If you want protective, we could go Sitting Bull as well, Feudalism from Oracle and go crazy attacking with 8xp longbows.
DMI XIII - The CTON
- Thread starter ·Imhotep·
- Start date
Too bad, I would have played 
But I don't check CFC often enough anymore. Anyway Don't add me now, 7 players would be too many. Maybe I can be the official adviser (whatever the hell that means) I will briefly outline how I would consider choosing a civ.
Imhotep you need to get a bit more detailed about the settings (they matter for choosing a civ)-
-Are you playing Unrestricted?
-YOU MUST BALANCE the resources or the AI without metal/horse will roll over and die
-No Events right? right?
-No tribal huts right?
-Climate is important
-sealevel?
-
Ok in this setting you MUST take
Imp or Exp- with only 120-130 turns your score WILL matter, tech will NOT. I think Joao will be a VERY strong choose. In this game setting Imp will be just like being Agg.
Creative is ok why waste 20 hammers to pop your borders, 23 hammers is an Axe
Protective is ok for Choking, but Imhotep ruled that out so this is a crap trait
Financial is ok, you won't tech much past the classical period, but IF you get the right land this will get you there a lot sooner and maybe a bit further. IF you take Fin AND you get a lake start your trait is TOTALLY wasted. If you choose a temperate climate this trait is a slightly better pick since you may tech out of your 2nd city.
Philosophical this trait is total crap for this setting-useless
Charismatic you can whip a bit extra and promos come a bit quicker, but the WILL NOT be a decisive trait
Aggressive this trait will depend on how you play it, it can be used to great effect, or ignored.
Industrious - not a strong trait, but Oracle->Currency or Monarchy can be HUGE (but you don't need this trait to do it). The Great Wall can be very nice too. The Hanging Gardens are nice.
The strongest CTON Leaders (in no particular order) are Suryvariman, Shaka, Joao, Genghis, Catherine
Now if you play Unrestricted the strongest CTON Civs (IN ORDER) are India, Zulu, Egypt, and Persia. If choking was allowed this list might be a bit different. Basically it is ALL about the UU, being India is like being Expansive too- it is huge, too bad its techs SUCK.
BTW ELEPHANTS UBER ALLES
But I don't check CFC often enough anymore. Anyway Don't add me now, 7 players would be too many. Maybe I can be the official adviser (whatever the hell that means) I will briefly outline how I would consider choosing a civ. Imhotep you need to get a bit more detailed about the settings (they matter for choosing a civ)-
-Are you playing Unrestricted?
-YOU MUST BALANCE the resources or the AI without metal/horse will roll over and die
-No Events right? right?
-No tribal huts right?
-Climate is important
-sealevel?
-
Ok in this setting you MUST take
Imp or Exp- with only 120-130 turns your score WILL matter, tech will NOT. I think Joao will be a VERY strong choose. In this game setting Imp will be just like being Agg.
Creative is ok why waste 20 hammers to pop your borders, 23 hammers is an Axe
Protective is ok for Choking, but Imhotep ruled that out so this is a crap trait
Financial is ok, you won't tech much past the classical period, but IF you get the right land this will get you there a lot sooner and maybe a bit further. IF you take Fin AND you get a lake start your trait is TOTALLY wasted. If you choose a temperate climate this trait is a slightly better pick since you may tech out of your 2nd city.
Philosophical this trait is total crap for this setting-useless
Charismatic you can whip a bit extra and promos come a bit quicker, but the WILL NOT be a decisive trait
Aggressive this trait will depend on how you play it, it can be used to great effect, or ignored.
Industrious - not a strong trait, but Oracle->Currency or Monarchy can be HUGE (but you don't need this trait to do it). The Great Wall can be very nice too. The Hanging Gardens are nice.
The strongest CTON Leaders (in no particular order) are Suryvariman, Shaka, Joao, Genghis, Catherine
Now if you play Unrestricted the strongest CTON Civs (IN ORDER) are India, Zulu, Egypt, and Persia. If choking was allowed this list might be a bit different. Basically it is ALL about the UU, being India is like being Expansive too- it is huge, too bad its techs SUCK.
BTW ELEPHANTS UBER ALLES
sunrise089
Not that good
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 798
@Atlas -
I don't think Imhotep is limiting this game to 120 turns, I think he just wanted to explain the MP settings this game is based off of.
I don't think Imhotep is limiting this game to 120 turns, I think he just wanted to explain the MP settings this game is based off of.
·Imhotep·
Legendary Builder
@Atlas:
Anyway I do add you now
. I have had some droputs and swaps/skips in my SGs lately, and to have more players is a great relief in such a situation. Also we're not playing a turn limited game, it's like Ironman, to speak in MP terms .
As for your other questions:
-Are you playing Unrestricted? Yes, I think we'll do that. Agg Rome and Zulus are out for us though. I'm leaning towards Joao of Mongolia ATM...
-YOU MUST BALANCE the resources or the AI without metal/horse will roll over and die - Definitely yes.
