DiverseCiv - Civ3 refined

1.I think the Galleas comes to early, it was a medieval ship not anciant. I suggest that it becomes available with Engenering(sp?). There has been made some pretty good War Galleys you could use instead.

2.I think you should move Horse Archers to the ancient age. Make a new tech called Stirrups, require Horseback Riding and maybe some other tech. The HA should then be assigned to Stirrups. It should not be required for era advancement, but it should cost very much to discover either.

3. I still think you should have more resources, my suggestions would be: Bananas/Fruit/Tropical Fruit, Pearls, Corn/Maize, Silver and Rice. You should´nt add them all, just two or three.

4. I think rubber should have +1 production. I never understod why it did´nt.

5. oh and the Stau of Liberty could be a wonder too.

thats all for now:)

[ptw]
 
Originally posted by Yoda Power
1.I think the Galleas comes to early, it was a medieval ship not anciant. I suggest that it becomes available with Engenering(sp?). There has been made some pretty good War Galleys you could use instead.

I would use Smoking Mirror's War Galley, but it has a bugged attack anim. Galleass is btw called War Galley in beta3c. :) Besides, it comes at the end of Ancient age and sees most use during the Middle Age. This is one of those things where I'm not too concerned about historical accuracy.

2.I think you should move Horse Archers to the ancient age. Make a new tech called Stirrups, require Horseback Riding and maybe some other tech. The HA should then be assigned to Stirrups. It should not be required for era advancement, but it should cost very much to discover either.

I think that would undermine the use of Horsemen completely. It may be just my playing style, but I already get Horsemen as one of the last units in Ancient age. HA is 3.1.3 and in my opinion it creates a good choice situation in the Middle Age. Knight with more attack and especially defense or HA with more speed.

3. I still think you should have more resources, my suggestions would be: Bananas/Fruit/Tropical Fruit, Pearls, Corn/Maize, Silver and Rice. You should´nt add them all, just two or three.

As Luxury or Bonus? I don't think more luxury resources are going in as that touches the mood governing (more luxuries = easier to keep people happy) Bonus resources are a bit trivial, but one or two could make it. However, the 4% of the tiles share all the resources makes me think twice about it.

4. I think rubber should have +1 production. I never understod why it did´nt.

Will do.

5. oh and the Stau of Liberty could be a wonder too.

I'll look into all these wonder suggestions on a later date, but thanks to both of you.
 
As Luxury or Bonus? I don't think more luxury resources are going in as that touches the mood governing (more luxuries = easier to keep people happy) Bonus resources are a bit trivial, but one or two could make it. However, the 4% of the tiles share all the resources makes me think twice about it.
I mean bonus:)

I think that would undermine the use of Horsemen completely. It may be just my playing style, but I already get Horsemen as one of the last units in Ancient age. HA is 3.1.3 and in my opinion it creates a good choice situation in the Middle Age. Knight with more attack and especially defense or HA with more speed.
Thats why it should have another prequiste, like Monarchy, then it would be almost like a Medieval unit, but still ancient.

I would use Smoking Mirror's War Galley, but it has a bugged attack anim. Galleass is btw called War Galley in beta3c. Besides, it comes at the end of Ancient age and sees most use during the Middle Age. This is one of those things where I'm not too concerned about historical accuracy.
So use the Persian Galley by Kryten, it is pretty good. I also think you should make the War Galley/Galleas the default barbarian sea unit.

Should´nt Destroyer upgrade to Modern Destroyer?
 
Originally posted by Yoda Power
Thats why it should have another prequiste, like Monarchy, then it would be almost like a Medieval unit, but still ancient.
I dunno, why should it specifically appear earlier?

So use the Persian Galley by Kryten, it is pretty good. I also think you should make the War Galley/Galleas the default barbarian sea unit.
Nah, Persian Galley looks too much like Galley to use them both. Besides, I really like the look of Galleass. ;) The barbarian thing could be considered, but do they carry troops with those galleys they use?

