Die-Trying Challenge

[Garand]

Hello all and welcome to my first role-playing challenge. I'm a long time poster and player and have always enjoyed the role-playing aspect of Civilization. My favorites involve putting myself in interesting, sometimes impossible, situations and then seeing how far I can get. After a long history of playing these types of games, and some inspiration from reading MadScientist's RPC's, I have decided to try my own out. I'm looking to take on several challenges, especially ideas from other posters, and make this a regular thread if I can stir up enough interest.

My first challenge: The Die-Trying Challenge. I've played these types of scenarios before in the past but never documented them (I have some great stories about them though!).

THE SETTING

I will be playing Ragnar and my challenge is to be a quintessential Viking barbarian . I will be stuck in the pre-middle ages, living the traditional Viking life and defending my lands at all costs. Just how long can I maintain my Viking traditions in a progressing world with rifles and aircraft? Or will I even survive that long? Let's find out!

THE GAME
- Large map
- Elevel total civilizations
- Noble difficulty level
- I'm leaning towards Islands so we have our own "territory" that we must defend without getting dogpiled early on. However I'm open to suggestions!
- Raging barbarians: We have to fight... for the right... to be the head barbarian!
- Cold climate - We shall be the scourge of the tundra.
- Epic speed - So we have ample time to enjoy primacy before the world passes me by.
- Complete Kills - The Viking way dies hard!

Please recommend any other rules or ideas you have for the setting!

THE RULES

Now the interesting part! What we can and cannot do to make this a real Die-Trying challenge. Please post your recommendations for rule changes or ideas!

- Ragnar must delineate the area that is the "Viking Homeland" which must be defended at all cost from foreign incursion! (Island maps make this easier)
- Ragnar can research at maximum speed up to Metal Casting and Iron Working (not writing). Upon completing these technologies, the science slider is set to 0% for the rest of the game. If we have any allies, should we accept gifted techs?
- Foreign ships in our waters are acceptable, however ANY foreign incursion onto the sacred homeland by foreign units must be swiftly destroyed, especially colonization attempts. We may seek peace afterwards.
- Those coastal cities with their comely lasses and loot are impossible to ignore. Poorly defended coastal towns that we come across must be sacked and razed when the opportunity presents itself (Open to recommendations on this one, it may be a quick game-ender for Ragnar! Maybe we can just take them and then give them back?)
- Ragnar may trade for cash and resources, however we may not trade away military-oriented resources (Iron, copper and horses).
- Ragnar can have open borders for foreign ships but cannot allow foreign personnel in the Viking homeland (also problematic to enforce).
- All civics technologically available are allowed.
- Stonehenge is the only wonder we can build. All others are forbidden.

Please give me your ideas for rule changes that will make things easier to handle, or ideas to change the rules so Ragnar doesn't find himself in Valhalla extremely early! Once I have a consensus on basic game settings, I will create the game and post screenshots. I'm looking forward to a lot interest in this game and think it will be a lot of fun to play and hopefuly for everyone to read!

Garand

 

[CLST]

It seems silly that you will have no way of getting your UU with your tech restriction. At least your UB is attainable.

I'm not sure if it means to that you can only not research after metal casting and you can never research writing.

 

[I-imp]

New Idea: Stop teching after reaching berserkers.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

These rules...have loopholes. I could probably become tech leader while still staying within them on noble (of course I frequently do similar nonsense in mad's RPCs).

 

[timmy827]

Not counting all of the other ways to get research that TMIT alluded to, "stop researching after berskers" is very vague as it doesn't specify what other techs are allowed. Something like "all ancient /classical techs, plus CS and Machinery" is a clearer delineation. To be clear, the above restriction means that you cannot research Music, Paper, Theology, Philosophy, Feudalism, Optics, Engineering (anything after is blocked, unless I've forgotten some).

 

[bestje]

I think you will have to disallow open borders or the not set foot on homelands rule will be unenforcable.

I'm guessing you don't think you can win this then?
or are you going to try for a quick conquest win?

