (how many btw, 10 or 20?) by tomorrow and post them then.

    1000 BC (0) - Lower research rate and still get Lit. in 3, Change Satsuma from barracks to curragh (won't be productive in time for war)

    975 BC (1) - Osaka: Archer->Archer
    Vet Archer vs. barb horseman takes one hp and then loses all of its remaining HP!!! I'm going to withdraw the settler pair and leave the North to the Barbs.

    950 BC (2) - Tokyo: Archer->Archer
    Kagoshima: Worker-> Worker
    Lit. Next turn...

    925 BC (3) Lit comes in, turn off all research.
    We meet the aztecs with our lone warrior in the West. They know everything that the rest of the world knows.
    I'm guessing the french don't know the Aztecs, so literature, 5 gpt and 3gp goes to Aztecs at monopoly for CoL and IW.
    CoL, Lit. and 22 gp go to french for Mathematics, Mysticism and MapMaking. This reveals that the Spanish have Construction.
    Unfortunately, nothing we can offer is enough for them to part with it. They do, however, give us 145 for Lit., and Korea gives us Mysticism and 5 gp for the tech.
    We are now at tech parity (except for isabella's monopoly on construction).
    A quick survey of our lands reveals that we have NO IRON. The closest iron to us is next to Korean Nampo, so war is a NECESSITY.
    Also, according to F4, it shows up under resources, so the iron is connected to their capital and most likely their entire empire. This is truly bad news. We'll have to get along with our archers and hope they haven't built any swordsmen yet.
    In hindsight, using gpt wasn't very smart, as other nations may make demands of our gold. However, at the time, I thought we would need to use gpt in the deal, and so I tried to save the gp for trading with Korea (in case we're ready before 20 turns).

    900 BC (4) ZzZz...

    875 BC (5) Osaka: Archer->Settler (either for new cities at spices or replacement for P'yongyang)
    Nara founded.
     
  4. barbslinger

    barbslinger Gun blast'n shot drinker

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    2,412
    Location:
    Buying a round for grumpy old men
    I don't even see it on the screenshot here so it must be far away in the west. We're you taking the settler to north of the lake for the staging city?
     
  5. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2003
    Messages:
    4,596
    Who has iron/horses?

    Does one of our neighbors have it? If so, capture the city, hold it and sue for peace, and they will be deadmeat without the resources.

    Good trading. That's why we need contacts. :D
     
  6. Yom

    Yom Re-ese Mekwanint

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    5,551
    Location:
    Axum
    Nara is our future capital, and the other settler is waiting inside of it for the razing of the Korean city next to it, but I could temporarily redirect our archers to take out the 2 barb horsemen so we can found at the Northern Site if it's that important (Korea has a settler pair going there right now actually, so we could just capture it from them in the war). As for taking foreign resources, Korea's iron is actually pretty far. In fact, its one of their farthest cities from us, so taking it and suing for peace wouldn't be a possibility. France has no Iron that I can see.

    Also, should I play 10 or 20 turns? Usual SGs turns are 10, but I noticed Barbslinger played 20 as well...
     
  7. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Messages:
    4,381
    Location:
    Australia
    Everyone played 20 turns so far, so continue that cycle Yom. Then we better go down to 10t each.

    Good work on the trade, gpt is only gold and we have no real use for it except to feed those greedy AI's :) And if we get techs for it, all is good.

    No iron or horses is bad, now we'll need some awesome marksmen!

    Mimicking a parrot: "France has horses, France has horses"
     
  8. Yom

    Yom Re-ese Mekwanint

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    5,551
    Location:
    Axum
    Turns Continued... I decided 20 turns would be a bit long, so I played 15. The next player should probably play 10 as he will be at war with the Koreans throughout his turn.

    Oops...forgot to set min research on Republic on turn 3, start that now, at a cost of 2 gpt
    850 BC (6)
    Hmm..scratch that research, Aztecs have republic, and I'm sure they'll trade it to spain for Construction.

    825 BC (7)
    ...or not. I guess the Aztecs don't know the Spanish even though they're right next to each other.
    Argh...Spain is doubtful for our entire economy (plus more w/ all of our citizens as taxmen) and Aztecs are insulted...no 2 for 1 possible.
    In other news, we meet a roaming Egyptian warrior near the Aztecs. Unfortunately, she is completely backwardand poor, lacking Philo, CoL, Lit., and HB.

