Diplomatic Relations

Admiral Kutzov said:
fe = iron
au = gold
whats the 3333?
Admiral that's what I was thinking at first. Straight chemistry 101, but he signed his name
Feaurius III
I think he was just messing around with the first four letters and the number 3 since he is the third.
 
Whomp said:
It is illegal to have out of game contact.

So is this like an unwritten spirit of the game in PBEMs? I can't find it written anywhere in the rules. They just talk about trading contact information and maps and out of game espionage.
 
My suggestions to Ken about how to deal with D'nuts and capture a sling. Also to finalize our deal with them. The emperor discount is 20% and whether we will agree to share contacts.
Spoiler :


Kentharu says:
right, we got business now (team pressure!!)
Whomp says:
moved my king around
Whomp says:
ok
Kentharu says:
about this doughnut MIA KISS relationship
Kentharu says:
have you guys talked to them yeT?
Whomp says:
nope
Kentharu says:
right
Whomp says:
but you have
Kentharu says:
do you think that they would go for it?
Kentharu says:
yup
Whomp says:
depends on what they get out of it I'd think
Whomp says:
something equal to writing value
Whomp says:
but it seems a waste for us to research writing if the 3 of us can work on getting republic together
Whomp says:
at least for MIA and KISS it is
Kentharu says:
but they won't get much out of it really
Kentharu says:
yea
Kentharu says:
lol just for us
Whomp says:
I figure they can't get a bunch of techs and we all get philo...sling and it's a win win
Kentharu says:
ok
Whomp says:
does that make sense?
Whomp says:
Then the only one left in the dark is TNT
Kentharu says:
and what about the proposal FE sent? he thinks that we should agree to that first atleast
Kentharu says:
lol poor TNT
Whomp says:
But if we meet TNT we would not divulge what the rest of us are doing
Kentharu says:
agreed
Whomp says:
TNT has not necessarily endeared themselves to Dnut or some people on your team.
Kentharu says:
endeared?
Whomp says:
to bring themselves closer through postitive posts...specifically Provolution
Kentharu says:
oh
Whomp says:
have you read any of his comments in the general threads?
Whomp says:
kind of a tattle tale
Kentharu says:
well no lol, i dont go there much
Kentharu says:
never really
Whomp says:
I've seen Fe light him up a bit as well as Classical and ybbor
Kentharu says:
I want to know exactly what this means for KISS and MIA relationship in your words