Should´nt Destroyer upgrade to Modern Destroyer?
It is supposed to do that. Will fix it for next release. :)
 
I dunno, why should it specifically appear earlier?
Because they were used in the ancient age too. Just ask Kryten;)

Nah, Persian Galley looks too much like Galley to use them both. Besides, I really like the look of Galleass. The barbarian thing could be considered, but do they carry troops with those galleys they use?
So use the Invasion barge, also by Kryten, it does´nt look like the Galley. The Galleas would still be in the game, but come a bit later.
The barbs dont carry troops, so it would´nt make a difference, exept they would get stronger ships.
 
Beta4 released

Download here (18MB) - see instructions in post #1 in this thread

Phew, I swear this is going to be the last release for a while. I've looked and looked for bugs and found none, all upgrade chains, unit and improvement costs look OK, I've tested the new units in game and done some actual testing now that I finally have the time for it.

Changelist:

- 7 new units
  • Javeliner 2.2.1 (Monarchy)
    Siege Cannon 6.1.1 (Chemistry)
    Corvette 3.2.4 (Astronomy)
    Infantry Tank 12.6.1 (Combustion)
    Armored Car 10.4.3 (Motorized Transport)
    Mercenary 12.10.2 (Social Sciences)
    Humvee 18.10.4 (The Laser)
- Terrain attributes (food, shields, trade) were reverted back to original Civ3 style. You can't mine forests any more, plains give shields, you can irrigate deserts and so on...
- Natural resources were changed a bit:
  • Sheep - 1 food, 1 shield instead of 2 shields
    Oasis - 1 food
- Royal Guard gives +25% defense instead of the overpowering Veteran units.
- Work Camp gives +25% production instead of the overpowering 50%.
- Oligarchy has normal workers, but rampant corruption.
- Frigate & Privateer come at Navigation.
- New upgrade chains:
  • ...Cavalry -> Armored Car -> Humvee
    Infantry Tank -> Armor (used to be Tank) -> Modern Armor
    Archer -> Javeliner -> Longbowman -> Guerrilla -> Mercenary
    ...Medieval Infantry -> Musket Infantry -> Riflemen...
- TV Station gives +50% tax instead of +2 happy faces
- Information Network gives additional +25% production in addition to the old attributes.
- International Television gives 2 happy faces in all cities
- Global Network is now a Great Wonder and an ultimate prize for going through the tech tree: Information Network in all cities.
- Wealth converts at normal rate of 6/1 shields to gold.
- Probably several other, smaller changes


Most of these changes are based on a game I just played. AI was struggling real bad with the 50% workers of Oligarchy, Zulus didn't have access to fresh water over desert so their grasslands and plains supported size 3-5 cities... Realistic it may be, but not intuitive. Also, the terrain system I had created, resulted in too much shields being generated. It was easier to go back and balance the additions to the familiar Civ3 terrain system.

Also, I'm sorry about there being no smaller upgrade patch. However, the mod feels in my opinion very solid now and I don't have any short term plans of adding anything major. If some bugs appear or things need changing, I think I can do them with very small patches. So this will be a more long term release than the ones before it. New wonders, 2 UU's and other additions I've discussed in this thread are currently on hold. They may go in at some point, but that point isn't anywhere in the foreseeable future.

Thanks for the interest. If you play the mod, please give feedback if you feel like it. Even if larger changes are on hold, I'd love to hear about the actual playmechanics, unique improvements of different governments and such.
 
I caught one minor bug. Infantry Tank upgrades only to Armor, not Panzer so Germans are at a slight disadvantage as they have to build all their panzers from scratch.

If Germans are your preferred civ or you just want to make sure the Germans you play against are not handicapped in the slightest, you may want to download this fixed .bix file. Just replace the Civ3+.bix with it. I won't make an official patch out of this, I'll wait if some larger problems come up and fix them at one go.
 

Attachments

I think Javelenir should be 3.1.1 instead of 2.2.1, it does´nt make sence that you upgrade Javelenir to Lonbowman and loose one defence. Have you thought about giving the archer line defencive bombard?
 
