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Discussion: Civilizations and Leaders

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fictionalization IV' started by cfkane, Jun 15, 2009.

  1. cfkane

    cfkane Chieftain

    Joined:
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    In Fictionalization IV, all civilizations have one or more leaders, one unique building, and three unique units.

    1. The Unique Unit from the regular game
    2. The Legendary Unit (LU). This is a special unit which represents a prominent archetype from its civilization's culture. Like missionaries or executives, there is a limit on how many you can build.
    3. The Superhero. This is a powerful, expensive late game unit, which, unlike other Hero units, a civilization can only build once, and is unique to that civilization.

    Currently, the Superheroes have yet to be implemented into the beta.

    The current civilizations in the mod are as follows:

    Spoiler :

    AMERICA
    Leaders: Jed Bartlet, Jack Ryan, Nehemiah Scudder
    LU: Gunslinger*
    Superhero: Superman*

    ARABIA
    Leaders: Haroun Al-Raschid, Vathek
    LU: Carpet Rider*
    Superhero: Jabbar*

    ATLANTIS
    Leaders: Atlas, Arthur Curry
    UU: Polyreme
    UB: Orichalcum Treasury
    LU: Mersoldier*
    Superhero: Namor*

    AZTEC
    Leaders: Huitzilopochtli
    LU: Ahuizotl*
    Superhero: Quetzalcoatl*

    CELTIA
    Leaders: Macbeth, Lear
    LU: Fianna*
    Superhero: X-O Manowar*

    CHINA
    Leaders: Huangdi, Wu Qinghua
    LU: Loong Dragon*
    Superhero: Li Xiaolong*

    EGYPT
    Leaders: Ozymandias, Ra
    LU: Anubite*
    Superhero: Teth Adam*

    ENGLAND
    Leaders: Arthur, Gloriana, Big Brother
    LU: Knight of the Round Table*
    Superhero: Marvelman*

    FREEDO-MORONIKA
    Leaders: Rufus T. Firefly, Moe Hailstone, Victor von Doom
    UU: Marxist
    UB: Opera House
    LU: Doombot*
    Superhero: Doomsman II*

    FRANCE
    Leaders: Prince Charming, Louis XVI
    LU: Conquérant des Nuages*
    Superhero: ?

    GERMANY
    Leaders: Froschkonig, Adenoid Hynkel
    LU: ?
    Superhero: Heinrich I

    GREECE
    Leaders: Agamemnon, Oedipus
    LU: Centaur*
    Superhero: Wonder Woman*

    HYBOREA
    Leaders: Conan
    UU: Cimmerian Warrior
    UB: Mitraic Temple
    LU: Black Guard
    Superhero: ?

    INCA
    Leaders: Manco Capac
    LU: ?
    Superhero: Ajak*

    INDIA
    Leaders: Raghava Rama, Khan Noonien Singh
    LU: Pandava*
    Superhero: Shaktiman*

    JAPAN
    Leaders: Yamato Takeru
    LU: Gundam*
    Superhero: Goku*

    MALI
    Leaders: Chibinda Ilunga, Shango
    LU: Loa*
    Superhero: Tarzan*

    NATIVE AMERICA
    Leaders: Hiawatha
    LU: Thunderbird*
    Superhero: Apache Chief*

    PERSIA
    Leaders: Xerxes, Sheherezade, Ayatollah Daraei
    LU: Simurgh*
    Superhero: ?

    ROME
    Leaders: Romulus and Remus, Lucius Tiberius
    LU: Gladiator*
    Superhero: Ultima*

    RUSSIA
    Leaders: Ivan the Terrible, Fearless Leader
    LU: SMERSH Agent*
    Superhero: Omega Red*

    SHAMBHALA
    Leaders: Suchandra
    UU: Dob Dob
    UB: Gompa
    LU: Bodhisatva*
    Superhero: ?

    SPAIN
    Leaders: El Cid
    LU: Campeador*
    Superhero:

    SUMERIA
    Leaders: Gilgamesh
    LU: Harimtu*
    Superhero: Gozer*

    TRANSYLVANIA
    Leaders: Dracula
    UU: Nosferatu
    UB: Sanctuary
    LU: ?
    Superhero: The Master*

    UTOPIA
    Leaders: Utopos
    UU: Politis
    UB: Garden
    LU: Syphograntus*
    Superhero: The Samaritan*

    VIKINGS
    Leaders: Beowulf
    LU: Valkyrie*
    Superhero: Thor*

    ZULU
    Leaders: Jaffe Joffer, T'Challa
    LU: Impundulu*
    Superhero: Storm*


    * not yet implemented
     
  2. Yared

    Yared That Guy

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    Persia = aladin
     
  3. Dibukk

    Dibukk Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Austria (we don't have kangaroos!)
    Well at first I have to say: Congratulations! I think this mod really deserves a subforum! :goodjob:

    :woohoo:

    Alright, back to topic.

