Diplo for D'nut

I would like to send something like this to Nutters:

Dear blah, blah
We would like to alert You about the fact that donsig of the No-Namers has crowned himself Grand Vizeer of not only Persians but also over Iroquis. This is how he ended the last mail to us :
Hope your war against the Greeks goes well.
TTFN

signed
donsig II
Grand Vizeer of the Ironic and Iroqi Peoples
As we have shown earlier an alliance between TNT and MIA is obvious, and now we're wondering if Your unwillingness to sign a solid peace treaty with us means this alliance includes 3 members? The current save shows that You are still at war with TNT which makes that unlikely, but we would be delighted by some sort of gesture from Doughnutia showing our worries are indeed groundless.
In any case, TNT seems eager to tell us "we know you will attack MIA but you will fall flat", plus they wanna make it look like You guys have agreed upon having donsig as "Grand Vizeer". Make what You will of this, but our offer stands: Join us now and we will divide the world of Meleet in two equal halves.
 
After reading that Tubs wants us to send this info to Nutters I composed and sent this through gmail:
Spoiler :
Dear Doughnutians

We would like to alert You about the fact that donsig of the No-Namers has crowned himself Grand Vizeer of not only Persians but also over Iroquis. First we mused on the cockiness of the two top lines, but then the last line seemed even more interesting. This is how he ended the last mail to us :
Quote:
Hope your war against the Greeks goes well.
TTFN

signed
donsig II
Grand Vizeer of the Ironic and Iroqi Peoples

As we have shown earlier an alliance between TNT and MIA is obvious, and now we're wondering if Your unwillingness to sign a solid peace treaty with us means this alliance includes 3 members? The current save shows that You are still at war with TNT which makes that unlikely, but we would be delighted by some sort of gesture from Doughnutia showing our worries are indeed groundless.
In any case, TNT seems eager to tell us "we know you will attack MIA but you will fall flat", plus they wanna make it look like You guys have agreed upon having donsig as "Grand Vizeer". Make what You will of this, but our offer stands: Join us now and we will divide the world of Meleet in two equal halves.
If You, to our big disappointment, already have joined forces with MIA and TNT, that would of course mean Adios Amigos for KISS, but it would leave Doughnutia holding hands with two scientific civs which would be more of a gamble than joining us and go mano a mano.
Anyways, it's all up to You of course, but we would be pleased to get a clear cut respone on our proposal as soon as possible.

All the Best

Team K.I.S.S.
 
sent by PM
To the people of KISS
Greetings from Doughnutia,

I am writing to you to address the concerns you raised in your letter to us. Firstly Grand Poohbar donsig has been using that title for quite a while in his communications with us, desipte much teasing and poking fun at his assertions, yet he still chooses to use it. Why, we don't really know but we've gotten past caring as actions speak louder than words and their actions haven't gotten them anywhere.

Secondly as to our peace talks with TNT. These do not signal any long term plan to join with TNT, we are only trying to get a strategic advantage out of them, if it is possible, if not then we will continue our war.

Finally we have always had a good relationship with you, from when we first met. And we still feel this way today. We are still happy to trade technologies once we have aquired Monarchy and we are also hopeful of coordinating research into the future as their is a very real danger of being left behind MIA and TNT. Also we have not ruled out military cooperation in the future if and when it is needed.

Our people have developed a strong bond and it is our hope for that to continue long into the future. I hope these answers have put your minds as ease.

General Robi D of Doughnutia
 
It may be worthwhile giving them techs so we have a research partner. As much as I hate doing that it would be helpful for us to have someone to work with.
 
Here is a very good conversation with Donut. I will edit as I go but I wanted to get it posted.
Spoiler :
Rob says:
hi whomp, hows it going
Whomp says:
Hey Rob
Whomp says:
I'll put on my radioactive monkey hat
Rob says:
hehe, so what did you guys say to MIA, you've got them running scared

Eldest of Idiots has been added to the conversation.