Kentharu says:
oh ya, provo doesn't get along well with anyone
Whomp says:
It could spell bad things for them methinks
Whomp says:
someone on TNT should tell him to shut his mouth
Kentharu says:
but he is the most experienced on their team i think
Whomp says:
so what
Kentharu says:
well with the most posts
Whomp says:
they should tell him to shhh...they are not making friends by letting him talk
Kentharu says:
most new guys kinda get afraid of people with over 1,000 posts
Kentharu says:
i know i do
Kentharu says:
not much anymore but before i did
Whomp says:
ah just play some SG's and you'll talk a lot
Kentharu says:
lol true i guess
Whomp says:
bear with me one sec...I'm trying to find the save I just played
Kentharu says:
k
Whomp says:
ok got it in.
Kentharu says:
right back to the matter at hand?
Whomp says:
so back to discussions
Kentharu says:
cause FE is getting a little hyper about it lol can't disappoint
Whomp says:
I think we agree with everything and as well new contacts. The main clarification was the emperor discount
Whomp says:
20% between us but full price for everyone else
Kentharu says:
ok
Whomp says:
We were bummed that we didn't get wheel for pottery
Whomp says:
I think if there's a way to negotiate our way into a philo sling with Dnut that would be ideal
Whomp says:
have they told what they are researching?
Kentharu says:
well from what i understand the doughnuts are interested in writing swap
Whomp says:
when I say we I mean MIA and KISS
Whomp says:
what do they want?
Kentharu says:
not for anything
Whomp says:
why?
Kentharu says:
dunno, i think they just selfish lol
Kentharu says:
but if we both try and get it
Whomp says:
oh ok so they won't trade for it
Kentharu says:
i see how this can work
Kentharu says:
is this a "gang up on tnt?"
Whomp says:
not even for IW, WC and CB?
Kentharu says:
question from the entire team
Whomp says:
you have it they need it
Kentharu says:
yup
Whomp says:
My 02 on this
Whomp says:
If you ask them if they're interested in slinging and getting all the techs needed to get out of the AA would that make them happy?
Kentharu says:
it probably would lol
Whomp says:
before TNT...which they may not know is their neighbor....do you know if they know TNT?
Kentharu says:
but that would cost more for us
Whomp says:
how so?
Kentharu says:
well if we get a whole bunch of techs and then ask them to trade the sling tech then in the end it woudl cost us more
Kentharu says:
collectively
Whomp says:
look at it this way
Kentharu says:
we only know they met us
Whomp says:
if you get writing and they get IW and WC...maybe even CB... then one of us can start research on CoL and they can get philo
Kentharu says:
they might have, might be keeping it a secret from us to
Whomp says:
they also don't know whether anyone else has writing so...for all they know we do
Whomp says:
so by telling them the first to philo wins so they go philo, you go CoL and we finish HBR for their UU...how does that sound?
Whomp says:
they don't know whether we started on writing so if they haven't started on philo they (in their minds) may be screwed
Kentharu says:
lol i see
Kentharu says:
a bit of trickery
Whomp says:
see they don't know us and what we've researched.
Kentharu says:
nope
Whomp says:
well if they don't want to tell you anything then why tell them you know us?
Whomp says:
that way they don't know whether we (or TNT for that matter) made a beeline for philo.
Whomp says:
maybe they know with TNT but they don't with us.
Kentharu says:
if they haven't talked to you then they don't know
Whomp says:
correct so maybe you lob it out to them that what happens if they miss philo simply because they didn't ask for help getting to republic
Whomp says:
The way I see it they should want someone to help them get out of a despot asap.
Whomp says:
why not get a bunch of techs with us helping them.
Whomp says:
MIA and KISS
Whomp says:
are you following me on this?
Kentharu says:
reading every word
Whomp says:
BTW I'm not trying to be tricky with them but if they're not going to be more forthright then why should MIA play all their cards...
Kentharu says:
how true
Kentharu says:
is that why you haven't talked to them yet
Kentharu says:
lol cause its smart
Whomp says:
no their boat hasn't hit our shores yet.
Kentharu says:
but first we want you guys to sign our deal
Whomp says:
No issues with that.
Kentharu says:
so the deal is cool?
Whomp says:
Let me get the stamp out. It was our deal and the only thing I think needed clarification was the emperor discount. We are agreeable to keeping each other up to date on new contacts and what's been discussed. You have been forthright with us. That was big for us.

Kentharu says:
we thought it was right
Whomp says:
one sec...gotta grab the dog real quick
Kentharu says:
lol k
Whomp says:
puppy doens't like it when the older dog as her chew stick...lol
Kentharu says:
its a puppy?
Whomp says:
two
Whomp says:
one's a puppy though.
Whomp says:
lots of attention
Kentharu says:
lol
Whomp says:
so here's what I'll do. Because all that really changed was the emp. discount and you guys adding the new contacts. I will post it now so we get something done asap. Do you want before your play?
Kentharu says:
preferably
Kentharu says:
but take your time
Kentharu says:
no rush
Whomp says:
ok. What I think you guys may want to do then is explain to Dnut the fastest way to republic is where they get help.
Whomp says:
or they potentially miss the sling all together and then it has to be researched....bad

Whomp says:
or they potentially miss the sling all together and then it has to be researched....bad
Kentharu says:
ineed
Kentharu says:
putting the deal up right now
Kentharu says:
the 3 way deal
Whomp says:
I would suggest to dnut the risk of not asking for help to get out a despot. Everyone wants out of a despot
Whomp says:
and fast
Kentharu says:
understood
Whomp says:
ok I will make the adjustments and forward
Kentharu says:
is it ok if i copy and paste this convo
Kentharu says:
for my team?
Whomp says:
absolutely
Whomp says:
I will do the same
Whomp says:
hopefully both sides will have more to contribute
entharu says:
hopefully
Whomp says:
I think the point is clear. If dnuts want two partners they got it...but they need to open up first
Kentharu says:
and fe has concerns about spirit of the game issues
Kentharu says:
i mean should we just knock TNT out of this because of provo
Kentharu says:
and them not being in contact with us
Whomp says:
I don't know..not really....but he has definitely made enemies everywhere
Kentharu says:
very true
Whomp says:
his team could tell him to keep his mouth shut....i got scolded and deservedly so
Kentharu says:
he might just be the dictator of TNT lol
Whomp says:
well then the dictator may get all that he can handle lol
Kentharu says:
lol
Whomp says:
ok lets post to our team and have this ready hopefully tomorrow sometime
Kentharu says:
right
Kentharu says:
well im going to have to leave
Kentharu says:
my dad
Kentharu says:
he is getting on my case
Whomp says:
ok see ya
Kentharu says:
i will talk out the details with you for the 3 way deal later yes?
Whomp says:
you got it
Kentharu says:
cool
 