    800 BC (8) Kagoshima is producing some shields now, so its build is changed to a barracks.
    Spain now also has Currency (how is she researching so fast???), which she will part for in return for all our gold and 1/2 our GPT. Wait a second...Korea has Currency and Construction as well (that explains the research mystery)
    Hmm..our entire (mortgaged) economy is still not enough for republic from Montezuma. I'll take a gamble here and wait one turn before making a deal, in the hope that France might buy one of the 2 techs. The only problem is, if the Aztecs meet Spain, we could be back in a tech hole.
    Also, our entire economy isn't enough for both Construction and currency from spain (or Korea) and I notice that France has Iron not visible on our map.

    775 BC (9) Unfortunately, France didn't buy either Tech. On the other hand, Spain didn't meet the Aztecs (though they just settled a city right next to one of theirs (close enough to just barely not overlap 2nd ring)
    Argh...our entire mortgaged economy is just 'close' to a deal w/ Spanish. I hate to take this risk again, but I wait another turn (and delay the settler build due next turn in osaka by temporarily changing it to a library).

    750 BC (10) And our wait pays off. Aztecs got Currency, but French got Construction. This will allow for some major trading.
    227 gp and 10 gpt gets currency from the Spanish. Currency and 114 GP gets Construction from the French. Mortgaging our economy gets us up to 20 gpt and 41 gp. No!!!!!!!! Our Construction, 41 GP, and 20 GPT is just 'close' to a deal!
    I settle for 425 gp and un-mortgage the economy. We now have 466 gp and make 8 gpt.

    730 BC (11)Kyoto:Archer->Archer (produces them in 2 turns now, but we're over our limit.)
    Osaka:Settler->Archer

    710 BC (12)Aztecs complete Mausoleum in Tenoch. We now have 8 Archers outside Wonsan and our new Archers are being sent outside P'yongyang (there are already 3 there).

    690 BC (13)Damn, P'yongyang's border's expanded, will have to withdraw troops.
    Spain now has polytheism and is in the Middle Ages. They won't part with it for anything, and no one else has it.
    Also, we are now losing 1 gold per turn due to unit costs. The new city (to be founded in 2 turns) should take care of this, as should causalties in the Korean war to come.

    670 BC (14)Osaka:Archer->Worker (vetoable, but coincides with growth and happiness can't be sustained w/o precious units as MP).
    Tokyo:Archer->Archer
    Massive Barbarian Uprising in the North.
    Aztecs got Polytheism and we can now afford it. However, it is really not necessary, as both owners of polytheism are the sole owners of the Republic. Hopefully someone else will buy the Republic so we can get a 2fer.
    Now losing 3gpt.

    650 BC (15)Nagoya founded at Spices, now at +4gpt
    We now have 6 troups just outside P'yongyang and 2 more on the way. Since this front is close to our core, I would probably declare war on Korea within the next 2-3 turns (our economy is hurting).

    The Save

    Edit: Can't get the image to work, so here's a link.
    War is coming
     
  9. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Messages:
    4,381
    Location:
    Australia
    I got it.
     
  10. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Messages:
    4,381
    Location:
    Australia
    The Save


    Pre-turn - Teleportation ON.
    Troops are postioned and the attacks can start in 2 turns.
    Whip a spear in Nara for 10 shields, it's defended by a warrior and a settler! :)
    Move an archer to pillage road between Korean cities.
    Move a couple of warriors around for defensive reasons.
    Swap Satsuma to spear.

    630bc - Eeeek! 24 barbhorses shows up next to the archer.
    Nara spear -> spear
    I send all archers back to Nara.
    Kyoto and Osaka grows, luxtax 10%, we're doing 4 gpt with some MM.
    Spain and Aztecs have Republic, but neither wants to part with it. Poly is around 380g, I wait.

    610bc - Well, didn't this put our warplans on hold. The barbs killed 3 archers. We have 3 elite archers, 1 elite spear and 1 elite warrior. Why did someone pick raging barbs? They rather attack our city defended by 10 units, than a korean defended by a spear.

    Kyoto and Osaka archers -> archers

    590bc - Tokyo archer -> archer
    Satsuma spear -> galley

    570bc - Kyoto archer -> settler
    Kagoshima archer -> archer

    550bc - Osaka archer -> archer
    Nagoya warrior -> worker
    Can't wait any longer and declare on Korea. Move in all available units.
    Send settler with archer after them.

