Differences between Chinese and Western education systems

[Teeninvestor]

Hello. I was using 1980 to demonstrate the negligable impact of a 1st or 2nd generation parent upon a student today, let alone a 1st generation student who would have come from the economic elite anyway, and should have a schooling similar to the average American's.

But the average Chinese parent has less than 9 years of schooling. Great system.

YOu realize there wasn't a system 30 years ago, eh? There was a guy called Mao in charge... and he wasn't exactly the greatest guy in the world. Some guy called Deng came in after and cleaned up his mess.

Where are you? Except they had it 10+ years before China and it is still barely equal to the US, for the very elite only. Let's face it, if someone from China can come and live in the US, they weren't farmers.

Most of the "elite" of China as of now had parents that were farmers. Back in Mao's Era, no one was rich. Most of the "elite" in China didn't get rich until about the 1980's or 1990's.

If the parents lack a decent education, then your culture argument falls apart. They are not building upon proven success academically, nor in regard to critical mind development.

First of all, there wasn't an argument in the first place.
Second of all, a parent could not have an education, but still CONCENTRATE on it. Maybe it's because they want their kids to do what they DIDNT.
Of course, many parents did have a good education as well. But in China, the education of the parent seems to matter little; all of them pressure their kids heavily.

I went to a secondary school that was about 60% 1st or second generation Asian immigrants and it is also the highest academically scoring public school in the province. But to be honest, none of the people that were successful really knew anything about what they were studying and now that I've moved on to UBC i realize that most of the 'overachievers' in high school are doing incredibly poorly.

As far as I know it seems Asian students integrate quite well. However, the whole point of this thread is to debate what are the differences between Asian and Western education systems, not which is better(as it seems some people think it is about).

 

[Ecofarm]

Most of the "elite" of China as of now had parents that were farmers. Back in Mao's Era, no one was rich. Most of the "elite" in China didn't get rich until about the 1980's or 1990's.

Thus anyone with an educational culture worth a crap is a teenager or an extreme elite.

Second of all, a parent could not have an education, but still CONCENTRATE on it.

With the child, until about the 5th grade.

Maybe it's because they want their kids to do what they DIDNT.

And maybe they should let their kids figure out how. That's likely a quicker path given China's recent history.

Of course, many parents did have a good education as well.

1.4% of the potential parents in 1980.

But in China, the education of the parent seems to matter little; all of them pressure their kids heavily.

We do as we were taught.

As far as I know it seems Asian students integrate quite well. However, the whole point of this thread is to debate what are the differences between Asian and Western education systems, not which is better(as it seems some people think it is about).

I feel the Chinese system, disregarding the Asian specificity, is hardly a reasonable example unless we look at 21st century improvement - but not quality. Even Euros envy a Usian degree. I'll take that system, nodplzthx. Though I felt a masters in environmental science from europe was/is a good idea.

 

[Teeninvestor]

Thus anyone with an educational culture worth a crap is a teenager or an extreme elite.

You seem to think that people without an education would not care for it. That is simply not true. Anyone that has been to China can see the emphasis they place on education there. Did you even read my OP?????

And by the way, until recently, the Chinese education system was designed to only steer the most talented students into university--- the rest out. It hasn't been that way for about 20 years, but that can also contribute to the reason for a rather low university attendance rate there. I suspect this can apply to other asian countries.

 

[Ecofarm]

Anyone that has been to China can see the emphasis they place on education there.

There's a differece between placing emphasis and working maniacally with terrible dimishing returns.

Did you even read my OP?????

I read the beginning/premise and then scanned for a source or something I haven't heard before.

I suspect this can apply to other asian countries.

The damage done by "love for the party" is even worse than "love of country". And love of country is only bad if it is not understood and mandatory.

"Love of party" is still taught in Chinese primary school. Their minds are being clubbed. Like baby seals, they become pudding. Think of the baby seals.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I hear some countries make their students salute the flag or something as well, how terribly quaint

 

[Teeninvestor]

There's a differece between placing emphasis and working maniacally with terrible dimishing returns.

I doubt it.

The damage done by "love for the party" is even worse than "love of country". And love of country is only bad if it is not understood and mandatory.

"Love of party" is still taught in Chinese primary school. Their minds are being clubbed.

Ya, and civics is taught in US. I'm not convinced. At least 100% of Chinese know Iraq didn't have weapons of mass destruction....