Whomp says:
yeah what's up with the save being held up?
Whomp says:
This is admiral kutzov btw
Eldest of Idiots says:
issues
Rob says:
i have no idea
Rob says:
hi ak
Eldest of Idiots says:
hi rob
Whomp says:
It must be MIA

Eldest of Idiots says:
the ghost of provo?
Rob says:
i don't know about the save no one i speak too mentioned any problems
Rob says:
someone been meesing around with my settings
Whomp says:
well they held it up and my guess is it's MIA

Eldest of Idiots says:
why
Whomp says:
do you have to check the settings in advance?
Rob says:
ginger ale said it was something to do with the rules
Eldest of Idiots says:
GA is cool, i respect him
Rob says:
well i wrote the past tense of speak and got that smiley
Whomp says:
weird. i guess we'll see what comes of it
Whomp says:
We are pissed at MIA for gifting all those techs to TNT
Eldest of Idiots says:
big time
Rob says:
they sent a letter explaining to us they did it because they were scared ouf you
Whomp says:
I've thought we should do the same with you guys
Eldest of Idiots says:
me too
Whomp says:
we need a partner

Rob says:
well we are happy to trade for monarchy once we have it
Whomp says:
and one we trust
Whomp says:
i'm saying gifting you all our techs
Whomp says:
get us both out of the AA
Rob says:
are you guys up to the MA yet?
Eldest of Idiots says:
whomp, pause and let me talk a bit
Whomp says:
we will be there after construction
Whomp says:
ok
Eldest of Idiots says:
rob, u don't play SG's right?
Rob says:
SG is save games right, if so yes im the one
Eldest of Idiots says:
succesion games
Rob says:
ahh no i dont
Eldest of Idiots says:
k. If you look at KISS, most of us do.
Rob says:
yes i've noticed that
Eldest of Idiots says:
a big part of that is preserving our reputation
Eldest of Idiots says:
we make a deal we don't break ig
Eldest of Idiots says:
it
Rob says:
neither do we, we have always stuck to our deals
Eldest of Idiots says:
the point I wan't to make is that our history is out there in the SG threads. Pick a member and go research a thread. the deals are solid. RBC rules. u and whomp may now converse.
Eldest of Idiots says:
whomp u can talk now
Rob says:
i know ak, i've done my research on all our competion
Eldest of Idiots says:
cool
Rob says:
which is good for me, since i have any advantage in this area
Eldest of Idiots says:
how so?
Eldest of Idiots says:
no history?
Whomp says:
Donsig
Eldest of Idiots says:
don't get me started
Rob says:
exactly, unless you have player MP games with me no one really knows my style
Eldest of Idiots says:
where do u play MP?
Rob says:
online
Eldest of Idiots says:
hehe, I
Whomp says:
I've never played c3c online
Eldest of Idiots says:
idiot but not that silly
Whomp says:
but I have PBEM'd
Rob says:
well they are a bit of a rush but it does helping with learning to think on your feet
Eldest of Idiots says:
whomp lost to tubs really early
Rob says:
this is my first pbem, lol
Whomp says:
that was civ4
Eldest of Idiots says:
so?
Whomp says:
so i'm making excuses
Rob says:
pbems and mp are completely different creatures
Eldest of Idiots says:
I have a 3 map for u and tubs
Whomp says:
so where were we?

Eldest of Idiots says:
Rob, I'm an old idiot. Explain the difference, please
Rob says:
pbem you have all the time in the world to look at different options, you get the time to MM the hell out of everything, MP your on a clock with simutaneous moves you need to make quick and desicive desitions
Whomp says:
i like that about pitboss
Rob says:
in the end both forms of the game let you learn different skills
Eldest of Idiots says:
i think I understand
Whomp says:
I like them all.
Whomp says:
This has been interesting though a bit slow for most on our team's taste
Rob says:
yes, but i guess thats what happens when you have a team to discuss issues with
Eldest of Idiots says:
i resemble that remark
Eldest of Idiots says:
joke
Whomp says:
I know it's just that Succession games move pretty fast even with the discussion
Eldest of Idiots says:
agree
Rob says:
yes but thats still one team, not four
Whomp says:
but it's not as unpredictable as humans
Rob says:
thats true too, just look at TNT
Eldest of Idiots says:
I was just thinking that it will be fun to see what they're thinking was for they're opening moves
Eldest of Idiots says:
change they're to their
Whomp says:
it was because we were giving Provo the business and they took it out on Donut
Whomp says:
Rob.....if we gifted you techs so we're both in the MA would you be interested?

Rob says:
i'm sure it must have been more then that
Eldest of Idiots says:
me too
Whomp says:
they wanted the continent
Eldest of Idiots says:
they mined a hill
Whomp says:
and felt they could take it with immortals
Rob says:
We did have an idea about the tech situation, hold on brb
Rob says:
sorry about that
Whomp says:
no probs
Rob says:
we might be able to get MIA's MA tech off them because whatever you guys said or did to them has got them runnig scared

Whomp says:
did they offer to gift you into the MA?

