Differences between Chinese and Western education systems

[PiMan]

I very much realise that. Which is why I only took one subject different to that list (accounting over chemistry). I have lived in Australia all my life and have no Asian ancestry that I know of, but like the stereotypical Asian, I have poor (written) English skills and I am great at maths.

My point was that the group of subjects I listed is known as the "Asian five".

 

[Bast]

This is actually a very interesting topic. I was talking to a Chinese friend of mind and we were discussing about the differences. You'll find that there's a great deal of differences in how particularly languages and sciences are taught. How one is better for one type of subject. I don't have time right now but I'll come back to it.

 

[PhroX]

Do you guys realize that to people who are good at math, those are the exact courses to take to minimize work? It goes doubly true if said person also sucks at English. The English class probably requires more effort on the part of the student than the rest of that lineup combined.

I'll support this. When I did my A-Levels, I did Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry. Why? Because I'm lazy and I knew those were the courses I could complete with the least amount of effort - I've just always been good at those subjects. I had far more of a "life" than if I'd chosen things like Art or History or English Lit.

And in case anyone's wondering, I'm British. No Asian in me AFAIK

 

[plarq]

It's the analytic and mathematical mind.
The opposite is the artist mind.

 

[Camikaze]

Sure, we aren't saying it is bad (as I've said, over half my units are Maths-ish), but the point is, that it seems that people of an Asian background are generally better at these subjects, and not quite as good at the more abstract subjects.

 

[Dachs]

It's the analytic and mathematical mind.
The opposite is the artist mind.

Which one do I have?

 

[Camikaze]

Which one do I have?

You are a 'special' case, Dachs.

 

[PhroX]

Oh certainly, all people are better at different things. My point (and I presume nihilistic's) was more a counter to people presenting maths & sciences as "hard work, no life" subjects - most people I know, including myself, who did these subjects did them because they find them easy, not because they thought they were "better" subjects to have grades in or such.

 

[Camikaze]

Sure, but it doesn't make it any less fun to stereotype.

 

[Dachs]

You are a 'special' case, Dachs.

Damn straight.

Oh certainly, all people are better at different things. My point (and I presume nihilistic's) was more a counter to people presenting maths & sciences as "hard work, no life" subjects - most people I know, including myself, who did these subjects did them because they find them easy, not because they thought they were "better" subjects to have grades in or such.

Yep. Good point.

 

[nihilistic]

Sure, we aren't saying it is bad (as I've said, over half my units are Maths-ish), but the point is, that it seems that people of an Asian background are generally better at these subjects, and not quite as good at the more abstract subjects.

What subject are you talking about that can be classified as more abstract or context-free than math?

 

[Camikaze]

What subject are you talking about that can be classified as more abstract or context-free than math?

English is more abstract.
Modern History is more abstract.
Music is more abstract.

These subjects don't have as many solid facts. They are not as 'pure', if you will. They are more open to interpretation and subjective analysis.

 

[Ecofarm]

What subject are you talking about that can be classified as more abstract or context-free than math?

Math is neither abstract nor context-free in its essence. It is the only pure science. Why pure? We know its boundries and laws precisely because we invented it. The context is entirely man-made so there is no wonder what is out there or beyond our perception. There are no numbers we cannot see or fail to understand because we created it. In this sense, math is very context bound and experimentation never fails on professional or ethical limitations. The science is pure because it is without unknowns. It's the only such science. E = mc2 is not a mathmatical revelation.

 

[Camikaze]

 

[nihilistic]

English is more abstract.
Modern History is more abstract.
Music is more abstract.

These subjects don't have as many solid facts. They are not as 'pure', if you will. They are more open to interpretation and subjective analysis.

I'm not sure you know what "abstract" means. The first 2 definitions (especially the second one) from Dictionary.com both suit he technical use of it well:

1. thought of apart from concrete realities, specific objects, or actual instances: an abstract idea.
2. expressing a quality or characteristic apart from any specific object or instance, as justice, poverty, and speed.

The information content of math is 0, in that if we were to lose all our knowledge of mathematics today and be forced to come up with a replacement, the replacement will not be different than what came before. That cannot be said about the three items you listed: english, modern history, or music.

Math is neither abstract nor context-free in its essence. It is the only pure science. Why pure? We know its boundries and laws precisely because we invented it. The context is entirely man-made so there is no wonder what is out there or beyond our perception. There are no numbers we cannot see or fail to understand because we created it. In this sense, math is very context bound and experimentation never fails on professional or ethical limitations. The science is pure because it is without unknowns. It's the only such science. E = mc2 is not a mathmatical revelation.