Originally posted by Yoda Power I think Javelenir should be 3.1.1 instead of 2.2.1, it does´nt make sence that you upgrade Javelenir to Lonbowman and loose one defence.

You are right, don't know why I didn't think of 3.1.1 as it's the logical stat for a resource free unit meant to be used in place of swordsmen. Maybe Kryten's suggested stats of 2.2. overrided my own sense.

Have you thought about giving the archer line defencive bombard?

I've thought of it, but have decided that it's a bit too far from the basic Civ3 gameplay to fit in this mod. I've tried to restrain myself when adding new feature in order for the mod to stay true to its slogan "Civ3 refined & diversified".

My ongoing game with beta4 has been very nice. I've felt that the added features and changes to the gameplay have been for the better and don't see myself going back to regular Civ3. One thing that is puzzling me is that for some reason AI seems to have a little harder time with this mod than with the basic Civ3. Or it's just that I've gotten better. :)
 
If you arent going to add second UU´s, then why not a culture specific UU? My suggestions:

Asia:Warrior Monk(PTW warrior monk) replace Medieval Infantry
Europe:Granadier(LouLong) replace Rifleman
Mediterrainean: Galleas(Admiral Kraken, use the new Galleas animation) replace Caravel
Middle East: Camel Warrior(jimmyh) replace Horseman
American:Many choices so im not sure

edit-I made a conversion of your mod to Kal-els large world map. Do yuo want me to post it?
 
Originally posted by Yoda Power
If you arent going to add second UU´s, then why not a culture specific UU? My suggestions:

Asia:Warrior Monk(PTW warrior monk) replace Medieval Infantry
Europe:Granadier(LouLong) replace Rifleman
Mediterrainean: Galleas(Admiral Kraken, use the new Galleas animation) replace Caravel
Middle East: Camel Warrior(jimmyh) replace Horseman
American:Many choices so im not sure

edit-I made a conversion of your mod to Kal-els large world map. Do yuo want me to post it?

Culture Specific UU's have been also under consideration, but I haven't totally given up on the 2 UU's thing yet. I think some kind of unit diversification in terms of civ/culture group is bound to to happen. Originally I thought if each culture group could get a unique unit for each era, but coming up with good units could get a little tricky. We'll see. :)

About the Kal-el's world map, first of all, huge thanks and secondly, go ahead and post it. (it's just .bix, right?)
 
Mod renamed DiverseCiv

Since name Civ3+ was taken and I didn't want to pick a fight with Sims2789, I decided to rename the mod.

About the name, I'm pretty happy with it. It's more unique than the somewhat bland Civ3+ and it also has a slight pun in it, although I don't think Diversive is proper english.

Now I just hope that the two people (*laugh here)* who know of the mod won't be too confused. Especially when the mod's folder and .bix are still called Civ3+. So nothing but the name has changed.
 
here it is. I actually made it for v3, but did´nt thought about posting it before now. I made one change: Oil can be found on plains. This was really neccesary to make the resources realitcly placed. The map is set to 22 civs, but that can bechanged ofcause. Europe has many resources, because many civs can start there.

feel free to put it in the download(credit to though;)). Do you know how to import a bix to bix?In case you dont now how to import bix to bix.
 
I've downloaded your mod and played around with it. I havn't had a whole lot of time to mess with it, but it looks like the best one I've seen. I have some suggestions:

Great wonder:

KGB- Best spy agency in the world for its time

Stat changes:

Special forces should have VERY low defense and maybe a boost to their movement. After all, IRL, they're supposed to be fast raiders who work in small numbers who could be easily routed in a clear, open ambush.

Nuclear subs need to be able to hold more missiles, maybe 4-8 each.

Subs (all) need a "free one hp hit" ability on damaged ships. As in, they could kill a 1 hp ship and maybe other damaged ships. After all, subs have an initial advantage over other ships since they can ambush others (and they are pretty useless in their present form).

Make cruise missiles more like their real life counterparts. The current cruise missile could be the "V1" rocket, and could hit within 2 squares, and could be loaded from nuclear subs or carriers, destroyers, or battleships. The V2 rocket could have a range of 4, and the Tomahawk could have a range of 6.

