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DMOC's Immortal Game #1 - Playing as Darius I

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by DMOC, Apr 15, 2008.

  1. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Stealing tech might be a viable idea. I'll have to see how many EP's I can get on Elizabeth or if I can get Alphabet early. Right now my research priority is getting Code of Laws and Mathematics ASAP.

    By the way, here is a preliminary dotmap I have drawn up. Since I suck at using Photoshop, I decided to just make a dotmap right from using the game "line" settings.

    KEY:

    Cities already owned:

    1 (Capital) Persepolis - Commerce city, with a future Oxford University.

    2. Pasargade - Commerce city

    3. Seoul - Production city with Heroic Epic and Ironworks. It has plenty of food, hills, and is also on a river.

    4. Pyongyang - GP farm. Irrigated corn along with 5 floodplains. :crazyeye:


    Cities yet to be founded:

    (Please be aware that the numbers mean the order I will found them, meaning that city 5 will be founded first. If I can't found it there I will head for city 6.)

    5. Aim is to block Elizabeth. If I manage to found it, I will use its grasslands to cottage and its hills for production. It will likely be a hybrid, and is also coastal with only 2 coastal tiles. :D

    6. Another cottage city, with 8 floodplains (means -3 :health:) and sheep. It is also close to the capital, meaning less maintenance costs, and solidifies our cultural border. Later on, it will likely be the Globe Theatre city, which may result in me putting down 1 or 2 farms.

    7. A production city, although due to grasslands I may cottage it. Horses and all the hills it has will make it have excellent production, but not as good as Seoul.

    8. Another production city, with Iron, Sheep, Corn, and a bunch of hills. It will likely bear the brunt of barbarian attacks.


    With resources:

    Spoiler :


    Without resources:

    Spoiler :


    What do you think?
     
  2. BurN

    BurN Prince

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    Why didn't you go alph->currency? Considering liz went priest->col/monarchy. But now it's too late to change techs, why are you teching poly? Are you aiming at GL?

    For the rest it looks fine to me.
     
  3. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Round 3: 1050 BC to 425 BC (28 Turns)


    This round was short and uneventful as I rebuilt from my early rush. I also didn't have that much leisure time this week, so a quick round to keep everyone interested the game would be nice.

    Firstly, I decided that I needed a break in order to rebuild the economy after the war, so I made peace with Wang Kon.



    After that, I set about micromanaging among cities and adjusting their city builds. As an example, Seoul's build was switched from a monument to a worker after I realized that the Buddhist holy city which generates 5 culture a turn does not need a monument. The capital also switched from building an immortal to a worker.

    Meanwhile, I decided to continue researching Polytheism. It may come in handy soon because by the end of the round, I am still planning on researching Priesthood and then to Code of Laws. However, I decided to follow BurN's advice on researching Alphabet soon since both of my continent mates lacked it. My plan was that if Elizabeth did not tech to Alphabet after she finished researching Monarchy, I would tech to Alphabet.

    A few turns later, I finished Polytheism:



    And as you can see, Elizabeth was teching Mathematics! This meant that Alphabet was to be the next technology.



    I didn't research Alphabet that turn -- I had beakers invested in Mathematics that I didn't want to decay, so I invested a turn in researching Mathematics, then reverted to Alphabet. I did this again after 10 more turns.

    P'yongyang also came out of revolt this turn, adding a grand total of 5 beakers to my beakers-per-turn thanks to the town that Wang built. Nice! I started building a library and would later whip it in the city so it could start running scientists ASAP. Growth would certainly be little of a dilemma with all those floodplains surrounding P'yongyang.

    Another reason why my research improved this round was the completing of a gems mine adjacent to Pasargade. 8 commerce and 2 food!



    While my economy was improving, my scout (who STILL hasn't died to barbarians) explored the northern part of the continent, and found a barbarian city.



    3 silk and 3 sugar resources. Perhaps I should capture and keep it? (Not anytime soon, though!)