    I had a look at your list and I've got some ideas to fill some of the gaps:

    Legendary Units:
    Spoiler :

    Germany - the Drachenflieger from "The War in the Air", something from Germanic mythology like Dwarves or Dragonslayers or the Übermensch
    Note: Drachenflieger is already a plural so please don't call it Drachenfliegers :sad:

    Incas - possibly one of these: Apu (a lower mountain god), Malliki (the Andean form of mummies) or Supay (a race of Incan demons)

    Transylvania - oh, there are many possibilities: Homunculi, Werewolves, Giant Bats, Zombies and so on



    Superheroes:

    Spoiler :

    Arabia - I guesse Ra's al Ghul would be far better known thn Jabbar
    Celts - Obelix
    France - Exodus (orignally he was called Bennet du Paris)
    Germany - I don't know Heinrich I. and I can't find anything about him on Wikipedia so I suggest Red Skull
    Hyborea - Red Sonja
    Persia - The Prince of Persia or if you want a name call him Dastan
    Shambhala - Raudra Chakrin (well, he's not a real superhero but he is prophesied to appear in the year 2424 and defeat all rulers of the world in order to establish a world-wide Golden Age)
     
  4. cfkane

    cfkane Chieftain

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    Well, for superheroes I'm mainly looking for powerful beings that can go toe-to-toe with one another. Ra's Al Ghul and Red Skull aren't necessarily powerful fighters, especially when put in the same lineup as Goku and Superman.

    Jabbar is a superhero from a recent comic series called The 99, where a group of young men and women are granted powers based on the Islamic concept of the 99 names of God.

    Heinrich is the magically imbued Saxon prince summoned by Nazi occultists at the end of Return to Castle Wolfenstein.
     
  5. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator

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    Heinrich...not very satisfied with him...why do you not take Siegfried as the german hero?

    Hero for france: Not very creative, but why not Joan D'arc?

    For the units: FfH2 has centaurs and a carpet flyer, iirc ;).


    :lol: Gozer.
     
  6. cfkane

    cfkane Chieftain

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    I can't use Siegfried or Joan because these have to be powerful-demigod characters that can go toe-to-toe with Superman.

    I originally wanted to put Superman in the game, but then I realized that giving him to only one civ could make said civ overpowered. So, the superhero national unit was planned as a balance between different players.

    So for any character to be nominated for Superhero status, they have to be modern and powerful; comic book characters prefered, who can match the idea of a superhero on some level, be it physical power or national pride.
     
  7. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator

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    Ah, okay.
    That'll be a problem for some civs, i think.


    For egypt, i hope you've seen the anubis warrior in the database :).
     
  8. cfkane

    cfkane Chieftain

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    Well, it may be difficult, but not necessarily impossible. I'll just have to dig deeper.
     
  9. johnny139

    johnny139 Chieftain

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    I think you may want a different Superhero for Greece. Wonder Woman has closer ties with the Amazons than Greece proper, and since Alliance with Themyscira is already included, well, it's an odd bit of overlap.

    May I suggest someone like Ares, instead?
     
  10. cfkane

    cfkane Chieftain

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    Hm, you're right. It is a bit of a strained relationship. Though I don't know about using Ares, since he's been more of a villain. Yet, I'm already set on using Black Adam - a supervillain - for Egypt. So it might not be a problem. I'll give it some thought nonetheless.

    On the subject of superheroes, I'm considering X-O Manowar for the Celts. Utopia's hero would have to be an independent agent who's not really tied to any nationality, so right now I'm toying with the idea of Kurt Busiek's Samaritan.
     
  11. Dibukk

    Dibukk Chieftain

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    Shame on me that I havn't suggested this earlier: Kratos from God of War as the superhero for Greece
    It is disputable whether he is a hero or not, but he sure is an extremly powerful warrior who even killed Ares and became the new God of War.