Rob says:
also all doughnutians are interested in coordinating our research in the future

Whomp says:
I agree with that wholeheartedly
Whomp says:
it's what we've wanted since the beginning
Rob says:
well they are very interested in monarchy and have offered to give us their MA tech in exchange
Whomp says:
how about we gift you all of our known techs
Rob says:
if we can get it then we can give it to you guys for your techs then we can work our way through the MA together so we can't get jumped by the other 2
Whomp says:
I like that
Rob says:
plus TNT has also been trying to be cooperative
Rob says:
might have something to do with all those MW's on the horizon
Whomp says:
Well we can help you with Luxs
Whomp says:
once you get a harbor
Rob says:
sure, we are heading towards some silks if you need them
Whomp says:
I think we're missing ivory
Rob says:
we will have a harbour in 8 turns

Rob says:
7 once this turn is finished
Rob says:
i just had a thought, could the hold up be due to the mia newspaper
Whomp says:
I don't know about that?
Rob says:
well it did carry info about your relations with them, otherwise i can't think of a reason for the hold up
Eldest of Idiots says:
what did it say?
Rob says:
before i forget we had another team discussion, if you go to war with MIA and TNT joins them we are prepared to respond in kind
Whomp says:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=154455
Whomp says:
here's the paper
Rob says:
just that your peace agreement has been cancelled

Eldest of Idiots says:
wait a few, dialup
Whomp says:
interesting
Rob says:
oh by respond in kind i mean we would join on your side if it wasn't clear
Eldest of Idiots says:
still reading, but its very amusing
Whomp says:
Well let me tell you this....they have personally, and i mean me, put me in a very bad spot.
Eldest of Idiots says:
rotfl
Rob says:
you mean with the article
Whomp says:
no with some ways these twisted my words
Whomp says:
they've
Whomp says:
so I'm not so happy with them on top of this deal with TNT
Eldest of Idiots says:
u've been an idiot
Whomp says:
nothing new there
Whomp says:
brb guys
Rob says:
ok no prob
Eldest of Idiots says:
wait for the next article. something about whomp and the harem
Rob says:
hehe, maybe you could put out a newspaper of your own
Eldest of Idiots says:
the team wouldn't let me. it would be too silly
Rob says:
hehe, maybe all the teams should have one, that would be good for a laugh
Eldest of Idiots says:
that sounds like a plan.
Rob says:
the game needs some sillyiness to fill in the time between turns
Eldest of Idiots says:
rob, have u ever met B?
Rob says:
i don't think so
Whomp says:
i think we could easily do it with Booti's and Beorn's wackiness
Eldest of Idiots says:
may i invite him?
Whomp says:
sure
Rob says:
sure

http://www.ouverture-facile.com/ has been added to the conversation.

Eldest of Idiots says:
hi b
Eldest of Idiots says:
b good
Whomp says:
he's probably studying polynomials
Eldest of Idiots says:
prolly
Eldest of Idiots says:
or his parents are in the room
Whomp says:
he likes this avatar of mine
Eldest of Idiots says:
old, need to sleep
Whomp says:
night AK
Whomp says:
Beorn will handle it from here
Eldest of Idiots says:
we're doomed
Whomp says:
polynomials and chuck norris...how could we lose with that combo?

Rob says:
sorry guys, somethings come up at work i'm gonna have to leave you, but i talk to you soon about all the deals
Whomp says:
OK see ya Rob
Eldest of Idiots says:
bye

Eldest of Idiots has left the conversation.

Whomp says:
Let's get this done. I think our people would really like to extend our interest in helping each othere
Rob says:
sure thing, we would too. We will keep you updated with any developments

Rob has left the conversation.
 
Very nice chat indeed. Let's get something in writing, like:

Doughnuts will fight on KISS' side if TNT fights on MIA's in a conflict KISS vs MIA. KISS will fight on Doughnuts side if MIA joins TNT in the conflict Nuts vs. TNT.

This is the mil alliance we've been hoping for :band:

EDIT:
I've sent this pm to Robi
Spoiler :
Hi Rob
I just saw your chat with Whomp and AK and thought we might have another go at writing something up. In your earlier response you said that
Also we have not ruled out military cooperation in the future if and when it is needed.
which might be a lil to vague for an agreement;) .
I took your stance in the chat as Nuts will aid KISS in possible conflict with MIA if TNT joins on MIA's side. We could agree on doing the same, i.e. aid you if MIA joins TNT. I also saw some interesting thoughts on research. 2 agri civs vs 2 sci would be fun to watch :D .
Whenever you feel like it, make a draft on possible co-op and we'll be delighted to work something out.