I agree that being able to tech zerkers is a good idea, would let you pillage a few more coastal cities anyway

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I think you will have to disallow open borders or the not set foot on homelands rule will be unenforceable.

I don't think this is true. To my knowledge the AI does not peacefully place units in player territory across continents/islands/whatever. The only time I've seen AI troops land on my island in LHC, for example, is when I abused the WHEOOHRN with a pleased AI by begging for 1 gold. That made them land and sit troops inside my borders rather than declaring due to the 10 turn rule (and they were auto-expelled upon declaration once the peace treaty passed ). I don't think the AI will even use missionaries (although you get religious auto spread no matter what).

 

[budweiser]

You would have to stop the research line at Polytheism, never taking Monotheism and go for the win before Renaissance. Do not allow yourself any gunpowder units. That should limit you sufficiently.

 

[Garand]

Okay, in response to some concerns and ideas:

The berserker thing was an oversight on my part - I intended to be able to get berserkers but didn't realize they were farther down the tech line than I thought. So the amended technology rule would be the ability to research at all speed up to Iron Working, Writing and Metal Casting. After that, I can research only that which is needed to obtain berserkers, which is Mathematics, Code of Laws and Civil Service. At that point, all research stops - and I cannot trade for any technology that violates this rule.

I think I have also decided to disallow receiving technology through peace treaties or as gifts from the AI should that occur.

In turn, I will continue with the Stonehenge-only wonders rule, and would change the civics rule so that I can only use slavery and organized religion.

The original game I envisioned did not even having winning as a goal - it was simply to grow the empire and research up to a point, then cease and see how long I can last in a continually progressing world. Not sure of the entertainment value of this, but personally I think it would be pretty entertaining to see if I can survive, by hook or by crook, at least up to the industrial era, and have some misadventures along the way.

The rules I envision to accomplish this without going for the win would be:

- I must declare war when an enemy attempts to land or settle (except missionaries) within the Viking homeland.
- I may declare war if I find the opportunity to invade a poorly-defended or rich coastal city and destroy its improvements. After taking this city I may attempt to obtain a peace settlement. I should try to return the city if possible.
- Open borders are acceptable but any attempt by a foreign power to put units other than missionaries on my soil will result in a declaration of war and an attack on those units.
- I may enter into alliances with other civilizations.


To BestJe and MeinTeam - I'm going to do a little play testing to see if the above rules are feasible.

I would appreciate any other input, advice, ideas, or questions anyone may have. My primary goal with this is to have fun and make it as interesting and entertaining as possible for everyone else to read and participate in! Once I playtest and confirm the rules we've laid out, I will start the game and post screenshots. Thanks all!

Garand

 

[mzprox]

I like your idea, a few comments:
-I'd also make that way that we cannot keep the conquered cities, maybe maximum one/continents and we shouldnt raze them too (the option: no city raze should be checked). We either just let them retake it or give them back after the peace teatry (only gold can be accepted from our enemies)
-I think we may need a good money sink. Sure we can not make anything with our money but it would be nice if our pillaging would give us some benefit: to be able to maintain our army/cities etc. Maybe we should put 100% on spying after we got all the techs we could have. (or if it's too much maybe just 50-70%)
-this wouldnt be a winnable game, the goal is to survive as long as possible by harassing the other civs to slow down their research
-I don't know the map settings, but all civ should be reachable by our galleys
-i may allow monarchy otherwise i agree: we should get writing/metalcasting/iron working column, and after that what is really necessary for berserks

 

[Garand]

I like your ideas Mzprox. I've already done a little play testing and I'm afraid that I may have to amend the tech rules to include Monarchy as a researchable technology in order to obtain and use Hereditary rule. I've been almost paralyzed on noble level due to disorder in the cities - my capital is size 8 and there are three discontents, my second largest city is 7 and there are also three discontents. This is due to no access to religion and absolutely NO luxury resources in my vicinity.

On top of that, I am playing islands and I actually cannot sail far enough away to find other civs. I can visit various islands near my home island, but there are no civs within reach of galleys.