Whomp - that was an excellent conversation with Ken. My only hope with that the kid can negotiate with Donuts. I have my doubts. He seems clueless.
 
The only thing I don't like about this agreement is #5. I would like to make it more generic since MIA and KISS can not beat D'nut to a sling. Maybe something like "the quickest way to republic with or without D'nut. I don't like researching writing if we don't have to or being locked into an agreement where they can make deals while we do hard research.
Spoiler :
The Seven Tiers to Friendship

1. MIA gives wheel upon completion and KISS gives pottery now.
Voided
2. MIA and KISS land units stay outside of each other's actual
borders, during the peace.
3. MIA and KISS sea units don't stay on the same tile in each
other's territory for 2 consecutive turns, during the peace.
4. MIA and KISS will offer each other "Most Favoured Nation
status". Most Favoured Nation simply means that we will offer what we
learn at the monopoly beaker cost less the Emperor trade rate discount of 20%
if, and only if, MIA will reciprocate. Other nations will pay monopoly
beaker cost. No shared research, no sweet heart deals, just cold
number crunching.
4a. Deals with other nations which go beyond monopoly beaker cost
for trade, must be agreed to by the other party ... ... MIA feel
that this addition will make it possible for both teams to further
benefit from our respective negotiation and bartering skills.
5. KISS will get Writing while MIA gets Masonry and Mysticism. As
soon as KISS gets Writing, the team with the best research capability
starts on Code of Laws, while the other team starts on Philosophy.
Code of Laws will be discovered first and given to the other party
before Philosophy is discovered, so that Republic comes as a free
tech.
6. Techs are shared between both teams when Writing and Republic
are discovered. We believe this balances out under "Most Favoured
Nation" status.
7. MIA and KISS are at peace. Since both of us can't really know
what new developments will be in the future, our peace deal is
basically unlimited, and can only be terminated at least ten turns
beforehand. This shall not be done, before at least 10 turns have
passed after the discovery of republic.
The Eighth Step to Trust
8. On first contact with an unknown team, either KISS or MIA will
share, automatically when their game save is sent, this fact with
their continental neighbour in written form.
 
Yeah, we should get Writing from D'nuts. But the diplomacy is very compicated now when we don't have contact with them. For everything we want to discuss with them we need MIA. We must contact them ASAP.

Contact with TNT would be a valuable asset too, even if they don't have any good techs to trade. If nothing else, we'd be equal with MIA.
 
Whomp says:
have you read any of his comments in the general threads?
Whomp says:
kind of a tattle tale
Kentharu says:
well no lol, i dont go there much
Kentharu says:
never really
An ambassaduer that doesn't read the morning paper? How odd :confused: . I'm already looking fwd to the after-game chat. Is the above really true or do they try to appear clueless.
 
They probably figured they should treat us like the name of our capitol described us. They figured we were "simple", so they sent their biggest dolt.
 
Here's AK's conversation that I was able to copy.

I don't think MIA should tell d'nuts that they know us yet. D'nuts don't have any military techs and they don't know whether they can be beat everyone to a republic sling (which they probably could).

My thinking is MIA should let them know they can help them get it and on top of it d'nuts gets a few military techs (more importantly their UU techs).