 

[Ecofarm]

I hear some countries make their students salute the flag or something as well, how terribly quaint

One is not required to stand, salute or otherwise recognize any ceremony of our government.

 

[Theige]

At least 100% of Chinese know Iraq didn't have weapons of mass destruction....

...Source?

 

[LightFang]

I doubt it.

I don't!

Ya, and civics is taught in US. I'm not convinced. At least 100% of Chinese know Iraq didn't have weapons of mass destruction....

At least we have freedom of speech here and newspapers that are more than just party rags.

Man, you need to explain your love of Deng. I admit that he may have been a better leader than Mao because of his neo-Legalism as opposed to Mao's neo-Confucianism, but still, man, Tiananmen Square and all that.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

One is not required to stand, salute or otherwise recognize any ceremony of our government.

Fair enough. It's still quaint that they have the ceremony anyway

 

[Teeninvestor]

At least we have freedom of speech here and newspapers that are more than just party rags.

Man, you need to explain your love of Deng. I admit that he may have been a better leader than Mao because of his neo-Legalism as opposed to Mao's neo-Confucianism, but still, man, Tiananmen Square and all that

Last time, I checked cultural revolution wasn't confucianism.

Simple. Find another guy in world history that got a starving country on the edge of breakup and bankruptcy to a country that has the world's most vibrant and soon to be largest industrial sector in 30 years.

 

[LightFang]

Last time, I checked cultural revolution wasn't confucianism.

Sure it was. I know this lesson is probably wasted on you, but let me elucidate something: China, throughout its history, has been divided between the Confucianism and Legalism. Confucianism is the idealistic philosophy; Legalism is like realpolitik. Mao was acting as a neo-Confucianist and Deng was acting like a neo-Legalist.

 

[Mowque]

Last time, I checked cultural revolution wasn't confucianism.

Simple. Find another guy in world history that got a starving country on the edge of breakup and bankruptcy to a country that has the world's most vibrant and soon to be largest industrial sector in 30 years.

Stalin did a similar job but that doesn't make him a nice guy.

 

[carmen510]

Let us get something clear, I agree that America's education system in terms of comprehension skills is sorely lacking, which is why our math and science grades make us look stupid in comparison to Asians. (I'm Chinese, and my parents more or less agree)

HOWEVER, that is only half of the equation. America's education system has an emphasis on creativity skills. And that is of major importance. This is the reason why America was, and still is in many areas, the world's giant of R&D, and of technology. Americans have been indoctrinated to be creative, allowing us to think up of new inventions, business models, and encouraged us to be curious of the world around us.

On the opposite side, Asians would most likely succeed well in analytical fields, such as accountants, economists, etc. because those jobs require very little creativity.

 

[dwaxe]

One is not required to stand, salute or otherwise recognize any ceremony of our government.

Except the students are not told that they are not required to, so everyone with common sense (everyone else is doing it) does so. Until they become atheists or begin to ask questions. De facto, it is enforced until middle school.

The one detention I got in middle school was because I refused to stand up and say the pledge of allegiance. Our teacher didn't understand that you didn't have to say it, and when I explained that my problem was with the phrase "under god" and cited the first amendment, she just gave me a detention for "defiance".

"Not required", eh?

 

[Teeninvestor]

China has been divided into confucianism and Legalism throughout its history

You have some strange ideas about China. This is the 21st century, remember????
You seem to know nothing about China. Maybe this link will help you understand Mao better and his altitude towards confucianism("We must smash the four olds, destroy confucius and Lin BIao). Mao was a power-hungry guy who would do anything to hold on to power. One of the slogans of the cultural revolution was "destroy the confucian reactionaries, destroy old thought, bring in the new revolutionary" or something to that effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_revolution

Deng, on the other hand, was a reformer, a visionary. He transformed a country from the ruin of Mao(total anarchy, starvation, edge of breakup) to an industrialized modern competitive country. That's equivalent to a doctor healing a patient who just got 12 stab wounds from a knife and making him an olympic champion. It's nothing short of miraculus.

Stalin did a similar job but that doesn't make him a nice guy.

Considering Deng's China didn't go through anything similar to Stalin(Ukrainian famine anyone?), I say that makes him a nice guy.

Let us get something clear, I agree that America's education system in terms of comprehension skills is sorely lacking, which is why our math and science grades make us look stupid in comparison to Asians. (I'm Chinese, and my parents more or less agree)

HOWEVER, that is only half of the equation. America's education system has an emphasis on creativity skills. And that is of major importance. This is the reason why America was, and still is in many areas, the world's giant of R&D, and of technology. Americans have been indoctrinated to be creative, allowing us to think up of new inventions, business models, and encouraged us to be curious of the world around us.