    Regarding the Celts, I still suggest Obelix, but Manowar sounds good, too
     
  12. Pakhawaj

    Pakhawaj Chieftain

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    You should include Count Duckula as a Transylvanian leader.
    For a "Superhero" of Celtia, you could pick Gog & Magog, I imagine the model wouldn't be hard to create (though I don't know much about this sort of thing!) or if you want to be more interesting choose Asterix and Obelix :)
     
  13. Methyl Orange

    Methyl Orange Chieftain

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    I think Portugal could be added having Lusus as a leader.
     
  14. Dibukk

    Dibukk Chieftain

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    As I stated in the pedia thread, I'm going to add the Shadowrun franchise to the modern/future era of the mod. This gives us some very intresting options for new, modern leaders for several civilizations:

    Arabia: Mullah Sayid Jazrir, self-proclaimed phropet and leaser of the Alliance for Allah, an islamistic army that invaded Europe during the time of the Great Jihad

    Aztecs: Francisco Pavón, last president of Mexico and founder and first president of Aztlan, an Aztec-themed superstate ruled by the megacorporation Aztechnology controlling Middle America

    Native America: Daniel Howling Coyote, Ondian shaman who used the return of magic to led a sucessfull rebellion of the surpressed native tribes known as the Great Ghost Dance, leading to the creation of the NAN (= Native American Nations)
     
  15. Dumanios

    Dumanios MLG

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    I like this idea.

    Although it has been a while since I played Freedom Force,but you could have El Diablo of Freedom Force as a Hero for Spain.Unless he is Mexican,then I've got nothing.For the Russians you could use Nuclear Winter and for the Germans you could use Blitzkrieg from Freedom Force vs. the 3rd Reich.

    You could keep Ragnar Lodbrok since there is no proof he existed.
     
  16. cfkane

    cfkane Chieftain

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    One thing that's made me hesitant to add more leaders is that we're quickly running out of possible trait combinations for the leaders.

    So I've been thinking about adding a new trait, "Heroic" that grants bonuses to hero units and such. I haven't coded it yet, but I'm keeping it in the back of my mind.

    Also, I've been thinking about a new leader for the Vikings: Sneedronningen, The Snow Queen from the Hans Christian Anderson tale of the same name. I mainly want to include her because I think it would be fun to make a LH out of her.
     
  17. Dibukk

    Dibukk Chieftain

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    I never played Freedom Force but on the homepage El Diablo is described as a Latino. Thus it is quite unlikely that he is from Spain. And I think the German and Russian superheroes are finem no need to replace them.

    I'd like to finish the superheroes so I revive up some old ideas and throw in some new ones:
    France: Obelix (although he might fit better to the Celts) or Le Nyctalope
    Greece: Kratos might fit better than Wonder Woman (an amazon isn't necessarily Greek)
    Hyborea: Red Sonja or the less important but more powerful Kulan Gath
    Persia: Prince of Persia


    Great ideas, both the Snow Queen and the Heroic trait!

    If my math is correct there are 66 possible trait combinations with the Heroic trait included. There are currently 50 leaders (already counting the Snow Queen) so there is still enough room left. But if you are worried about traits, how about including Tsentom1's leader traits? With them the number of combinations would be nearly 200 so we don't have to worry any more.
    IMO what really is important is that the leaders correspond to different aspects or ages of a civilization (e.g. Hunagdi corresponds with ancient China while Wu Qinghua corresponds with the PRC)
    It wouldn't make much sense to add both Agamemnon and Priam as Greek leaders because both of them correspond with the Trojan War. On the other side, there is still room for plenty of good leaders. For instance, both Vathek and Al-Rashid are leaders of early Arabia, but I miss somebody representing modern Arabia like Bab el Ehr or Sayid Jazrir.
     
  18. Dumanios

    Dumanios MLG

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    Like I said,it was a while since I had played..
     
  19. Moogi

    Moogi Chieftain

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    I had a great idea for a German LU: Helsingard Robots from the comic book series Atomic Robo. For those of you who haven't read the comic (a situation that must be remedied as quickly as possible), I put more information in the 'Units' thread.
     
  20. Dibukk

    Dibukk Chieftain

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    I've never been realy satisfied with El Cid as a "fictional" leader for Spain, but recently I stumbled over this guy, who might fit better: Fierabas.
    And how about Vega from Street Fighter as the Spanish superhero?

    So, what do you think?
     

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