What are you a postmodernist english major? You managed to produce a 10 sentence paragraph without saying anything or demonstrating that you understands anything. Juxtaposition of keywords only work on people who pretend to know their stuff.

@Camikaze - Uhh ... so ... is your quoting of an xkcd cartoon supposed to be analogous to Ecofarm's keyword soup?

 

[Ecofarm]

What are you a postmodernist english major? You managed to produce a 10 sentence paragraph without saying anything or demonstrating that you understands anything. Juxtaposition of keywords only work on people who pretend to know their stuff.

Postmodernist interdisciplinary ecology major. I'll try to make it simple: the context of math is defined exactly. Exactly. There are no unknowns.

As far as it being abstract in the sense of not relying on other things, well, sure.

 

[Camikaze]

1. thought of apart from concrete realities, specific objects, or actual instances

I think this is a fairly accurate meaning for what I'm saying. Saying that Shakespeare is portraying belonging through his use of the mystical forest in 'As You Like It' is more abstract (apart from concrete realities) than gravity, or 2 + 2 = 4.

@Camikaze - Uhh ... so ... is your quoting of an xkcd cartoon supposed to be analogous to Ecofarm's keyword soup?

It is supporting the point of purity.

 

[Dachs]

I think this is a fairly accurate meaning for what I'm saying. Saying that Shakespeare is portraying belonging through his use of the mystical forest in 'As You Like It' is more abstract (apart from concrete realities) than gravity, or 2 + 2 = 4.

Gravity isn't math, it's physics, which is applied math.

I think you're trying to say that quantifiability and abstraction don't go together.

 

[Camikaze]

Gravity isn't math, it's physics, which is applied math.

I think you're trying to say that quantifiability and abstraction don't go together.

Well, the physics reference came from what I was originally arguing, that subjects such as Maths, Physics and Chemistry were more pure, or less abstract than, say, English, Modern History, or Music.

And yes, that is pretty much what I am trying to say.

 

[Tee Kay]

As an Asian student myself, the only thing I really have to say on this matter is that I think although from my experience Asian students do do "better", I am not sure whether this actually makes them more intelligent, more well-rounded, or prepared for the real world. In fact, many of my fellow Asian students were just as stupid and incapable as the other students. From what I know, the only difference between the Asian and non-Asian students was that the Asian students - with great reluctance - forced themselves to take harder classes, waste more time studying, and just really learn how to take tests. They were never innately more intelligent or capable, and I am not sure they were "more" prepared for the real world.

Also, at least where I come from, the stereotype of a science and math obsessed Asian is apparently true. As stated somewhere above, it is true that the American system puts more emphasis on creativity, and Asian students don't really get that. It was kind of funny for me to watch my fellow Asians do great in Physics and Calculus, but completely fall apart when learning history, or when attempting to write an essay (even those that were excellent at English).

True, but in my opinion, sometimes it just becomes too obsessive especially on the Asian students' part. And as I stated above, Asians do put less emphasis on creativity, and are somewhat conservative in their choices. At least from my experiences, the Asian students just kill themselves taking advanced level Physics, Chemistry, and Calculus classes, and fail to make themselves well-rounded in anything else.

And a lot of times this "ambition" isn't really ambition. It is really their parents - obviously. Many of these kids are just as stupid or ignorant or lazy as their American counterparts, its just that their parents fail to neglect the child's true capabilities and talents, and simply lugging hard classes, random extracurricular activities (usually piano), and such things at them. If they could, the students would really just discard all that and get wasted by video games and fast food like everybody else. In my opinion, sometimes, this parental urging doesn't really help; they don't put a lot of emphasis - or rather, enough emphasis - on the real world, just emphasis on grades and trying to outcompete the other (Asian) student. Multivariable calculus and expert piano finesse will not prepare you for the real world; learning to be a little more creative and open-minded (or adaptable, as my dad used to put it) will help you a bit more.

Quoted for (generalised) truth, although I personally know several Asian students who are well-rounded. I think I'm more of a creative/liberal type myself. I really enjoyed subjects like history (I remember myself being the only Asian in the history class). I get pretty good grades but I'm not doing the Asian Five - in place of Specialist (even the best maths student who's from China described it as hell) I took up German instead.

As someone with first-hand experience in the Asian school system, I prefer the Victorian school system, as do almost all the Asian students I've talked to. Asian-style (over) emphasis on rote learning might be okay for some people, but it make for a pretty miserable school life in general.