Discussion Thread related to Multipolarity IOT

[Mosher]

I think this whole affair is lame. Perhaps it really is time to merge IOT with NES.

I haven't read the MP3 stuff, but the deciding factor in who has a legit nation or not should be the GM. If he has trouble enforcing his will then he should solicit the help of the mods. It is that simple. It is the GM's game to run however he/she wants it run. The rest of the bickering is petty and immature.

Sone and I did nothing except embargo those two nations; then Bird made a fuss out of it and locked the thread.

 

[Sonereal]

That is the point Bsmith. A moderator shouldn't be able to come into a thread and demand a player change diplomatic actions. If is for the GM to enforce. If the GM had told me to lift the embargo, it would've been done. He didn't, so Bird, disagreeing with my actions, decided to hold the game hostage until I play ball.

 

[BSmith1068]

Give me examples other than not being able to blacklist players that don't explicitly break the games stated rules.

 

[Patchy]

I would like to point out that your reason for embargoing them was rather poor. Who are you to decide whether or not a nation is good enough for the game?

 

[Mosher]

Give me examples other than not being able to blacklist players that don't explicitly break the games stated rules.

Multipolarity III.

 

[NinjaCow64]

Give me examples other than not being able to blacklist players that don't explicitly break the games stated rules.

There are no examples. Even the one Son will most likely give you blantanly breaks the rules:

-Multipolarity is a franchise based on soft power, and it is not uncommon for there to be tensions! However, be courteous to other players. Disputes should remain in character and never be personal.

 

[Sonereal]

Multipolarity III.

MP3 was shut down because I would not lift the embargo.

It isn't personal. You're just so sensitive that you get upset when people point out, game after game, that your nations are just spam. So, I've decided that instead of doing what I did in MPR and MP2 and forming myself up diplomatically against nations I consider stupid, I would just embargo, cut off diplomacy, and be done with it.

Of course, doing that leads to a thread being locked.

 

[Lighthearter]

I would like to point out that your reason for embargoing them was rather poor. Who are you to decide whether or not a nation is good enough for the game?

Who are you to dictate what his foreign policy has to be and why he can do it? A player plays to control a nation. You don't GET a say in his foreign policy. It just has to make sense to him and be allowed by the GM.

-L

 

[BSmith1068]

Sone and I did nothing except embargo those two nations; then Bird made a fuss out of it and locked the thread.

Had the game even started yet? Shouldn't embargoing (and other diplo) wait until at least game start? Given the recent tension in MP2 with PF I can see how it could be construed that you were singling him out for non game reasons. Again I haven't read the MP3 thread so I could be missing some context.

 

[Patchy]

Who are you to dictate what his foreign policy has to be and why he can do it? A player plays to control a nation. You don't GET a say in his foreign policy. It just has to make sense to him and be allowed by the GM.

-L

I get a say in it when I see it as bullying. And that's what they were doing, bullying NC and PF because of the casual way they decided to make their nation.

 

[Lighthearter]

You don't get to shut down the whole game for it. If he wants to, sure, but settle an in-game action INSIDE THE GAME. Don't take it and turn it meta.

-L

 

[Sonereal]

Had the game even started yet? Shouldn't embargoing (and other diplo) wait until at least game start? Given the recent tension in MP2 with PF I can see how it could be construed that you were singling him out for non game reasons. Again I haven't read the MP3 thread so I could be missing some context.

It happened before game because diplomacy always happens before the game starts. Every game that has a sign-up happen has diplomacy happening within an hour or two. Would an embargo two minutes after game start be DIFFERENT from an embargo before the game? Again, we were diplomatic about it. We weren't going around telling people to declare embargoes or anything. We had our opinion; TF said our thought process was logical, and so the embargoes happened.

 

[Mosher]

I get a say in it when I see it as bullying. And that's what they were doing, bullying NC and PF because of the casual way they decided to make their nation.

They are free to play their nations; they can just forget about economic or political relations.

