lurker's comment: No more KISSING in Action, I see... 
Diplo for MIA
- Thread starter Tubby Rower
- Start date
Kickbooti
Ecclesia Militans
Rik Meleet said:lurker's comment: No more KISSING in Action, I see...
Oh, we're still kissing I think. It just may be that we have to ask them to change the location. Maybe Igor has a recomendation as to what they can kiss...
I am speaking with Fe right now but here's his proposal.
Dear KISS idiots
We are eager to continue our specialrelationship ... following a chat with Dags where we discussed current and future options I have penned this draft list for you to analyse and feedback on
1. Concrete the Republic Deal
>
Republic - 28* ... 28x30 x 1/7 = 720 (KISS)
Literature - 10* ... 10x30 x 1/7 = 257 (MIA)
Map Making - 12 ... 12x30 x 1/7 = 309 (MIA)
Mathematics - 8 ... 8x30 x 3/7 = 137 (MIA, TNT, Nut)
>Outcome = 720 - 703 = 17
2. Horseback Riding Options
>
Horseback Riding - 5 ... 5x30 x 2/7 = 107 (MIA, Nut)
Option A ... for the screenies of the Nut and TNT capitals
Option B ... for 1 worker
Option C ... save for later trade
3. Late Fee
>
We would like you to consider setting a maximum time limit on trade deals and then adding a late fee of 1gp per every turn after the stated completion time. This will ensure delivery of tech when stated, Forces Majeure, Acts of Meleetand other things outré and not directly in your control would be a legitimate excuse to not exercise this clause if late in delivery.
4. Future Research
>
KISS supply Construction and MIA deliver Currency
We claim the knowledge of trading with tokens as it fits our trait
Construction - 20 ... 20x30 x 1/7 = 514 (KISS)
Currency - 16 ... 16x30 x 1/7 = 411 (MIA)
>Outcome = 514 - 411 = 103
We will await your thoughts and then our scribes will prepare a document.
Good fortune to you
Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister
Foreign Staff ... Kentharu and Classical_Hero are also at your service.
It seems MIA feels we shortchanged them by running min on republic. I guess we can counter by showing when it would've made a difference running min vs. max. I suppose on the one hand we could've run a little earlier but we need to gather when we gave them all the techs. I know it was CoL and philo but does anyone remember what else?
They would like pics or a worker according to their email.
They would like pics or a worker according to their email.
Spoiler :
.... back 
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Given their calcuations, I would say Construction = HBR & Currency
We come out 4G ahead whereas they come out 107G ahead with a straight consuctin for curency deal.
Plus I thought we couldn't sell those pictures?
We come out 4G ahead whereas they come out 107G ahead with a straight consuctin for curency deal.
Plus I thought we couldn't sell those pictures?
Daghdha
Absent Minded
Trust is good, control is betterKickbooti said:
. I think gmh is correct on MIA having 2:d thought about "helping" us. Obvioulsy we have drifted apart since the beginning of our partnership and MIA is looking for a backdoor out. Now they want our protection without giving too much in exchange. The understanding that they would give us their techs on completion seems all gone. A firm but "friendly" sorting out is in place.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
No deal on Constr (us) for Currency (them). We can get that from D'nut or TNT. I think that after the Republic deal we should start building libs and start drifting away from MIA.
I realize that we have invested a lot in this relationship, but they are starting to think that they can take advantage of our relationship. I'm with Crakie... they get a free tech @ the beginning of the MA and we should include those in negotiations.
I realize that we have invested a lot in this relationship, but they are starting to think that they can take advantage of our relationship. I'm with Crakie... they get a free tech @ the beginning of the MA and we should include those in negotiations.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
In our gmail inbox
Dear KISS idiots
I'd like to add yet more issues to take you away from the toils of Empire micro management
<Darkness and Silence>
Cue Spot Light on Presenter ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... Go
Laaaadies and Gentlemeeeeen !!!
Teeeeeam MIA ... Preeeesntzzzz !!!
Cue Fanfare ... 3 ... 2 ...
Behind the Fanfare Curtain
"Anyway Hans I tell her that what I have is very big, the biggest in the village"
"What did she say to that?"
"Jakob, she did not believe me. So I had to her show my..."
"Damn it all ... Quick !!! ... We must NOW loudly Blow !!!"
TOOO - TA - TOOOO - TA - TOOOOOO
"Ha Jakob, almost missed the cue ..."
"Shhhhhh !!!"
The Deeeeal of the Centurrrrrrrrry !!!!
Cue Background Muzak ... 3 ... 2 ...
<Tubular Bells (The Exorcist) Sound Track>
The Background ...
Through the sheer brilliance and deviousness of MIA's Department of Barter and Trade, we have managed to procure for the Green Alliance ...
ALL of the technology required for us the complete the Ancient Age !!!
Dramatic Pause ending on 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... Go
This through the exchange of minimal technology to the competing Battle Islander factions.
OK ... Here is how it works ...
Cue Smart Money ... ending in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... Go
Part 1. KISS presents MIA the knowledge of Republic
KISS give Republic in return for MIA supplying Literature, Map Making and Mathematics.
