Diplo for D'nut

[Whomp]

Jokingly I asked in the Civ4 team discussion thread why TNT doesn't send us letters in the mail. Here's the response...

Well we dont really have anything to talk about with you tbh but if you've got anything to bring up with us our letterboxes are always open.

Meooowww

I'm inclined to say something like...well I suppose we should've rolled out the red carpet for you.


Can I? Can I?

 

[Tubby Rower]

I think that they are coming after us. So what ever you say is fine with me. I just hope that the D'nuts will join us because if they don't I'd say that we have a strong chance of not winning this thing.

 

[Whomp]

Just to keep them in the loop I sent this to Robi D.

That is quite a turn of events for TNT. They must be reeling from the news of a core city (the old capital IIRC) Nice going Rob!

Just so you're aware we are almost ready to send back your proposed alliance. We are looking forward to our new alliance.

The only thing we are hung up on is what is the end of the MA? Since military tradition is so important yet not required to finish the MA should we say the terms are renegotiated or cancelled by certain level of research being finished?

I.E. if MT and Theory of Gravity (or ToG and mag) are the last two techs left then we can either renegotiate or cancel the deal after those two techs are exchanged? What do you think?

Whomp

BTW the sign up for Civ4 MTDG is here. Let's get the Donuts out in force!

Civ 4 MTDG sign up

 

[Whomp]

This is from Robi. BTW I think they may have razed two cities according to Nobody (the NZ guy)

Hi Whomp,

Thanks for the support, we were able to take them by surprise and hence get vital ground on them.

As for the question on the alliance, most of the draft was just off the top of my head from the ideas we had discussed so its by no means perfect. You are correct that military tradition is not required, however when i said to the end of the MA, i had in mind all the tech be finished.

I suppose if there is any techs that both of us feel are not required to be researched they can be excluded, but apart from that the idea was to research all the MA tech first and for the agreement to last that long even if we have completed all the required techs to move to the IA. If you guys feel this is too complicated then we can base the length of the agreement on a turn basis instead.

We too are looking forward to the partnership once we iron out any kinks in the draft proposal.

Robi D

 

[Daghdha]

This could be tricky. Nutters wants to research every branch of the MA tree while we want to beeline to MT. Maybe it's not that good being too specific about who is to be researching what, but I think we may need to draw some guidelines up. How about making clear that we want MT asap and that we want to re-negotiate when all the techs minus the X-ed ones are discovered and shared? We could, based on that, have a continuing discussion on who is to do what.
One way to go would be that we are guaranteed the fastest way to MT by researching it ourselves while Nutters go the Edu path and an optional Chiv for upping those MWs. Q marks are to be decided and PP is included for maptrading.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I think that that is a great idea Dag. I don't see any spoiler info since that screen is also available to them. I would also edit the Science Advisor's comments to something like "Purple and Green is a good combination". Take out the "?" except on Chivalry.

Then I think that we need to send it ASAP. Turn 104 is coming up quick. While it's looking as though we aren't declaring, MIA might have other thoughts.

 

[Daghdha]

OK, so here is a revised version. Beaker cost and nitpicking can be done later . I have attached that and sent it with our revised draft on the Simpsons Protocol:

Spoiler :

Salute!
We have made some adjustments to your draft and attached an image of suggested research.


Draft proposal for The Simpsons Protocols

Within this treaty teams KISS and Doughnuts will be known as The Quick, while teams MIA and TNT will be known as The Dead


Military

-Peaceful relations are guaranteed between The Quick for the duration of this agreement.

-If one of The Quick is in a war it is not required that the other alliance member join in. However, if a 2nd team joins the enemy of an alliance member (2 on 1) then we shall join forces (within 5 turns) together to fight both teams. With "join forces" we mean an in-game declaration of war on the enemies of the alliance

-During the period of hostilities both parties would have a Right of Passage through the others territory. Any movement through each other's territory will be anounced, including force composition, proposed path and ultimate destination. There would also be cooperation in military strategy.

-The Quick must seek permission to enter eachothers land borders. Sea borders can be entered without permission, however naval units must continue their movement with each turn unless permission is requested and received.

-Cooperation in the gathering of intelligence


Technology and Trading

-Cooperation in the advancement of technological research. By researching different technologies at the same time we can double the efficiency of our research.