There are two conversations going. AK and Fe in italics then AK and me on IM.
Spoiler :
fe3333au [9:21 AM]: MIA POV -
Skippyshutt [9:21 AM]: POV?
fe3333au [9:21 AM]: 1. You will meet D-Nuts soon ... inevitable ...
fe3333au [9:21 AM]: point of View
Skippyshutt [9:21 AM]: aah
fe3333au [9:22 AM]: 2. therefore since meeting will happen we would like to create good will with D-Nuts
fe3333au [9:22 AM]: and tell them that we have met you
fe3333au [9:22 AM]: But just becuse

adimiral kutzov says:
they want our bods. lol. have we told em about dyes?
Whomp says:
no
Whomp says:
The advantage to MIA is why would they know us if they didn't have pottery?
adimiral kutzov says:
wheres bede when we need him?
Whomp says:
So again to guarantee a republic slingshot dnuts needs MIA's help. So they are willing to help...dnuts gets some techs like WC, IW, wheel and hbr...which they need to for their UU as well as sling....win, win, win
Whomp says:
make sense?
Whomp says:
otherwise they can wait on their UU.....maybe miss a republic sling...though chances are they woul likely get philo on their own but not a republic sling.
adimiral kutzov says:
i just gave away the store
Whomp says:
what?
adimiral kutzov says:
calm down, i aint that dumb
Skippyshutt [9:32 AM]: werner, we have this old grumpy fart that u need to speak with. you're challenging my cut and paste skills now. when's a good time for a formal chat. i've been into the vodka tonight and need to stop. our young idiots are honorable. need to hook u up with bede.
fe3333au [9:32 AM]: can be AIM?
Skippyshutt [9:34 AM]: don't know i'll check, just told my team that I gave away the house.
Whomp says:
hehe
Whomp says:
bede has IM for sure but not 100% on AIM
adimiral kutzov says:
don't know i'll check, just told my team that I gave away the store. give me a time when bede can speak with u (based on these IM's u'll bond). sending this to my team now.
Whomp says:
AK does he understand why it's so important for dnut to get help?
adimiral kutzov says:
not sure, that's why im deferring to bede hope you're copying for posterity
adimiral kutzov says:
Fe3333au [9:40 AM]I have dialup and cannot DL the MSM programme ... so if he or another could AIM ... then It would help me ... sorry ... but I'm a bit technologically challenged
Skippyshutt [9:40 AM]: me too, i'm trying to get set up on DSL bede is currently AWOL. but we need to set a time when he can be there. he speaks with the authority of a REALLY OLD GUY. lol

Whomp says:
the dnuts don't have wc, iw, or cb
Whomp says:
and mia is researching wheel now and they don't have that
 
I think the deal is done if someone will stamp it and cross out #5.
Whomp said:
Werner,
What's up? Bede signed up for AIM last night and I may try and DL it as well.

On the agreeement, I think if we just delete #5 that should be sufficient since #4 covers it.

On the Donut thing, Bede agrees with you and thinks you should tell them you know us. Maybe they'll realize they can't get any 2 fer 1 deals out there and would consider trading writing. I still think they need help like you said on military techs since TNT is on their continent. My intel says Provolution is all about war so I'd think Donut needs to be careful and pick up some of their UU and other military techs.

What do you think?
Whomp said:
fe3333au said:
Regarding agreement ... 3 options -

1. We redo the agreement graphic and send to you
2. You cover the section 5 wording with a black box or cross out and still sign and send
3. You sign and send as is ... and I delete the section then send you the completed document
I will have someone cross out #5 and forward it on to MIA.
fe3333au said:
Regarding TNT ... I am uneasy about discussing a team none of us have yet to meet in-game ... I wonder if it goes against the spirit of the game rules ... therefore I have forwarded this to the admins so they can clarify ... they must be sick of me by now :rolleyes: ... it seems a pity that any relationship with them is already tainted :sad:
I don't see anything wrong with understanding a person's playstyle in advance. Anyone can read about the various players throughout this site. At the same time, I am not saying everyone should gang up on TNT. They may prove to be a valuable partner. That remains to be seen.
fe3333au said:
I have instructed our diplomat to mention that we know KISS, but not go into details regarding our relationship ...
Your diplomat should say to donuts "we'll tell you who we know if you tell us who you know". That's a fair exchange.
 
I'm beginning to think we need some bridge players here rather than poker players. Bridge players communicate their strengths in open auction, while poker players do thier best to hide their weakness.

So who has the longest and strongest suits in the game? And what are they good for?