Patriot Missiles Battery. This would counter the power of the cruise missile. Each battery could reduce the chances of a sucessful missile strike. There could be 3 generations of patriot missiles.

Government changes:

Someone mentioned the Techno government and the religion effects. Perhaps The Techno government would reduce the effects of temples/cathedrals/sistine chaple/bach's cathedral by half. And make the government nuisanced corruption.

Green democracies need to ban nuclear and coal plants. Factories need to run at twice-3x the maintance costs (high regulations and taxes). Solar plants perhaps slightly higher maintance costs, or less efficiency. Make extra happy faces for this government.

Communist governments need communist gurellias. They don't count towards the the upkeep tab, they're cheap to build, they attack like privateers, they get extra defense bonuses when defending from jungles and mountains, and enemies treat them like barbarians (they don't get leaders from fighting them).

As for the socialism, their bonus building, should cause more happiness and perhaps healthier citizens, with a some loss in production and taxes(not an increase in production as it currently is). Socialist countries face far more strikes than other countries, and have shorter worker hours, longer vacations, but some countries have good health care.

Overall, the mod looks fantastic. If I didn't have summer classes and a job, I'd play it a ton. Keep up the good work!
 
Originally posted by Arcite36575 I've downloaded your mod and played around with it. I havn't had a whole lot of time to mess with it, but it looks like the best one I've seen.

Thank you. :)

Great wonder:

KGB- Best spy agency in the world for its time

A good suggestion for a GW, but Civ3 editor doesn't give too much options for stats, especially in the field of espionage. Could however look into it among with the other GW suggestions.

Special forces should have VERY low defense and maybe a boost to their movement. After all, IRL, they're supposed to be fast raiders who work in small numbers who could be easily routed in a clear, open ambush.

Equivalent of mod's Special Forces in real world could be US Marines or Rangers. In game terms, it's an upgrade of both Marine and Paratrooper incorporating the special abilities of both. The name is something of a compromise as it hints towards commando units.

Nuclear subs need to be able to hold more missiles, maybe 4-8 each.

Realistic it might be, but I'm not a big fan of nuclear weapons. If the player wants to take his nuclear weapons to the seas, he's going to have to invest in his nuclear submarines. I think 4-8 would be simply too powerful. 2 I might consider, but it's very iffy.

Subs (all) need a "free one hp hit" ability on damaged ships. As in, they could kill a 1 hp ship and maybe other damaged ships. After all, subs have an initial advantage over other ships since they can ambush others (and they are pretty useless in their present form).

Again, Civ3 editor doesn't give much options here. I could try out giving subs lethal bombardment and making them engage their enemies from a range.

Make cruise missiles more like their real life counterparts. The current cruise missile could be the "V1" rocket, and could hit within 2 squares, and could be loaded from nuclear subs or carriers, destroyers, or battleships. The V2 rocket could have a range of 4, and the Tomahawk could have a range of 6.

Unfortunately, the AI can't handle transportable cruise missiles. Advanced cruise missile is possible, but not yet in the current plans. :)

Patriot Missiles Battery. This would counter the power of the cruise missile. Each battery could reduce the chances of a sucessful missile strike. There could be 3 generations of patriot missiles.

Can't do. :( Editor doesn't have options for this.

Someone mentioned the Techno government and the religion effects. Perhaps The Techno government would reduce the effects of temples/cathedrals/sistine chaple/bach's cathedral by half. And make the government nuisanced corruption.

Government balancing is still ongoing so I have to look into the nuisance corruption. The halved effect on religious improvements can't naturally be done with the editor. :D

Green democracies need to ban nuclear and coal plants. Factories need to run at twice-3x the maintance costs (high regulations and taxes). Solar plants perhaps slightly higher maintance costs, or less efficiency. Make extra happy faces for this government.

Can't do nothing of the above due to editor restraints but the happy faces (which I feel are currently fine).

Communist governments need communist gurellias.

Units can't unfortunately be government specific.