    I also settled the Great General I earned in the previous round in Seoul, the projected Heroic Epic city.



    Yeah, I've got to do something about Korean culture.

    Finally, I researched Alphabet.



    Elizabeth had teched to Mathematics and Construction this round. That was fine with me -- Wang had already researched Construction in the middle of last round, so it means the AI's are researching similar technologies, which means less trading for them. By the way, if you're wondering why Elizabeth hasn't expanded, it may be because of all the missionaries she's been producing. She's also made at least 1 religious shrine by the end of the round.

    Anyway, I immediately checked the technology situation upon obtaining Alphabet.



    Wang has exactly the same technologies provided but of course, due to my ... declaration of war, he's quite unwilling to part with them. :blush: I proceeded to finish up Mathematics, since it would unlock several essential technologies, such as Civil Service.

    On the same turn I completed Alphabet, I also founded another city, but not in a location where my previous dotmap had put it.



    The city is actually southeast of where I originally thought about placing it. I pondered practically five whole minutes on wether I should have settled it where it is now or where I said I would put the city before. But this convinced me -- the iron resource. A city founded in my original dotmap would gain the copper, but also gain several plains tiles and miss out on the iron mine. The location where I decided to put the city gains more grasslands and less hills while also having iron -- which can be used for both axes and swordsmen.

    And a random event...I smell another war approaching.



    Mathematics was complete soon after, and I ended the round at that point.



    [To be continued in next post]
     
  4. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    [Continued from previous post]


    Here are my current research choices.



    I'm leaning towards Polytheism so I can get Code of Laws ASAP -- for the courthouses (half price for me) and espoinage points from them. As you can see, I have lost visibility on Elizabeth's research. Her GNP is a little more than twice as much as mine, and I believe that even with only 3 cities, she has the top GNP of anyone. But is there a better technology to research at this point?

    Domestic advisor:



    I have one scientist running in P'yongyang, which will result in a GS in 41 turns. Don't worry -- it won't take that long since I will grow the city to size 4 once whip unhappiness wears off, and that will greatly accelerate the first scientists' arrival.

    Technology:



    The northern half of the map, with Elizabeth's 3 cities fully scouted out.



    The southern half.



    And lastly, poor Seoul engulfed by Korean culture.




    So there ends Round 3. There are several major decisions which I need help on.

    1. Should I renew a war with Wang soon? It would definitely ease cultural pressure on Seoul but result in me being even further behind in technology. It would also cause a -1 demerit with Elizabeth since, even with opposing religions, she and Wang are PLEASED with each other. :mad: Their heathen religion demerit isn't even increasing at all! Elizabeth's -2 demerit has stayed that way since the start of the game and Wang's -3 demerit towards Elizabeth actually decreased to -2.

    2. What technology should I research? I'm aiming for Priesthood or Masonry (unlocks construction) followed by Code of Laws. But what about Aesthetics or Currency, neither of which have been researched by my two continental rivals.

    3. Should I found another city soon? Obviously, this ties in with my first question, but if I don't renew a war with Wang, I think it makes sense to build the floodplains city south of the capital that I proposed in my most recent dotmap.

    4. What do I do with my first few Great Scientists? I'm thinking of using the first for an academy in the capital, then the second to bulb Philosophy. Agreed?

    5. Lastly, what religion should I adopt? Buddhism, Hinduism, and Christianity are present in my cities.

    If anyone has any help or advice or questions or ... anything, please comment! I would love to read them. :)

    The save:
     

    Attached Files:

  5. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish Deity

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    If you can beat Korea, then you definintly want to declare war on him. While the short term consequences are bad (further behind in tech) the long term benefits are so much better. One less civ to deal with, and all those cities become yours! Plus, as you said yourself, Seoul won't be an issue. With those cities added to your civilization, your science rates will be more since you have cities. More cities=more research. Then, after a while you should be able to catch elizabeth(tech wise) then pass her.