Had the game even started yet? Shouldn't embargoing (and other diplo) wait until at least game start? Given the recent tension in MP2 with PF I can see how it could be construed that you were singling him out for non game reasons. Again I haven't read the MP3 thread so I could be missing some context.

I may have been at war with PF in MP2, but I have no grudge against him and never had, and I cannot recall making any inflammatory remarks in the MP2 thread or the IOT chat. And, no - there is no reason for diplomacy to wait till game start. What is the difference between embargoing now and embargoing in a few days?

 

[Patriotic_Fool]

Going back to the Roots of IOTs and Forum Games

Okay. What is the point of these forums. Read it. "Civilization Fanatics' Forums > OTHER GAMES > All Other Games > Imperium OffTopicum".

What is a game?

Spoiler :

A form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

I prefer to think of a game as something that people play for fun, but competition definitely is a factor.

Fun.

Why aren't we having fun? I believe the single biggest reason why IOTs have degenerated and the players are becoming upset is this:

Players cannot separate their OCC, real-life feelings from their In-Game characters and nations.

Here are some experiences I have had with "metagaming" (playing the game in OCC, rather than IC).

1) MP2 - I invaded Partitionania and I received a large backlash. 8 players, none of them allied to Partitionania, declared war on me. They did not do the same during previous wars, only to me.

2) MP2 - Thorvald himself levied 3 waves of embargoes against my nation. No other nations were embargoed by the sub-GM during the course of the game. He also organized a poll to get me kicked out of MP2.

3) MP2 - Both sonereal's corporation and mosher's country sent vast sums of money to aid Partitionania. Sonereal, being a corporation, sent out 250 income (half of its assets, quite a large sum) to a nation with only a single province. No corporation in-character would waste so much money like that. Mosher sent all his country's income to Partitionania. Again, not a logical in-character move.

4) IOT: X - Jamescaesar organized an alliance to take me down before turn 0. He gained 4 or 5 members of the alliance, and I changed countries to hopefully combat it. (he was dedicated to taking down Russia, with statements such as 'enjoy dying in X'.)

5) IOT: X - I change my nation from Russia to Germany, and I have a territory dispute with France (ailedhoo). I offer a compromise, but he refuses, and the 5 man alliance kicks into gear.

6) IOT: X - thread spammed with threats of me (PF, not Hitler) being a 'bully', 'jerk', and 'ruining the game'. All over a 5 sized territory dispute. He accuses me of being a warmonger and subsequently there are pages of threats and back and forth comments. Mod has to step in.

7) MP2 - My joking statements, "I'm going to nuke Partitionania" in a web-chat are used multiple times against me. Said chat is cropped to remove my "i'm kidding" statements after the "nuking" part, and are treated as real.

8) MP3 - My nation is blockaded for being "stupid".

I'll add more to the list as they come. Point is, IOT'ers need to realize the following:

Every single game is different. Players, while not always, may have different playing styles. They are not Stalin or Hitler in real life, they are just another human player. In the end, the game is made to be fun. If you think someone else is ruining your fun, either step up and beat them, or leave. Complaining to the mods, GM, going on strike, or making OCC insults will not do anything but further degrade the community.

 

[NinjaCow64]

[BGoing back to the Roots of IOTs and Forum Games][/B]

Okay. What is the point of these forums. Read it. "Civilization Fanatics' Forums > OTHER GAMES > All Other Games > Imperium OffTopicum".

What is a game?

Spoiler :

A form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

I prefer to think of a game as something that people play for fun, but competition definitely is a factor.

Fun.

Why aren't we having fun? I believe the single biggest reason why IOTs have degenerated and the players are becoming upset is this:

Players cannot separate their OCC, real-life feelings from their In-Game characters and nations.

Here are some experiences I have had with "metagaming" (playing the game in OCC, rather than IC).

1) MP2 - I invaded Partitionania and I received a large backlash. 8 players, none of them allied to Partitionania, declared war on me. They did not do the same during previous wars, only to me.

