Difference between plot owner and cultural owner?

[Baldyr]

This is only Python related and might also be obvious for most people, but looking at the API I find these two functions/methods:

CyPlot.calculateCulturalOwner()
CyPlot.getOwner()

Both return playerType and I don't immediately realize why they wouldn't always return the same value for a given plot in a given situation?

Or to rephrase the question: Isn't the plot owner always the player with the highest cultural presence on a tile?

(I'm doing a check that looks up if a player has reached a certain cultural presence on a plot. But it would also look up whether or not the player is the culturally dominant one. The reason I'm asking this is that there is already a check in place for the plot owner - but maybe that is always the same player as the "cultural owner"? So it would be kinda redundant.)

 

[Afforess]

In BTS yes, in some mods, No.

For example, in AND, units can claim territory, and the tile goes to the claiming unit's owner, and ignores the amount of culture (if any) in the tile. So the highest cultural owner may not actually own the tile.

 

[Baldyr]

In BTS yes, in some mods, No.

This makes me wonder which is the case with RFC then... Rhye is doing some funny business with culture, I know that much. Maybe even forcing some plots to belong to "historical" owners rather than the whoever is the culturally dominant player. I dunno.

So I think I'll include the check just in case!

 

[Baldyr]

And what about city plots? At least in theory a city could belong to a Civ without the dominant cultural value on the actual plot, right? Would such a city count as culturally belonging to another Civ?

 

[Afforess]

Yes, but city culture and plot culture are different.

 

[Baldyr]

But... The city plot still has both city culture and plot culture, right? Is ownership really based upon plot (as opposed to city) culture?

 

[Afforess]

Plot ownership in BTS is determined by plot culture... except for the tile the city is on top of, which is always the city owner's plot.

 

[Baldyr]

Then, finally, this brings us to the $100000 question: What does CyPlot.calculateCulturalOwner() return for a city plot then? The player that has the most culture on that plot (not city) - or the player who owns the city - and thus the plot.

(I guess I could just do some experimenting of my own, but you might actually know the answer to this!)

 

[Afforess]

No idea. Probably the city owner, in 99% of cases.

 

[Baldyr]

...and this would probably vary with mods and so on.

 

[God-Emperor]

In BtS the plot owner is not necessarily the cultural owner. Even if a vassal owns a plot culturally, their master can claim it if it is in the BFC of one of their cities. I'm not certain this results in different values being returned from these two functions, but I would guess that it does. You should check the returns of these functions in such a case.

 

[Baldyr]

In BtS the plot owner is not necessarily the cultural owner. Even if a vassal owns a plot culturally, their master can claim it if it is in the BFC of one of their cities.

Good point!

 

[EmperorFool]

The plot owner determines the color of the shading of the cultural outline and whose units can move into it freely. There are two cases where the plot owner is not the cultural owner. The first was just mentioned by GE.

For the second it is important to understand that to be eligible to own a plot a player must have a city with a large enough border to cover the plot. This condition fails when a player loses a city near their border. Any plots that were covered by that cities border alone (for the player) switch to the next highest cultural owner, of course applying this and the vassal rules to them as well.

This is why you can take territory from a neighbor during a war by taking border cities. They will still be the cultural owner of the plots you take, but you will be the plot owner of the plots far enough away from their remaining cities.

 

[Baldyr]

This all makes perfect sense once you spell it out. The difference between plot and cultural ownership is actually interesting and has potential for modding. Like having a Spy mission that spawns insurgents in such border areas...