-Technologies will be researched as such to maintain an equality of trade value.

-Technologies that are researched during this period may be exchanged with another nation as long as both parties consent to this. Any technology gained in return would be shared by both parties.

-Trade in luxuries and resources can be negotiated on an individual basis once a trade route is established

-Neither of The Quick may enter an agreement with any of The Dead that would adversely effect any of the conditions of this agreement.


Termination of the treaty

-Once the technologies outlined in the Nut and Bolt tech tree attached in this mail have been discovered and exchanged, the deal can be renegotiated. That means all techs except the ones crossed over while Chivalry is optional.

-Any amendments to the treaty must be agreed to by both parties for it to take effect.

-If one of The Quick feels wronged by the other in reference to this agreement, and the wrong doing is confirmed by administrators, they are free to declare a one-sided termination of the agreement. This can apply to various parts, or the whole agreement.

 

[Kickbooti]

That look great Dag.

I think in our communication I would make a statement that encourages them to research chivalry.

Something like...

"While Chivalary is technically a 'dead end' tech, it makes good sense for the Donughts to acquire this as soon as possible. We would wouldn't be upeset by our allies ensuring their own security.

This kind of flexibility is essential for strong gameplay."

Let them know that we don't mind some deviation. 'Spirit of the agreement' and all.

 

[Daghdha]

Good point Booty, but too late, hehe. I think us saying Chiv is optional opens up for them to do it without us being grumpy about it.

 

[Whomp]

Nice work Daghie. Did you send this off? I would if not.

 

[Daghdha]

It's sent to Homer

 

[barbu1977]

2 things:

1- If our goal is to get to MT rapidly, I would suggest we do Eng and they do Feud.

2- We should wait as long as possible before geting Feud. Our GS is far better than a MDI. that said, it's probably better for us to do the top part of the Tech tree, and them to do the bottom part.

 

[Daghdha]

2 things:

1- If our goal is to get to MT rapidly, I would suggest we do Eng and they do Feud.

2- We should wait as long as possible before geting Feud. Our GS is far better than a MDI. that said, it's probably better for us to do the top part of the Tech tree, and them to do the bottom part.

I'm sure these are good points. On 1 we can say we've had 2d thoughts and just ask if we can do it the Barbu way. On 2 I would need an explanation why we wouldn't want to ctrl the lower path.
Too bad these comments come after the mail is sent, but I guess that's the way it goes. As Tubby said, we're in something of a hurry to get it together and there has been lots of time for everyone to come up with a plan better than this. I'm a tiny bit disappointed that there have been so little suggestions from our research dpt on this matter, cause I'm in no way the tech wiz in here. Just the Idiot putting something together .

 

[barbu1977]

Well this is linked to the other tread. If we attack now, we are better of with the top side and keeping our GS. If we attack latter, we will be better of with the bottom side and beline MT.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

I haven't read that carefully, but I find it amusing that nuts need a picture of the tech tree to negotiate.

 

[Whomp]

There can be add ons Barbu. Nothing is set in stone.

 

[Tubby Rower]

FWIW, D'nut doesn't have Currency yet. I propose that if they are questioning if they want to join us or not that we offer a good will gift of Currency.

By them getting it for apparently nothing, MIA might assume that they will attack them too. So it could split the MIA forces.

 

[Whomp]

Some good stuff from Rob regarding MIA's undefended cities. Things look good on the partnership front.

Spoiler :

Rob says:
hi whomp
Whomp says:
hi rob. i'm looking at carpet...i mean gold...rubble
Whomp says:
what research should i start?
Rob says:
hehe, well it is a beuatiful sight, i didn't want you guys to not see it
Whomp says:
we finished construction
Whomp says:
feud is cheap
Rob says:
excellent, we got the draft you sent us with the tech tree
Whomp says:
what do you think?
Rob says:
it all looks pretty good
Whomp says:
any issues?
Rob says:
i just posted it last night so theres only been a couple of responses so far but there no major issues with it
Whomp says:
cool
Whomp says:
we can send you techs when you're ready
Rob says:
the only thing thats come up so far is the chiv should be included in the plan, since knights are pretty powerful
Whomp says:
yes that and MT are critical
Rob says:
sure thing, monarchy is only 8 turns away
Whomp says:
ok i can get feud in 9
Rob says:
but like i said thers been no major issues, nor do i expect any, so we should have this agreement up and running pretty soon
Whomp says:
cool
Rob says:
well i think we can shave a few turns off monarchy as we have pop increases and new cities being put down over the next 2 turs
Whomp says:
just in time for us to start on two techs
Whomp says:
you must've crushed TNT's beaker rate
Rob says:
also although i didn't say in the email, we did take a second tnt city that was just in the jungle
Whomp says:

Rob says:
hehe, hope so
Whomp says:
have they busted out MI yet?
Rob says:
no, and we saw very few immos, but lots of pikes
Rob says:
i think they changed their priorites
Whomp says:
they're on their heels
Rob says:
i haven't recieved anything yet so i am wondering if they are more excepting to peace now
Whomp says:
do you know the city east of Carpetbomb?
Rob says:
yes granada something
Whomp says:
yep
Whomp says:
iron
Rob says:
yep we see it, hehe, we have already cut some roads
Rob says:
but i think they still have a connection to it
Whomp says:
probably from the capital
Rob says:
but i'm sure we took out the ivory
Whomp says:
there
Whomp says:
is one next to furbomb but it's not hooked up
Whomp says:
the worker is on the furs
Rob says:
they only have three coastal cities
Rob says:
well two now
Whomp says:

Whomp says:
and furbomb is size 1
Rob says:
i guess only mia can confirm that for sure but i'm pretty confident we cut that connection
Whomp says:
I wonder if they'll make a colony on the furs
Rob says:
yes furbomb is fairly new
Whomp says:
MIA is expanding very rapidly
Rob says:
possibly, since there settlers would be focused on repairing the damage we did
Rob says:
yes, they made quite a move.
Rob says:
do you have any boats?
Whomp says:
chamnix is a very good player
Whomp says:
no galleys
Rob says:
he is, he has done a good job with them
Whomp says:
i was just going to move my curragh through their lands but things seem a little tense...i don't want to raise their temperature too much
Rob says:
well in the spirit of cooperation i will tell you this
Rob says:
we had a currargh pass through recently and their coastal cities near us are very very light on defence, most had none
Whomp says:
they are bringing hops to their jungle cities
Rob says:
6 to 8 gallics in a surprise raid could do a lot of damage
Whomp says:
we are moving down the coast too
Whomp says:
i'm not sure I want to meet MI so we'll see how things develop
Rob says:
if you went the long way passed us, they would not see you coming
Rob says:
well they haven't connected any iron so far
Rob says:
unless they did this turn
Whomp says:
tell you in a sec
Rob says:
and im sure you can take care of the MI's, it no different to our MW's taking on the immos
Whomp says:
skirmish
Rob says:
just use the MP advantage to your benifit
Whomp says:
i love speed!
Whomp says:
i think they hooked it up because it doesn't show on my side of the diplo screen
Whomp says:
thing is their cities are small
Rob says:
we frustrated TNT so much they started building horses to try to match us
Rob says:
hmm, must have been this turn because is wasn't previously
Whomp says:
when i pull up the diplo screen everyone has iron hooked or else it would show on my side.
Rob says:
true but if you can do what we did it will set them back quite a bit
Whomp says:
tnt is missing 4 luxs that we have
Rob says:
and i would be willing to bet Athens and Heron wouldn't be defended too heavily either
Rob says:
hehe, poor TNT hehe
Whomp says:
i see you need dyes and spices so let me know when you get the harbor in
Rob says:
we have 2 luxs atm and are heading off to hook up a 3rd
Rob says:
sure thing, we should have silks in the not to distant future if all goes to plan
Whomp says:
well i'll finish this and send it to you in 15-20. will you be around?
Rob says:
yes i will, but i wont have the time to play it until late tonight or sat morning
Whomp says:
ok well i'll put you in the background for a few minutes
Rob says:
but thanks, it will help me do some forward palnning
Rob says:
no probs

 

[Crakie]

This confirms my conjecture that MIA would be stacking up military in their lux cities, posted elsewhere. If possible at all, we should make good use of our GS and raze a couple of cities.

 

[Tubby Rower]

If they are for having a cooperative effort against MIA & TNT then I propose that we gift them Currency and Construction so that they can start building markets and be ready to start Mono or Feud once they finish Monarchy.