2) MP2 - Thorvald himself levied 3 waves of embargoes against my nation. No other nations were embargoed by the sub-GM during the course of the game. He also organized a poll to get me kicked out of MP2.

3) MP2 - Both sonereal's corporation and mosher's country sent vast sums of money to aid Partitionania. Sonereal, being a corporation, sent out 250 income (half of its assets, quite a large sum) to a nation with only a single province. No corporation in-character would waste so much money like that. Mosher sent all his country's income to Partitionania. Again, not a logical in-character move.

4) IOT: X - Jamescaesar organized an alliance to take me down before turn 0. He gained 4 or 5 members of the alliance, and I changed countries to hopefully combat it. (he was dedicated to taking down Russia, with statements such as 'enjoy dying in X'.)

5) IOT: X - I change my nation from Russia to Germany, and I have a territory dispute with France (ailedhoo). I offer a compromise, but he refuses, and the 5 man alliance kicks into gear.

6) IOT: X - thread spammed with threats of me (PF, not Hitler) being a 'bully', 'jerk', and 'ruining the game'. All over a 5 sized territory dispute. He accuses me of being a warmonger and subsequently there are pages of threats and back and forth comments. Mod has to step in.

7) MP2 - My joking statements, "I'm going to nuke Partitionania" in a web-chat are used multiple times against me. Said chat is cropped to remove my "i'm kidding" statements after the "nuking" part, and are treated as real.

8) MP3 - My nation is blockaded for being "stupid".

I'll add more to the list as they come. Point is, IOT'ers need to realize the following:

Every single game is different. Players, while not always, may have different playing styles. They are not Stalin or Hitler in real life, they are just another human player. In the end, the game is made to be fun. If you think someone else is ruining your fun, either step up and beat them, or leave. Complaining to the mods, GM, going on strike, or making OCC insults will not do anything but further degrade the community.

 

[Osmowstroyer]

I don't accept the the intervention of the Moderators Imperii.

 

[Patchy]

They are free to play their nations; they can just forget about economic or political relations.

Oh great, now we are moving on to cliques!

 

[GenMarshall]

I was anticipating the next installment of MP. Unfortunately, with the actions of a select few, have dampened the mood of the game itself. Traditionally, diplomacy tends to happen once the game starts. However, this isn't the case with some individuals tossing out embargo on the basis of the content of a player's nation. Eventually calling the attention of a moderator.

While I am outside the loop on this whole fiasco. Calls of a General Strike/Revolution against the moderators is ridiculous at best. Perhaps treading the line of a PDMA. I'm on the mindset of never messing with the guy who has the ability to toss out infractions and ban you.

I'm rather disappointed, as I was looking forward to this game, that during the sign up phase has devolved into a case of "I don't like how you made your nation so IMA GONNA EMBARGA YA!!" and other childish antics to the levels I haven't seen since during the spat I saw years ago with one poster in DYOS where the thread itself was derailed in a rant against one particular poster. Eventually culminating down to the closure of the thread itself.

I find it rather amazing that I, myself, still have any sort of interest in any IOT game. Despite the infighting that goes on.

 

[Patriotic_Fool]

Who are you to dictate what his foreign policy has to be and why he can do it? A player plays to control a nation. You don't GET a say in his foreign policy. It just has to make sense to him and be allowed by the GM.

-L

The problem here is that the game has not even started. Turn one, if you want to embargo me, go ahead. Albeit, I want a better reason other than "your nation is stupid." At the time of the embargo, my economic policy/government wasn't even set up. He couldn't say, "They are 2/10, 3/10, I hate them".

That is the signup thread. You simply can't embargo or declare war in a signup thread. Come on.

That's just meta.

 

[Sonereal]

Again, what is the difference between embargoing two minutes BEFORE a game starts and two minutes AFTER the game starts?

@CivG

I have a solution to that. It is called "the embargo" not "lock down the thread until a player plays ball".