Here is my assessment based on the opening round of bidding, and I think we know who's holding the the dummy hand.

d'nuts made the stongest opening gambit with a burn to writing. We just don't know if that has made them vulnerable to a Persian onslaught.

MIA fiddled around, didn't explore, and now owns what are pretty insignificant techs when you consider the opponents. They didn't set themselves up for rapid expansion, and didn't set themselves up to take advantage of their position on the map and their commercial and scientific traits. Iron Working and Warrior Code pale into insignificance when you consider the hoplite as an AA and early MA defender. And you don't have to attack the enemy if you can outgrow and outresearch them.

I don't know anything about TNT right now, but if the Chief Druids and Entrail Gazers are correct, they could be on the warpath. If so it is going to cost them in the long run so long as their local opponent can put up a good fight.

So what we need to do is continue as we have been, but we also need to get d'nuts into the boat with us. And get them what they need to make a stand against the Persians if that is in fact what is going on.
 
Not so much watchout for TNT because even if they own their continent at the end of the AA they will be gassed if d'nits puts up any kind of a fight. And the sooner they are equipped to do that the better.

However, the verdict is still out and delcarer has not laid the dummy down yet. What's going on across the sea?
 
the latest missive. I'll let tubs and whomp talk on what it all means
Spoiler :
re suited to bridge players who engage in open bidding rather than poker players who disguise their strengths. It is in this spirit that our shaman share
fe3333au: But they must have renamed the other city then
KC Venters: barbs could explain that stat but not loss of land area
fe3333au: I see your point
fe3333au: Oh and thanks for opening ... I prefer this also
KC Venters: I have to leave in 5 minutes so...
KC Venters: do you think donut may be more willing to talk about military techs if they've been attacked?
fe3333au: So let us assume that
fe3333au: I was just typing this same thought
fe3333au: They if in a very bad position may just out of vengence want to unload all assetts to us
KC Venters: Do you think that the art of putting the alphabet together onto tablets could be gained?
fe3333au: stringing words and concepts onto a hard medium ? ... hmmm ...yes indeed
fe3333au: also fighting enhancment skills
KC Venters: Is this something that can be organized from the MIA end, and shared with the northern green ones (ie KISS)?
fe3333au: to trade to them
Skippyshutt: what do your young people make of this
KC Venters: we agree that the nutters need to put up a fight
fe3333au: Oh of course ... we are Favoured Nations after all ... and I would say that this is how good friends act
fe3333au: Our yound ... and old ... in fact I'm sure all who speak wand listen when we meet would be most favourable to this
fe3333au: *young
Skippyshutt: ?
fe3333au: 8and
fe3333au: YES we would ;)
Skippyshutt: aah
Skippyshutt: forgive me, as chief idiot of naval operations, I do not offen partake of the diplomacy thingy
fe3333au: So I will instruct the D-Nut ambassador to begin urgent talks
Skippyshutt: yes
KC Venters: He should know to press the fact that we know a city has been lost
fe3333au: YES
fe3333au: definitely
fe3333au: I would think that they should be less arogant this time
KC Venters: indeed
fe3333au: very condescending they were at our last sit down talks
Skippyshutt: old wise peiple hope so
KC Venters: Whompus MAximus III is downloading AIM as we speak to keep dialoge going
KC Venters: Is there anything else that we can aid you with tonight?
fe3333au: I am sure that you will soon meet ... It is frustrating but we cannot workout how to give you contact
KC Venters: in due time, in due time
Skippyshutt: can we add bawhomp@yahoo to this conversation?
fe3333au: Not that I can think of ... I await the parchments so we can lock it away in a safe place ... I thank you all for being open ... a sign of great future deeds together
fe3333au: Sure anyone I like meeting new people
KC Venters: Contact us if the nutters need proof of such knowledge
KC Venters: of the lost city
fe3333au: I have about 15 minutes left before i must take to the soothing waters of the bath house
KC Venters: aaah the bath house.... co-ed?
fe3333au: I will but I think we are good ... land area on F-11 ...
fe3333au: I have attendents who are pleasing to the eye
KC Venters: I must go but will leave the chat open for recording purposes only
fe3333au: all a legit government expense of course
KC Venters: good night all
fe3333au: Thankyou and well met
Kentharu1: good night
fe3333au: cheers
Skippyshutt: good night all. more idiots will be back next time
 
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