>Trade Value Tally ...
MIA goods = 10(300) + 12(360) + 8(240) = 30(900)
KISS goods = 28(840)
Part 2. The Green Cabal livessss onnnn ... in Secret
MIA will send the Horseback Riding and then later Polytheism in an intermittent random pattern so as not to spread fuel to an already paranoid environment abroad.
>Trade Value Tally ...
MIA goods = 30(900) + 5(150) + 12(360) = 47(1410)
KISS goods = 28(840)
>The Cost ...
Nuts get Literature = 10(300)
Part 3. and then MIA present the Fiiiiinal Countdownnnnn
And then the coupe de gras ... when KISS supplies Construction, MIA will return with the knowledge of Currency.
>Trade Value Tally ...
MIA goods = 47(1410) + 16(480) = 63(1890)
KISS goods = 28(840) + 20(600) = 48(1440)
>The Cost ...
TNT get Writing, Mysticism and Horseback Riding
= 8(240) + 4(120) + 5(150) = 17(510)
How would you like to join hands with us and hand in hand, together drive the Green Alliance into the next Age together ...
Cue Big Men in Funny Little Cars
"Brrrrrmmm Brummmm"
"Peddle Faster"
"Brrrrrrmmmmm"
Loooong Live theeeee Alliance ... Greeeen Forrrreverrrr !!!!
We will await your thoughts and then our scribes will prepare a document.
We remind you that this is TOP SECRET !!!!
Good fortune to you
Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister
Foreign Staff ... Kentharu and Classical_Hero are also at your service.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
I'm not following this rigamaroll.....
Why does TNT & D'nut figure into this? Who sells the techs to "Battle Island"?
Can anyone decipher this?
EDIT :: after reading this thing thrice, I think that MIA plans to monopolize the trades overseas. Also we have to wait on the techs they are/have currently researching(ed). I think that the deal should read that they give us the techs as they research them and we will hand over techs as they come into our possession. I think that they are trying to play all three teams...... I'm starting to dislike MIA more and more. Their tech costs that THEY calculated does not mean that they will be researching all of those techs... 5 to 1 money says that they have deals pending with Battle Royale over there to get techs out of them instead of researching them themselves. That's fine with me but I don't like them taking credit for researching techs that they never intend on reseraching.
Can we back out of the Republic deal? Let's keep it to ourselves and take the best deal out there (all AA techs).
EDIT2: Don't forget about their free tech that we will be helping them get after they get into the Middle Ages. I doubt that they will share that. And make us pay FULL cost for it.![[pissed]](/images/smilies/pissed.gif "Pissed [pissed]")
Why does TNT & D'nut figure into this? Who sells the techs to "Battle Island"?
Can anyone decipher this?
EDIT :: after reading this thing thrice, I think that MIA plans to monopolize the trades overseas. Also we have to wait on the techs they are/have currently researching(ed). I think that the deal should read that they give us the techs as they research them and we will hand over techs as they come into our possession. I think that they are trying to play all three teams...... I'm starting to dislike MIA more and more. Their tech costs that THEY calculated does not mean that they will be researching all of those techs... 5 to 1 money says that they have deals pending with Battle Royale over there to get techs out of them instead of researching them themselves. That's fine with me but I don't like them taking credit for researching techs that they never intend on reseraching.
Can we back out of the Republic deal? Let's keep it to ourselves and take the best deal out there (all AA techs).
EDIT2: Don't forget about their free tech that we will be helping them get after they get into the Middle Ages. I doubt that they will share that. And make us pay FULL cost for it.
OK here's what I've located.
We gave writing, philo, CoL and assume republic to MIA. Tech cost?
We've received masonry and should get maths, map making and lit. Tech cost?
Am I missing anything?
From my perspective they should give us all techs they've traded for since we specifically said we would not trade republic, hence our hands are tied. They were the only ones capable of trading. Remember we suggested Donut research through to currency while MIA was researching a different path. This did not happen since we agreed that republic was too valuable in trade. This completely tied our hands and I applaud them for their trading but we couldn't.
If we give them anything it's for the ~5 or so turns of min research that could've been max research on republic. I estimate this to be worth ~90g. If we give them embassy pictures or worker we are square.
If they think we should be aggressive on the tech trading that's fine. We will structure a deal for republic (donut) and writing (TNT) if we have to....this is in neither of our best interests.
We gave writing, philo, CoL and assume republic to MIA. Tech cost?
We've received masonry and should get maths, map making and lit. Tech cost?
Am I missing anything?
From my perspective they should give us all techs they've traded for since we specifically said we would not trade republic, hence our hands are tied. They were the only ones capable of trading. Remember we suggested Donut research through to currency while MIA was researching a different path. This did not happen since we agreed that republic was too valuable in trade. This completely tied our hands and I applaud them for their trading but we couldn't.
If we give them anything it's for the ~5 or so turns of min research that could've been max research on republic. I estimate this to be worth ~90g. If we give them embassy pictures or worker we are square.
If they think we should be aggressive on the tech trading that's fine. We will structure a deal for republic (donut) and writing (TNT) if we have to....this is in neither of our best interests.