So I agree with not being able to keep conquered cities. My goal is not to conquer and expand, just to raid cities for gold and then turn them back over. If I can't get a civ to agree to peace after taking one city, I may have to continue taking cities until they agree to peace, and I will turn the cities back over to them as well.

Espionage might be a good money sink in order to slow down the AI through disorder and destruction of buildings and production. We can also use our money to buy off an enemy from attacking us.

And lastly, Mzprox hit the nail right on the head - the goal is not to win, it's simply to survive as long as I can against what will eventually be technologically far superior rivals. Hence the name - the die-trying challenge.

Anyway, I'm going to continue play testing these rules and then I will post my results, decide on the final rules and begin play! Keep giving me ideas and advice, it really helps!

Garand

 

[v8_mark]

So the amended technology rule would be the ability to research at all speed up to Iron Working, Writing and Metal Casting. After that, I can research only that which is needed to obtain berserkers, which is Mathematics, Code of Laws and Civil Service.

...and Machinery

I'll be watching, this sounds like a lot of fun.

 

[Terrance888]

Always keep a few Galleys with Triremes stocked with Settlers and warriors.

Colony Group rawr!

 

[Garand]

Well, after some play testing, I've determined that the AI will accept their cities back during peace negotiations, the only problem is that the AI typically will not negotiate for a few turns, so I will have to hold cities for a period of time before I can negotiate for peace and then turn them back over.

I also tested the theory of AI's not offloading units in player territory with open borders. I gave the AI both military units and missionaries in boats offshore and they simply sailed off.

My final question on tech is should I allow either calendar (plantations for luxury goods and to reflect Viking tradition of exploration) or monarchy (hereditary rule and wineries) to provide some happy faces for my cities? Or neither? Or both?

In the mean time while we hammer out the final rules, I have created our game. Noble difficulty, 10 AI's, No razing, raging barbarians, and complete kills. And here's the start!



So give me your advice on the starting location, your input to help solidify the rules before we proceed, and then we'll find out how Ragnar fares!

Garand

 

[I-imp]

if it twas me, I would send the scout 2 W to see whats over there. If something interesting, settle in place.

 

[Abegweit]

Interesting premise!

I suggest that, aside from techs that lead to Berserkers, you allow Monarchy, Agriculture, and Sailing. Calendar is out. Too far down the tree.

I think I will shadow this one and actually try to win the game. This means that techs leading to Astronomy will also be allowed.

 

[Soirana]

I've checked map, there is no need for Astro, you can reach alll you need by galleys and cultural bridges...

On oble i ma pretty sure it is possible to rule world with berserkers only.

 

[Abegweit]

I've checked map, there is no need for Astro, you can reach alll you need by galleys and cultural bridges...

On oble i ma pretty sure it is possible to rule world with berserkers only.

OK. Forget Astro. If so, I'll stand by the restrictions I set out earlier. Mono, Ag and Sailing. Agreed that berserkers should be enough. Should be fun.

 

[timmy827]

Okay, in response to some concerns and ideas:

The berserker thing was an oversight on my part - I intended to be able to get berserkers but didn't realize they were farther down the tech line than I thought. So the amended technology rule would be the ability to research at all speed up to Iron Working, Writing and Metal Casting. After that, I can research only that which is needed to obtain berserkers, which is Mathematics, Code of Laws and Civil Service. At that point, all research stops - and I cannot trade for any technology that violates this rule.

Technically this means fishing and sailing are not allowed

 

[Garand]

Technically this means fishing and sailing are not allowed

It was previously stated in the rules that I could research everything in the trees up to writing, iron working and metal casting, and that after that point I could only research that required for berserkers. However I'm going to amend that and include monarchy for heridatary rule.

My only other concern at this point is an issue I realized while play testing - once I have obtained all technology that I am allowed by the rules, I quickly run out of things to build in my cities - eventually they are just building military units every single turn, and this of course leads to massive army upkeep costs. One last rule amendment I would like to consider is allowing Currency solely for the purpose of being able to produce wealth rather than have to build military units and delete them every single turn. Any thoughts on this?

I'm hitting the sack now but I intend to start play tomorrow and post my updates with screenshots. Wish me luck!