-No Events right? right? Right.
-No tribal huts right? Right.
-Climate is important. Temperate.
-sealevel? Low on a standard or large Inland Sea, I want more free land for the AI.
I'll decide on a leader and a civ tomorrow and will put up the save and the start
. Also I have an advice for our other players: Atlas, sunrise and myself are regular MP players on the ladder (http://www.league.civplayers.com), so we know the settings and the type of game quite well. You should get yourself familiar with quick speed especially, as it is a really huge difference to normal or epic speed...
Imhotep
Anyway I do add you now
. I have had some droputs and swaps/skips in my SGs lately, and to have more players is a great relief in such a situation. Also we're not playing a turn limited game, it's like Ironman, to speak in MP terms .As for your other questions:
-Are you playing Unrestricted? Yes, I think we'll do that. Agg Rome and Zulus are out for us though. I'm leaning towards Joao of Mongolia ATM...
-YOU MUST BALANCE the resources or the AI without metal/horse will roll over and die - Definitely yes.
-No Events right? right? Right.
-No tribal huts right? Right.
-Climate is important. Temperate.
-sealevel? Low on a standard or large Inland Sea, I want more free land for the AI.
I'll decide on a leader and a civ tomorrow and will put up the save and the start
. Also I have an advice for our other players: Atlas, sunrise and myself are regular MP players on the ladder (http://www.league.civplayers.com), so we know the settings and the type of game quite well. You should get yourself familiar with quick speed especially, as it is a really huge difference to normal or epic speed...Imhotep
Indiansmoke
Deity
Nice thread Imhotep...curious to see how this will be recreated....
From my experience with CTONs the best traits are expansive, creative, inperialistic, financial and organized.
Aggressive is not that good as that in order to win against humans you need lots of cities and land and aggressive will not help much with this....as you know chariots and horse archers are the killers not axes
There is a relative thread in civplayers forums and some good players seem to think that organized is actually the best trait!!
I can see the point...when you have 13 cities, organized saves alot of money..
I personnaly find expansive creative the best...
From my experience with CTONs the best traits are expansive, creative, inperialistic, financial and organized.
Aggressive is not that good as that in order to win against humans you need lots of cities and land and aggressive will not help much with this....as you know chariots and horse archers are the killers not axes
There is a relative thread in civplayers forums and some good players seem to think that organized is actually the best trait!!
I can see the point...when you have 13 cities, organized saves alot of money..
I personnaly find expansive creative the best...
·Imhotep·
Legendary Builder
Okay guys, here we go:
This is our leader:
Settings are:
Map: HB_InlandSea V2, Balanced Resources
Size: Large
Sealevel: Low
Climate: Temperate
Options: No Barbs, Always War, No Tech Trading, No Tech Brokering, No Vassal States, No Huts, No Random Events
Victory: ONLY Time and Conquest
This is our start:
Quite nice . The AI has extra space as I put one AI less than normal for a Large map, but though we play on Emperor the AI does NOT start with Archery (but has its initial Archers). I checked and made sure resources are balanced. Let the fun begin! 
Roster duty:
This is our leader:
Settings are:
Map: HB_InlandSea V2, Balanced Resources
Size: Large
Sealevel: Low
Climate: Temperate
Options: No Barbs, Always War, No Tech Trading, No Tech Brokering, No Vassal States, No Huts, No Random Events
Victory: ONLY Time and Conquest
This is our start:
Quite nice
. The AI has extra space as I put one AI less than normal for a Large map, but though we play on Emperor the AI does NOT start with Archery (but has its initial Archers). I checked and made sure resources are balanced. Let the fun begin! Roster duty:
- Imhotep >> JUST SET UP THE MAP
- Atlas >> UP NOW
- pigswill >> ON DECK
- Ozbenno
- berserks01
- GreyFox
- sunrise089
Interesting start. Would it be worth moving the settler off the hill to get the gold? I'm assuming as Mongols, its a straight run to Horseback Riding and then Construction?
berserks01
Obviously Very Confused
Yep. I'd suggest settling on the phant 1W.
Ok, unless I hear differently I AM going to found DIRECTLY on that elephant. I will also build a worker first and probably tech Agriculture->Animal Husbandry.
How many turns should I play? On quick speed maybe the first turn should only be 10-15? What do people think?
How many turns should I play? On quick speed maybe the first turn should only be 10-15? What do people think?
·Imhotep·
Legendary Builder
15 turns should be fine, and yes, Agriculture => AH seems the way to go. We will have some leeway in terms of AI aggression as the map is really big - so no hurry to rush Archery...
berserks01
Obviously Very Confused
Horse archers??? No, sir. We will pump out 7exp Keshiks!!! At least for early wars.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Also the major reason for building on elephants is to get the goldmine which ain't much use before we learn mining. Maybe consider going ag>mining>AH coz the goldmine will speed subsequent research and agric will allow us to work the gold and still grow.
Edit: maybe consider warrior first because if we're unlucky we could meet an exploring AI archer early on which would waltz into our undefended capital.