    530bc - Tokyo archer -> archer

    Attack Wonsan - elite archer kills spear and raze the city.
    Attack Pyongyang - vet archer kills spear and we take the city.
    Remaining 8 archers move on towards Seoul

    Egypt suddenly got some gold, I sell Lit for 71g
    Neither Spain or Aztecs wants to sell Republic, 577g and 9gpt is still doubtful. Sucks.
    France knows Poly.

    510bc - Kyoto settler -> archer

    Korean settler pair approaches our stack.

    Our archers capture a korean worker standing in our way.

    490bc - Korea plops down a city next to our archers

    elite archer kills spear defending new korean city and the city is razed.
    Instead we found Izumo next to the spot -> spear
    One of our archers attack a wandering korean warrior, wins and promotes to elite

    Attack on Seoul -
    archer kills spear, promotes to elite
    archer redlines reg spear and dies
    archer kills spear and Seoul is ours, set to temple so we can get the wines

    We could buy Republic for 620g and 22 gpt, but I prefer to save gold for now.

    470bc - Kyoto archer -> archer
    Osaka archer -> archer
    Tokyo archer -> archer
    Kagoshima archer -> archer

    Korea is willing to talk. They won't give away any lux-cities for peace. I do the next best thing and accept 4 1-pop cities - Pyongsong, Taejon, Ulsan and Inch'on + 57g

    Switch Osaka to settler in 5 to build a city between Osaka and Pyongyang

    450bc - Nagoya worker -> temple
    Nagasaki founded -> barracks
    Whip a temple in Seoul, costing 2 citizen. We will have wines soon.

    Trade Poly for Currency with Egypt.
    No wonder Spain and Aztecs were cocky, they both knows Republic, Feudalism and Engineering.

    Next player, change builds to whatever seems fit.
    Whip temple in Nara

    I think it's France's turn to feel some pain, we need the horses and quick, before the other civs learn Chivalry

    We have 733 gold and make 27gpt.

    We can trade - Republic for 722g and 15gpt
    Engineering for 722g and 13gpt
    Feudalism is too expensive

    We need to find those other civs!


     
  11. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2003
    Messages:
    4,596
    Great job! A bunch of archers and got 7 (or 8) cities? Including their capital? :goodjob: :hammer:

    By any chance we got iron or horses?
     
  12. barbslinger

    barbslinger Gun blast'n shot drinker

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    2,412
    Location:
    Buying a round for grumpy old men
    I'm wondering why we stopped though. Why did you stop? Were we under attack? Was war weariness a problem? We had them on the run and I think we could have taken out the iron city. Your log shows you still had plenty of archers left. Now it will be tough to get once they have pikes. We are still stuck with archers. I thought our aim was to take Korea down.
    Well, we are bigger now. The wines will certainly help. All in all, a successful, though I feel limited, campaign. We're looking a lot better now.
     
  13. Yom

    Yom Re-ese Mekwanint

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    5,551
    Location:
    Axum
    Good turns, Gozpel. Especially after that barb setback in the beginning. However, I have to agree with barbslinger that you probably should have taken the Iron to both allow us to build swordsmen and samurais and to deny it from Korea. Actually, France has BOTH Iron and Horses IIRC, so maybe we don't need that Korean Iron. Next up: France :D
     
  14. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Messages:
    4,381
    Location:
    Australia
    Yes, I know, it was too early. The only thing I can think of now, is that the iron city would be autorazed. So what? We can build settlers. Duh!

    I have a bad cold and messed up a couple of turns today and yesterday. I need a break :)

    To fix this, I suggest we attack France and take the horses then go back and take koreas iron.

    Meanwhile we have a little time for infrastructure and workers.

    Sorry I stopped too early, should've just left it to next player.
     
  15. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2003
    Messages:
    4,596
    DisruptiveIdiot, you are up.
     
  16. DisruptiveIdiot

    DisruptiveIdiot Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    319
    Oh my god I forgot completely about civ, skip me, I didnt Get It fast enough, rules are rules. It'll never happen again.
     
  17. Yom

    Yom Re-ese Mekwanint

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    5,551
    Location:
    Axum
    Next up would be....microbe

    Gozpel - Just played
    DisruptiveIdiot - Skipped
    microbe - Up
    Barbslinger - On Deck
    Yom - Chilling :)

    Sorry for taking your powers as SG host, but I've always wanted to do that :D.
     
  18. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2003
    Messages:
    4,596
    OK, I'll play it either tonight or tomorrow night.
     
