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Diplomacy by numbers - spreadsheet

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Bibor, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. wobuffet

    wobuffet Barbarian

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    I thought this and so played with Random Personalities on at first, but it turns out (i.e., someone posted on this forum that) it makes the game significantly easier, since the #s are tweaked to take advantage of each Civ's unique abilities/units/buildings/start biases.
     
  2. Gewar

    Gewar Chieftain

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    I have rewritted Korean XML:


    Victory Competitiveness - 6
    Wonder Copetitiveness - 6
    Minor Civ Competitiveness - 4
    Boldness - 4
    Diplo Balance - 6
    Warmonger Hate - 4

    Denounce Willingness - 4
    DoF Willingness - 7
    Loyalty - 7
    Neediness - 6
    Forgiveness - 7
    Chattiness - 4
    Meanness - 4

    Major Civ Approach
    War - 4
    Hostile - 3
    Deceptive - 4
    Guarded - 5
    Affraid - 7
    Friendly - 6
    Neutral - 6

    Minor Civ Approach
    Ignore - 6
    Friendly - 6
    Protective - 4
    Conquest - 3

    Flavors
    Ofense - 4
    Deffense - 7
    City Deffense - 6
    Military Training - 4
    Recon - 3
    Ranged - 7
    Mobile - 5
    Naval - 7
    Naval Recon - 4
    Naval Growth - 5
    Naval Tile Improvement - 5
    Air - 5
    Expansion - 5
    Growth - 6
    Tile Improvement - 5
    Infrastructure - 5
    Production - 5
    Gold - 5
    Science - 8
    Culture - 5
    Happieness - 5
    Great People - 8
    Wonder - 6
    Religion - 5
    Diplomacy - 4
    Spaceship - 8
    Water Cennetion - 5
    Nuke - 6


    And characteristics:
    Sejong is paceful, friendly and loyal leader with rabbit heart - he avoids war as hard as he can.
    He will more likely ally or ignor CS than counqer it, but he won't protect it.
    His army will be deffensive and ranged and he will keep his fleet to defence too. He doesn't care about recon.
    He will focus on his science and specialists aiming for spaceship victory. The rest of his economy is pretty ballanced.


    And about boldness and diplo balance - I think the first is about coveting your land and second is likehood to consider things like "you backstabbed your friend" or "your friends found the reason to betreay you"
     
  3. Optional

    Optional Deity

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    Thanks, Gewar!

    I have read a different explanation from someone for what 'boldness' could be; a more bold civ could be less constrained by having a relatively weak army strength when deciding to go to war, in other words, be more likely to still attack you, even when having a weaker army. This could explain a phrase like 'I know the odds are not with me, but I see no other way...'

    That's just a theory also, though.
     
  4. Ludikraut

    Ludikraut Chieftain

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    Yeah, Ghandi finished the Manhattan Project in 1655 in my last game (Immortal, huge map), WTF!!

    OP: Great info. Thank you for posting.

    l8r)
     
  5. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    What's the reason Firaxis decided to do away with the diplo modifiers? I know this was a matter of much discussion both before and at the point of release. But, I'm still a little confused on the matter.

    I've played several games of ciV now, and I can't seem to get a handle on diplomacy. I realize that most of the serious players have looked into the XML and did some code diving to see how the diplo works. Why is this better than having it presented to us graphically in-game? I see very little difference with the exception of having to code dive.

    Does anyone know of any mods that graphically or textually represent (in game) the variables that go into diplomacy? I'm tired of agreeing to DoWs with my Friends only to have them suddenly denounce and become Guarded or worse.

    You can make any arguments you want... diplomacy in Civ4 was so much more fun. I find it nearly impossible to form long standing blocks of friends in ciV.
     
  6. Gewar

    Gewar Chieftain

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    I've made some leaders characteristics. I was planning to make all of them, but there are so much better things to do that I suspended this project (maybe some positive feedback will make me continue :p):
    1. Alexander (aggressive, expansive):
    Diplomacy:
    Alex is very competitive – he hates you if you are winning, he wants your land and wonders and he will probably be hostile, DoW you or denounce you. He will not be afraid of you and won't forget to tell you how much he hates you.
    On the other side, he doesn't care if you are warmongering, backstabbing or buying CS.
    Alex hates if you are attacking CS.
    Economy:
    Alex will expand. He doesn't care about gold, but he very likely will go for diplomatic victory. With his UA and culture focus, it possible. But Alexander could go for any type of victory.
    Army:
    Alexander will build lot of offensive and mobile units. He will ignore ranged and air. He also likes nukes.

    2. Askia (aggressive, rich, wonder-hunter):
    Diplomacy:
    Askia is aggressive, bold and brave. When you are building lots of wonders, you will be his target. But other than that, he has balanced personality.
    He likes to annex CS rather than ally them.
    Economy:
    Askia loves gold. He is not building wonders – he is taking them.
    He will probably aim for domination or space victory.
    Army:
    Askia do not neglect any type of unit, but he prefers offensive and mobile ones.