Drum Boy Dagh
K.I.S.S.
 
Seems like diplo dpt. has some work to do anyway :D. This is Nutters respons:
Spoiler :
Re: alliance

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Daghdha,

Sorry it's taken so long, i had promised a draft to be ready a couple of turns ago, but other matters have seemed to come up. It is a draft so none of the proposed conditions should be seen as concrete, all can be negotiated, however i hope this can be a good base to start from, so without further delay here it is

Robi D


Quote:
DRAFT PROPOSAL FOR COOPERATION TREATY
between Doughnutia and KISS

-A Guarantee of peaceful relations between our nations for the duration of this agreement.

-Cooperation in the advancement of technological research. By researching different technologies at the same time we can double the efficiency of our research.

-Technologies will be researched as such to maintain an equality of trade value.

-Technologies that are researched during this period may be exchanged with another nation as long as both parties consent to this. Any technology gained in return would be shared by both parties.

-Trade in luxuries and resources can be negotiated on an individual basis once a trade route is established

-Cooperation in the gathering of intelligence

-Both parties must seek permission to enter the other parties land borders.

-If one party is at war a third nation than the second party is not required to enter the war

-If a second nation enters the war on the side of the opposing nation against a party (thus making it 2 against 1) then the second party must enter the war within a 5 turn period.

-During the period of hostilities both parties would have a Right of Passage through the others territory. There would also be cooperation in military strategy.

-Neither party may enter an agreement with a third party that would adversely effect any of the conditions of this agreement.

-This agreement will be in effect until the end of the Middle Ages. If both parties agree this can be extended further

-If any party wishes to cancel this agreement early, they must give 10 turns notice. Also any current technological research must be completed and traded (even if its after the 10 turn period)

-Any amendments to the treaty must be agreed to by both parties for it to take effect.

--(This is a draft proposal. Both parties have the right to request any additional conditions, removal of conditions or amendment of conditions. Once both parties have agreed to all the condition, a formal agreement will be signed)--

Initial reaction, this looks fair. Let's discuss so we don't get stuck in another one hard to get out of. I bolded the point that I really didn't understand that good, but then again...:crazyeye:
 
One thing I would add immediately is that we will give them all techs to get to parity however they can not trade monarchy to MIA (or 5 turns after they trade it to us. I don't think we care that MIA gets it if we are at war since they can't afford the anarchy). This will help us enormously in any battle against a republic like MIA.
 
Daghdha said:
Spoiler :
Re: alliance

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Daghdha,

Quote:
DRAFT PROPOSAL FOR COOPERATION TREATY
between Doughnutia and KISS

-A Guarantee of peaceful relations between our nations for the duration of this agreement.

-Cooperation in the advancement of technological research. By researching different technologies at the same time we can double the efficiency of our research.

-Technologies will be researched as such to maintain an equality of trade value.

-Technologies that are researched during this period may be exchanged with another nation as long as both parties consent to this. Any technology gained in return would be shared by both parties.

-Trade in luxuries and resources can be negotiated on an individual basis once a trade route is established

-Cooperation in the gathering of intelligence

-Both parties must seek permission to enter the other parties land borders. Sea borders can be entered without permission, however naval units must continue their movement with each turn unless permission is requested and received.

-If one party is at war a third nation than the second party is not required to enter the war

-If a second nation enters the war on the side of the opposing nation against a party (thus making it 2 against 1) then the second party must enter the war within a 5 turn period.

-During the period of hostilities both parties would have a Right of Passage through the others territory. Any movement through each other's territory will be anounced, including force composition, proposed path and ultimate destination. There would also be cooperation in military strategy.

-Neither party may enter an agreement with a third party that would adversely effect any of the conditions of this agreement.

-This agreement will be in effect until the end of the Middle Ages. If both parties agree this can be extended further

-If any party wishes to cancel this agreement early, they must give 10 turns notice. Also any current technological research must be completed and traded (even if its after the 10 turn period)

-Any amendments to the treaty must be agreed to by both parties for it to take effect.

--(This is a draft proposal. Both parties have the right to request any additional conditions, removal of conditions or amendment of conditions. Once both parties have agreed to all the condition, a formal agreement will be signed)--

Spoiler :


I added a couple of ideas. Don't have the time to put in diplomatese, and I will keep reading it to see what burns through my idiodic fog...

PS My suggestions are underlined and in italics.
 