Edit: maybe consider warrior first because if we're unlucky we could meet an exploring AI archer early on which would waltz into our undefended capital.
sunrise089
Not that good
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 798
Atlast - Although it certainly isn't my real CTON build/tech order, I agree with your choices for this game. Definitely settle on the elephant.
Pigswill - The beauty of playing risky on the very first set of turns is that having to restart the game isn't a very stiff penalty.
Pigswill - The beauty of playing risky on the very first set of turns is that having to restart the game isn't a very stiff penalty.
Not really an issue, since we will settle on a 2 hammer tile (ivory, which btw is the reason for settling there, the gold is just icing on the cake) then we can build a 3 turn warrior working any 1/2 tile and we have a number of them. I will play right now.
T-0 Found Capital in agreed upon Spot
Turn 6 found someone to the West
Turn 7 worker finishes- move him 1 tile northwest, command him to road. Then cancel the command so that on turn 8 he can begin to farm the wheat
Also this happens on turn 7
Also I do the unthinkable (but perfect play for a real MP cton) I start a second worker. That is right worker->worker at size one
Turn 10 I met this guy from the South
Turn 12 We get Mining- this IS better than Animal Husbandry, and at this point I think, we probably should get Pottery BEFORE Animal Husbandry, there are more tiles we can cottage than we can pasture, however I DID not tech pottery and stuck with Animal Husbandry since it is still a good choice and I did not want to surprise everyone with a VERY atypical play. Additionally there are LOTS of floodplains near our start. We have VERY good land for teching. I basically scouted in a big circle around our land, instead of going to find a neighbor. The reason for this was so that when metal is revealed we WILL see it.
So mining on turn 12 was the last real event of the turn set. I would argue that we need pottery next THEN bronze worker. I think we should go warrior->warrior and at size 3 start a settler and put it next to horse/metal. If we can't see metal at that point or horse put it north toward the pig.
This is inland sea and we are in the North East corner of the map. This is a really nice spot to be because we can safely found cities in the corner of the map and not have them exposed to our enemies. I think any close in scouting of our neighbors should be done with chariots.
Have Fun!
Turn 6 found someone to the West
Turn 7 worker finishes- move him 1 tile northwest, command him to road. Then cancel the command so that on turn 8 he can begin to farm the wheat
Also this happens on turn 7
Also I do the unthinkable (but perfect play for a real MP cton) I start a second worker. That is right worker->worker at size one
Turn 10 I met this guy from the South
Turn 12 We get Mining- this IS better than Animal Husbandry, and at this point I think, we probably should get Pottery BEFORE Animal Husbandry, there are more tiles we can cottage than we can pasture, however I DID not tech pottery and stuck with Animal Husbandry since it is still a good choice and I did not want to surprise everyone with a VERY atypical play. Additionally there are LOTS of floodplains near our start. We have VERY good land for teching. I basically scouted in a big circle around our land, instead of going to find a neighbor. The reason for this was so that when metal is revealed we WILL see it.
So mining on turn 12 was the last real event of the turn set. I would argue that we need pottery next THEN bronze worker. I think we should go warrior->warrior and at size 3 start a settler and put it next to horse/metal. If we can't see metal at that point or horse put it north toward the pig.
This is inland sea and we are in the North East corner of the map. This is a really nice spot to be because we can safely found cities in the corner of the map and not have them exposed to our enemies. I think any close in scouting of our neighbors should be done with chariots.
Have Fun!
·Imhotep·
Legendary Builder
Great opening turns, as expected! Our land is very nice, and I promise you it will get even nicer . This game will be fun!
Roster duty:
Our land is very nice, and I promise you it will get even nicer . This game will be fun! Roster duty:
- Imhotep
- Atlas >> JUST PLAYED
- pigswill >> UP NOW
- Ozbenno >> ON DECK
- berserks01
- GreyFox
- sunrise089
pigswill
fly (one day)
Got it.
Its going to be interesting to see how AI opponents compare to human opponents. Its reasonable to assume that the AI will be less sophisticated in strategy and fighting wars, on the other hand at emperor they'll be getting bonusses so we can expect to face larger stacks.
Keshiks followed by an elepult stack seems a fairly obvious way to go in the medium term.
In the short term its not so obvious. Maybe I'll play four turns until AH is in and we know if we've got horses in a decent location.
Its going to be interesting to see how AI opponents compare to human opponents. Its reasonable to assume that the AI will be less sophisticated in strategy and fighting wars, on the other hand at emperor they'll be getting bonusses so we can expect to face larger stacks.
Keshiks followed by an elepult stack seems a fairly obvious way to go in the medium term.
In the short term its not so obvious. Maybe I'll play four turns until AH is in and we know if we've got horses in a decent location.
pigswill
fly (one day)
With the goldmine it was only three turns for AH. We've built a warrior, next turn we complete second warrior and grow to pop 3. BW is a holding tech, no beakers invested yet.
Yes, we have horses in BFC.
Yes, we have horses in BFC.