    3. Augustus (deceptive, CS-ally, expansive, organized, training):
    Diplomacy:
    Augustus is deceptive one – he will not like you for winning, backstabbing or buying CS, but he could pretend he doesn't care. If you will make DoF with him, he will exploit it by asking you for favors.
    But when he decide to show his true face, he won't have a problem to denounce you and be mean.
    Augustus likes to ally CS, but other options are validate too.
    Economy:
    He likes big empire with roads and tile improvements. He cares about happiness and military training. The rest of his economy is balanced and he doesn't ignore any field of it.
    Augustus likes space victory.
    Army:
    He uses every type of unit, but he likes it well trained.

    4. Bismark (deceptive, industrial, scientific, training):
    Diplomacy:
    With DoF he will ask you for gifts.
    Without DoF is hard to tell if he likes you or just pretend. And if so, he will denounce or attack you suddenly or he just don't trust you.
    And he will be your enemy, if you are winning, buying CS or backstabbing.
    Bismark likes to attack CS, but don't like if someone else does.
    Economy:
    Bismark likes big, industrial and advanced empire with well trained army. He will probably aim for science victory.
    Army:
    Bismark prefers mobile army, good recon and nukes. Altho he doesn't use many ships.

    5. Catherine (deceptive, friendly, expansive, scientific, ground):
    Diplomacy:
    Catherine is almost always friendly to you, but sometimes she is only pretending. She will not covet your lands, but if you have to many wonders and CS allies, you will make her angry (even when she doesn't admit it).
    CS should not exist at all!
    Economy:
    Russia has a lot of small, unhappy cities deep in land. All this for science and space race victory.
    Army:
    Catherine likes nukes. And she is not using neither navy nor planes.

    6. Darius (friendly, loyal, non-forgiving, golden cities, defensive):
    Diplomacy:
    Darius is friendly and one. He will get mad only when you start winning. He will not covet your land and won't be hostile. But he hardly forgive anything. He has balanced reactions to everything else, including CS.
    Economy:
    Persia is rich, happy and well improved land. Darius likes space victory.
    Army:
    Darius prefers defensive units over offensive.

    7. Elizabeth (not trusting, hostile, maritime):
    Diplomacy:
    Elizabeth do not like nor trust anyone – she would be jealous about buying CS, she doesn't like backstabbers nor warmongers and she will protect CS. As an ally, she will be needy.
    Economy:
    English economy is based on water tiles. They would have many fishing boats, harbors and lighthouses. Elizabeth likes her gold.
    Army:
    Elizabeth loves her ships and bows. She will explore seas as soon as possible. She will not recruit many horsemen and offensive units.
     
  7. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

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    I like the write ups, thanks! Hope you decide to do all of the civs.
     
  8. zan_laurin

    zan_laurin Chieftain

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  9. learner gamer

    learner gamer King

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    Out of curio, was there ever any progress on ascertaining the meaning of loyalty? Bibor describes it in the first post as being the chance of an AI backstabbing you - which would mean that a higher number suggests the AI is less loyal. By contrast, jdog5000 suggests the opposite in post 53. Can someone therefore please confirm whether a higher loyalty rating implies greater (i) loyalty or (ii) disloyalty from the AI? :thanx:
     
  10. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Deity GOTM Staff

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    great chart. just now looking at it and its helping me gauge how to handle certain civs.

    one thing about graphics though. the bolded vertical lines separating the categories would really help if they were bold all the way down. trying to line up the number with the column is tough for a guy with poor eyes like myself.

    but thanks for the chart regardless. its a big help to me.
     
  11. black213

    black213 Emperor

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    You could make a conclusion that the higher loyalty, the less likely to backstab, since the peaceful leaders have high loyalty.
     
  12. Brickbuster27

    Brickbuster27 Chieftain

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    Nukes for India might be a preventative measure, not an offensive one. India sees French invasion, and then Napoleon finds that radiation is almost as bad as a Russian winter
     
  13. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Likelihood to make demands?
     
  14. l4d2bob

    l4d2bob Chieftain

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  15. Cedbird

    Cedbird Warlord

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    Ha Ha I was in a war with him that he started . EVERY city i took of his he blew me a way devastating my army and costing me the game . I was just about to attack another civ who was close to winning but I used so many resources to beat him I could not . I am just getting back to my civ playing but it taught me a lesson . Make sure you build nukes yourself and build your fighter and anti-air team or you will be mince meat to the Ai unlike Civ 4 I can only remember being nuked once in my many plays I think .
     
  16. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Emperor

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    @Bibor:

    Great work! Now thaqt the patch is applied I'm going to try piping the xml docs in the Leaders folder into an Excel spreadsheet. Just for fun.
     
  17. CharlieM

    CharlieM Creative, Spiritual

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    Would LOVE to see an update of this information, including the new GAK leaders.

    :)
     
  18. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Yes, it's coming up today. No worries . We had a long 4-day weekend in Croatia.
     
  19. X-Worf

    X-Worf Chieftain

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  20. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Emperor

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