As for the socialism, their bonus building, should cause more happiness and perhaps healthier citizens, with a some loss in production and taxes(not an increase in production as it currently is).

Production is there to counter the communal corruption that is a real problem for a peaceful builder civ. Modern Socialism is something I have yet to properly playtest.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm sorry about how most of your suggestions are simply impossible to do with the editor. It's not a very flexible tool. :(
 
Originally posted by Yoda Power
here it is. I actually made it for v3, but did´nt thought about posting it before now. I made one change: Oil can be found on plains. This was really neccesary to make the resources realitcly placed. The map is set to 22 civs, but that can bechanged ofcause. Europe has many resources, because many civs can start there.

feel free to put it in the download(credit to though;)). Do you know how to import a bix to bix?In case you dont now how to import bix to bix.

Thanks! :D I noticed this earlier, but I've been to busy to properly reply until now. I was going to ask about the .bix thing but it seems you already provided the answer. :) I'll put it in the post #1 and into future releases with changes imported (with credit naturally :) )
 
hmm . . . If it isn't possible to load cruise missiles into submarines, could you perhaps use the animation to the tactical nuke, and change the stats to a cruise missile (or something a little weaker), if that's possible.

The lethal bomardment for the sub's a good alternative. It needs something. Unfortunately, IRL, a sub's best use was targeting enemy shipping. No such recreation is possible in this game. Lethal bombardment's the only real use.

As for the nukes in the subs. Two per sub would make things balanced. Tactical nukes cost 300, ICBMs cost 500, so two per sub would be a good compromise, since tactical nukes are awkard to use comparted to ICBMs and need numerous turns to correct their allignment, and they can't hit deep in the mainland (and you need to cost of the nuculear sub).
I meant 4-8 if it were possible to add cruise missiles to the sub.
Yes, 8 nukes per sub would probably be unbalancing
:D
 
Drift:
I recently downloaded your Diverse civ3-beta 4 mod. From what I have read; it is really great. My problem: I don't have Play The World. I am using the original version of Civ3(1.29f patch )So the .bix file will not work. I have started to load it piece by piece into a .bic file and work out the incompatibilities.

I have one unit (Javeliner) loaded and three bonus resources (sheep, oasis, & volcano). I also have one new civilization (Mongols) loaded. Which brings me to the difficulty I am having. When ever the Temujin figure comes up; the script for his speach is:
; Alexander=playername

I am playing the Greeks. I don't understand why this happens. can you shed some light on this? You seem to know a great deal about how these mods work. The original Civ3 civilizations work ok.

Also, since I have to load the units in form scratch; it would help if I knew which unit number you used for each. I have guessed that the Javeliner is unit 80; but it is hard to tell from the units_32.pcx file.

This mod has really kept me interested the past week and I have learned some things about Civ3 files.
THANKS.


I was thinking that the offshore platform should be a mobile unit. anybody know how to get that darn drilling rig out of city improvements and into units.
 
Originally posted by Sparrow3
I am playing the Greeks. I don't understand why this happens. can you shed some light on this? You seem to know a great deal about how these mods work. The original Civ3 civilizations work ok.

I would really like to be able to help, but new civs is something I've never done. I learned modding while making DiverseCiv and my knowledge is still very partial. I think you should post the problem in main Creation & Customization forum so the real modding wizards can tell you exactly what's the problem.

Also, since I have to load the units in form scratch; it would help if I knew which unit number you used for each. I have guessed that the Javeliner is unit 80; but it is hard to tell from the units_32.pcx file.

I gotta go to work real soon (I'm drinking my morning coffee and it's 5:43AM) but I'll try to post the numbers some time today.

This mod has really kept me interested the past week and I have learned some things about Civ3 files.
THANKS.

Thank you for your kind words. :)

I was thinking that the offshore platform should be a mobile unit. anybody know how to get that darn drilling rig out of city improvements and into units.

Like so many other things, this can't be done. :) (or, of course you can have a oil rig unit, but it would be simply that - a unit with just a/d/m stats.
 
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