  19. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2003
    Messages:
    4,596
    Pre-turn: check around. Our power is at top, and Korea has only 4 cities left. Great, that means we can take it out after 20 turns easily. The downside is that we'd have to use archers to take France? Fine. And we are culturally strong? OMG, don't remember when was the last time I had so much culture so early. Great job guys!

    I move our SoDs of archers to the north..

    We are still building archers? I switch Tokyo to Aqueduct, and Kyoto to Statue of Zeus, nope, marketplace (oops, remember we are wonderless). We need to start building infra. Nagsaki to cat.

    We can buy Republic. But I'll wait a couple of turns to see if we could meet anyone.

    Press enter.

    IBT: Seoul temple -> worker. Kgoshima archer -> market.

    (1)430BC: Nothing, more movement.

    (2)410BC: zzz

    (3)390BC: Tokyo has 6 pop, lux raised to 30. This is weird, 20lux=8g, 30lux=15g, 40lux=18g??

    IBT: Osaka settler->settler

    (4)370BC: zzz

    (5)350BC: zzz

    (6)330BC: We spot a blue border and 4 barb horses..

    IBT: Kyoto market->spear

    (7)310BC: We meet Germany! They have Republic, Feudalism, Engineering too. Republic is NOT getting any cheaper!

    Wines online, we now have 3 lux (the 4th is also coming), so we drop lux to 0 and hire one scientist in Tokyo.

    IBT: Satsuma galley->Aqueduct.

    (8)290BC: It's standard map so I think we've met everyone. Should I buy Republic? Nope, France has it now! We can get a concession from her. :)

    Aztecs has Monarchy.

    I declare war on France and enter her territory.

    (9)270BC: Kyoto spear->spear. Osaka settler->settler. Inch'on worker->worker.

    IBT: Our galley defeats a bab galley but is sunk by another. :(

    Nagoya temple->market.

    (10)250BC: we are now next to Paris (it has horses). We see a reg spear on top. :lol:
    Spices online. Egypt also has Republic. We buy a worker from Germany for 116g.

    I'll play up to 15 turns as I want to capture Paris. :D

    IBT: Seoul worker->worker. Kyoto spear->spear. Shoot, Nagasaki disorders.

    (11)230BC: vet archer kills reg spear, loses 1hp and promotes. vet archer attacks reg spear, redlines but wins, and we capture Paris?! What a defense a capital has! I am vastly disappointed! I spent 10 turns moving my SoD and that's it??!! :rant:



    I keep the city as our culture is strong. We've got horses.

    I let elite spear and 2 archers guard Paris and other archers move on toward the silks city.

    (12)210BC: I switch Kyoto from spear to library - we'll need to do our own research soon.

    I let governor manage Paris' mood for now until the resistance ends.

    IBT: Pyongyang temple->library. Tkoyo Aqueduct->market. Nara temple->market.

    (13)190BC: all units sit next to Orleans.

    (14)170BC: vet archer loses to reg spear but redlines it. vet archer kills reg spear. elite archer kills 1-hp spear. Orleans is ours and we've got iron!



    I fire the scientist and raise sci to 10% instead.

    IBT: France wants to talk, I refuse. No attack - just saw two warriors wander around.

    (15)150BC: archer kills an elite warrior.

    To the next leader:

    We have 3 archers next to Tours. They should be enough to take it from the past experience. :D If you want to be conservative (PNG might be bad for us), however, you can wait for the reinforcement.

    We can get Republic from France for 250g NOW, but by taking Tours we'll pay less. Go as far as you could in the war and in the concession get Republic and if possible get a couple of cities in the east (but republic is the top priority!), then revolt immediately.

    I founded Yokoama. There is another settler in the middle and you are free to send him to either north or south-east. We are not building any settlers now, but we probably should. There are some islands in the north that we probably want in the future.

    Our peace treaty with Korea will end in 4 turns. I suggest we put one stack of archers next to Namp'o (the iron city), and the other stack next to Hyagsan (not need to be many, 4-5 at most - we can use archers in cities around it to speed it up). Before we declare and enter his territory, however, I suggest selling Polytheism to Korea for whatever he could offer, and he will get a free tech. We then declare and get a discount on that tech (without iron even if they get Feudalism they wouldn't be able to build pikeman or MDI).

    Be sure to connect the horses/iron to our capital.

    Also we need more workers. Paris looks like a good worker factory.

    Good luck!

    DI3-150BC
     
  20. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2003
    Messages:
    4,596
    Just to remind that I set Paris and Orleans to governor, be sure to change back after the resistance is ended (in fact Paris has ended already).
     

Share This Page