I agree with this part. A synthesis of the two systems would be best.

 

[cybrxkhan]

As an Asian student myself, the only thing I really have to say on this matter is that I think although from my experience Asian students do do "better", I am not sure whether this actually makes them more intelligent, more well-rounded, or prepared for the real world. In fact, many of my fellow Asian students were just as stupid and incapable as the other students. From what I know, the only difference between the Asian and non-Asian students was that the Asian students - with great reluctance - forced themselves to take harder classes, waste more time studying, and just really learn how to take tests. They were never innately more intelligent or capable, and I am not sure they were "more" prepared for the real world.

Also, at least where I come from, the stereotype of a science and math obsessed Asian is apparently true. As stated somewhere above, it is true that the American system puts more emphasis on creativity, and Asian students don't really get that. It was kind of funny for me to watch my fellow Asians do great in Physics and Calculus, but completely fall apart when learning history, or when attempting to write an essay (even those that were excellent at English).

 

[Teeninvestor]

As an Asian student myself, the only thing I really have to say on this matter is that I think although from my experience Asian students do do "better", I am not sure whether this actually makes them more intelligent, more well-rounded, or prepared for the real world. In fact, many of my fellow Asian students were just as stupid and incapable as the other students. From what I know, the only difference between the Asian and non-Asian students was that the Asian students - with great reluctance - forced themselves to take harder classes, waste more time studying, and just really learn how to take tests. They were never innately more intelligent or capable, and I am not sure they were "more" prepared for the real world

The will to be competitive and the urge to success is an important factor in a person's success, no?

Also, at least where I come from, the stereotype of a science and math obsessed Asian is apparently true. As stated somewhere above, it is true that the American system puts more emphasis on creativity, and Asian students don't really get that. It was kind of funny for me to watch my fellow Asians do great in Physics and Calculus, but completely fall apart when learning history, or when attempting to write an essay (even those that were excellent at English).

Seriously??? Where i come from the enriched english class is just as full of asians as the enriched math class.

 

[cybrxkhan]

The will to be competitive and the urge to success is an important factor in a person's success, no?

True, but in my opinion, sometimes it just becomes too obsessive especially on the Asian students' part. And as I stated above, Asians do put less emphasis on creativity, and are somewhat conservative in their choices. At least from my experiences, the Asian students just kill themselves taking advanced level Physics, Chemistry, and Calculus classes, and fail to make themselves well-rounded in anything else.

And a lot of times this "ambition" isn't really ambition. It is really their parents - obviously. Many of these kids are just as stupid or ignorant or lazy as their American counterparts, its just that their parents fail to neglect the child's true capabilities and talents, and simply lugging hard classes, random extracurricular activities (usually piano), and such things at them. If they could, the students would really just discard all that and get wasted by video games and fast food like everybody else. In my opinion, sometimes, this parental urging doesn't really help; they don't put a lot of emphasis - or rather, enough emphasis - on the real world, just emphasis on grades and trying to outcompete the other (Asian) student. Multivariable calculus and expert piano finesse will not prepare you for the real world; learning to be a little more creative and open-minded (or adaptable, as my dad used to put it) will help you a bit more.

 

[LightFang]

You have some strange ideas about China. This is the 21st century, remember????

You seem to know nothing about China. Maybe this link will help you understand Mao better and his altitude towards confucianism("We must smash the four olds, destroy confucius and Lin BIao). Mao was a power-hungry guy who would do anything to hold on to power. One of the slogans of the cultural revolution was "destroy the confucian reactionaries, destroy old thought, bring in the new revolutionary" or something to that effect.

Did you even read my post? Go back and reread what I said about what Confucianism represents, and what Legalism represents. Then think about what I mean when I say that Mao was a neo-Confucianist, and Deng was a neo-Legalist.

Deng, on the other hand, was a reformer, a visionary. He transformed a country from the ruin of Mao(total anarchy, starvation, edge of breakup) to an industrialized modern competitive country.

I concede that maybe the China of Deng (and Jiang) became more open to the international economy. But, you know, so did Italy under Mussolini. That doesn't keep China from being a reactive, developmental state under Deng! And anyway, Deng found, in ancient Chinese autocracy and racial nationalism, a way to repress the masses. All I'm saying is that he's not a hero, or anything.