I like Booti's add ons and on 2nd thought I suppose we wouldn't care if MIA gets Monarchy as long as it's not within the next ten turns.
 
-If one party is at war a third nation than the second party is not required to enter the war
I'm still not 100% on this but my interpretation is that no party is forced to join in on an attack. I suppose that is in regard to Nuts anticipating we will hit MIA and they don't want to hop in at the moment.
Otherwise, good points. Let's keep this open for a while so more idiots can have their say. Personally I'm very satisfied with the Nut response. Let's think about how this agreement would affect the situation long term if it becomes a final showdown between us and Nuts.
 
I think your understanding is correct Dag.

Just as our agreeemnt with MIA was dubbed the "Green Alliance," for clarity sake I suggest a similar title for our proposed cooperation with the Nuts.

In reference to the speed of our UUs, I propose referring to KISS and The Donughts as "The Quick." And since Provo is an enduring jerk and MIA has wronged us, I propose we refer to both of them collectively as "The Dead."

If this is acceptable, I would re-write the Nut proposal in question to something like,

"If either member of The Quick Alliance engages in a war of offense agaisnt either or both of The Dead, the second Quick Country is not compelled to attack.

If, however, the Dead combine to fight against either member of The Quick, the second member will come to their aid by declaring war against both of The Dead."

Something like that. Of course, in the formal treaty we would have to define our terms, 'Quick,' and 'Dead' and the like, but if those labels are acceptable, I think that the above would be clear.
 
First the further we get from MW's the better. The MW is likely the least beneficial UU moving forward since it's an expensive upgrade to knights.
Second, they are the furthest from us so they are a difficult foe even if we wanted to fight them. This makes them an easy ally IMO.

We can rewrite the war part. IE If one of the alliance members is in a war it is not required that the other alliance member join in. However, if a 2nd team joins the enemy of an alliance member (2 on 1) then we shall join forces (within 5 turns) together to fight both teams.

I don't know the best way to word it but this is my attempt.
 
Just as our agreeemnt with MIA was dubbed the "Green Alliance," for clarity sake I suggest a similar title for our proposed cooperation with the Nuts.

may I suggest the Simpsons' Protocols?
 
Spoiler :
Draft proposal for The Simpsons Protocols

Within this treaty teams KISS and Doughnuts will be known as The Quick, while teams MIA and TNT will be known as The Dead

-A Guarantee of peaceful relations between The Quick for the duration of this agreement.

-Cooperation in the advancement of technological research. By researching different technologies at the same time we can double the efficiency of our research.

-Technologies will be researched as such to maintain an equality of trade value.

-Technologies that are researched during this period may be exchanged with another nation as long as both parties consent to this. Any technology gained in return would be shared by both parties.

-Trade in luxuries and resources can be negotiated on an individual basis once a trade route is established

-Cooperation in the gathering of intelligence

-The Quick must seek permission to enter eachothers land borders. Sea borders can be entered without permission, however naval units must continue their movement with each turn unless permission is requested and received.

-If one of The Quick is in a war it is not required that the other alliance member join in. However, if a 2nd team joins the enemy of an alliance member (2 on 1) then we shall join forces (within 5 turns) together to fight both teams.

-During the period of hostilities both parties would have a Right of Passage through the others territory. Any movement through each other's territory will be anounced, including force composition, proposed path and ultimate destination. There would also be cooperation in military strategy.

-Neither of The Quick may enter an agreement with any of The Dead that would adversely effect any of the conditions of this agreement.

-This agreement will be in effect until the end of the Middle Ages. If both parties agree this can be extended further

-If any party wishes to cancel this agreement early, they must give 10 turns notice. Also any current technological research must be completed and traded (even if its after the 10 turn period)

-Any amendments to the treaty must be agreed to by both parties for it to take effect.

-If one of The Quick feels wronged by the other in reference to this agreement, and the wrong doing is confirmed by administrators, they are free to declare a one-sided termination of the agreement. This can apply to various parts, or the whole agreement.

--(This is a draft proposal. Both parties have the right to request any additional conditions, removal of conditions or amendment of conditions. Once both parties have agreed to all the condition, a formal agreement will be signed)--

I've added one part, italics, to prevent a situation like the one we've had. Feel free to translate it into proper english :lol: .
 
Maybe the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. of course then we would need to decide who is who. Looks good Dag.

proper english? that would be not me :lol:
 
It's certainly shaping up. Do we need to define "end of the Middle Ages"? Would that be when each of us has actually reached Industrial or while one of us is still researching a last tech? or does that even need to be spelled out?
 
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