Crakie
Soupnazi
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2004
- Messages
- 527
Republic - we are starting to find out - is a nasty tech to have, in a way. You want noone to have it, yet it extremely valuable. As it is, I would rather give republic to the other continent, they are at war and no threat at the moment. Which techs would that get us?
Daghdha
Absent Minded
We still have a few turns left before we have to decide which way to go. I'd like us to really think this over. Fe is trying to make a good deal for MIA, but that's no surprise, that's his job. If MIA is negotiating with other continent, that's no surprise either, so are we. I still think the initial idea of rowing this boat together into MA and leaving TNT/Nuts in the dust is the best one. We should not let go of that so easily because we have the others by the throat. What we have to do is revise MIA's offer to better suit our needs and whishes. Throw all our arguments on the table and come up with a counter offer. I don't have the words or wits to do it but would like someone to give it a shot.
I've requested a proposal from Donut for what they would offer in the future for republic. (obviously everything we won't get from MIA)
This does two things...
1. It makes them aware we are putting it out to bid so when MIA trades in their techs for it there will be no surprise.
2. It's a negotiating chip with MIA to say we got it and are working deals like they did if we don't get all the techs they have. Like Crakie says we don't want anyone to have it but if MIA doesn't trade us what they've got we have no other choice but to trade it around so we can advance along the tree.
Another thought, crazy as it may seem, is to grind tech to a halt after republic. Our GS are a mighty speciman in the AA. Not so much in the MA.
Let MIA research the tree themselves, rather than helping them get their free tech, while we expand and militarize. After republic the only unresearched techs include poly, currency and construction.
This does two things...
1. It makes them aware we are putting it out to bid so when MIA trades in their techs for it there will be no surprise.
2. It's a negotiating chip with MIA to say we got it and are working deals like they did if we don't get all the techs they have. Like Crakie says we don't want anyone to have it but if MIA doesn't trade us what they've got we have no other choice but to trade it around so we can advance along the tree.
Another thought, crazy as it may seem, is to grind tech to a halt after republic. Our GS are a mighty speciman in the AA. Not so much in the MA.
Let MIA research the tree themselves, rather than helping them get their free tech, while we expand and militarize. After republic the only unresearched techs include poly, currency and construction.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
I like the idea of keeping Republic to ourselves. With Republic and all of the techs known by 2 or 3 teams then the relative tech cost for those techs will be cheaper than when MIA researched them. They can't keep a war going just for WW and if they attack us then we'll have war HAPPINESS!!! Let's trade with the nuts and TNT to get the most for what we do have over them then we can research all of the others by ourselves. Maybe getting Constr and currency from the nuts for Republic.
In this scenario we need to get MAth from TNT for writing asap.
In this scenario we need to get MAth from TNT for writing asap.
Nikodemus
Demigod
My humble little opinion seems to be agreeing with Daghie here. We should make sure TNT and Dnuts are in the dust before turning on MIA. But this is clearly very tricky business and by far my least favourite part of the game (deciding who to attack) even when playing the predictable AI, let alone smart humans. 
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
If you can come onto MSN, get online now... This needs to be talked over...
That tells me that we should get all of their techs once we get Republic....If that doesn't happen, I'm going to lead the charge to not have MIA as friends any longer.... not enemies, just not friends
agreement #2 with MIA said:
That tells me that we should get all of their techs once we get Republic....If that doesn't happen, I'm going to lead the charge to not have MIA as friends any longer.... not enemies, just not friends
Daghdha
Absent Minded
Good, then let's tell 'em that + the other things we feel uncomfortable with (like including techs on their side that they will trade for and not research themselves). Whomp is right on asking Nuts for an offer...TNT could get one too actually (not that they have much to offer).Tubby said:
The agreement does not say they will send their discoveries on completion so I guess we cannot complain about that.
I think it's imperative to hold hands with MIA at least until we're strong armed compared to them. ATM we're a paper tiger with a high score, but those numbers will be weak compared to a sudden dogpile. If MIA get screwed on rep and therefore initiate some evil overseas diplo, I can see them convincing Nuts/TNT that now is the time to hit the runaway civ which would leave 3 left with about the same chanses.
Again, this doesn't mean we should accept whatever MIA suggests.
I looked for Fe last night to no avail. It's very simple either we're at tech parity or we are forced to sell republic. Something neither team wants. This is not about beaker for beaker. If they paid gold (I think ~14g) for maths then fine we will share the cost of that purchase.
I think we've already agreed to give our embassy pics for the slow burn on republic. Is that agreeable?
I'd prefer to have a war with MIA after the roads from each end are hooked up to the luxs. Ours and theirs. Speed is our advantage. Roads and galleys are a must.
I think we've already agreed to give our embassy pics for the slow burn on republic. Is that agreeable?
I'd prefer to have a war with MIA after the roads from each end are hooked up to the luxs. Ours and theirs. Speed is our advantage. Roads and galleys are a must.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
I'm fine with the screenies but I think that they should get them when we get our techs.... if it's after we get Republic then fine. The longer they delay then the less meaningful they will be ( but don't tell them that)