    I would also try to stop Elizabeth's expansion. If you can stop her expansion and invade Korea, your civ will be a LOT bigger than hers. Then, who knows? At some point in the game you might even be able to invade England!

    So it just comes down to this: Can you invade Korea, or can you not? If you can't do it, don't declare war. If you can, then yes! If you are going to declare war against korea, now is the time- while your immortals still aren't out of date (or are they?)

    If I were you, I'd convert to Hinduism, since thats Elizabeth's religion. That way, she will be pleased with you, to reduce her chances of declaring war on you after you "declare war on her friend". Then, if you declare war on her some day, she'll never see it coming! If not, you'll have earned a friend that is close to your borders(never a bad thing)

    As for your great people? If you have two, and your going to war, starting a golden age might not be a bad idea. If you can beat korea without a golden age, then obviously it would be a waste(or would it?)

    This stage of the game is great for war in one regard. That is, if you declare war now, where the only people that know about korea is you and england, the only person that will get mad at you for "declaring war on there friend" is England. Then, once Korea falls, your civ will be about double hers in terms of size. Then its probably England next.

    England is hogging all the religions you say? Then that just makes it even more essential. Invade Korea now, stop English expansion, then, when you can, take out England. Then, when you have all those religious holy cities you can start popping out your great prophets, and getting holy shrines that will act like a cash cow. Plus, a lot of culture. If you can successfully invade Korea the rest of the game should be, a piece of cake.

    Even if your looking at a long and hard war with Korea, if you can eventually put them off the map, do it! The only reason to not do it, is if your absolutely positive you can't invade them. You managed to invade two of there cities- one of them being their capital, already.

    As a result of your previous war, Korea has only gotten weaker and you have only gotten stronger. I don't see why you'd have a problem putting them off the map. If I were you, I'd start getting those immortals out (unless you have something better) and kick there butts!
     
  6. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    True, yes. I am planning on razing all current Korean cities, though, including the one which Wang will found on the first turn of the next round (he has a settler and 2 archers ready to found a city north of his capital).



    Elizabeth has started to expand (she has settlers now) so I have done all I can up to this point trying to block her, especially with my fifth city.

    A war will likely wait until catapults, but will definitely include immortals. I can't declare war right now, though, since my power is now weaker than Wang's.

    I was thinking about converting to Hinduism. Perhaps I should do it now?

    I am quite a number of turns away from my first great person (a scientist). I won't be using them for golden ages, though. By the way, you only need one great person to initiate a golden age.

    That makes the situation nice. I am hoping to have the destruction of Korea time with a discovery of Optics so when 1 civ is down, the civs from the other continent meet up with Elizabeth and I and we can continue tech trading!

    I currently have access to Iron which gives me both Axes and Swords. Due to a random event giving Flanking 1 to all mounted units, I will definitely create a few more immortals, but also make a substantial amount of swordsmen as well. I'm just worried if catapults will be necessary for this war.
     
  7. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    I believe it is because you captured the buddhist holy city. Having the holy city usually adds or subtracts demerits. An AI that has the same religion as you and the holy city for that religion will be extra happy with you and if you have another religion it will be more displeased because of the holy city.
     
  8. Johan^^

    Johan^^ Warlord

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    Take the northern WK city and see where or not you can get peace for alot of techs.. if not, take Wonsan and try again. If he still does not want to give away techs, kill him :D

    I would go to war soon with flanking II Immortals and maybe some swords. If you wait for catapults, he might get Feudalisme ?.....
     
  9. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Really? Wow, I never knew that.

    My plan is to actually take Wonsan first, since it's threatening both P'yongyang and Seoul's culture, whereas Wang's current capital only threatens Seoul's culture. After Wonsan, I will plan on attacking up north.

    And yes, a war before feudalism, which means I'll have to watch out if Wang adopts Hereditary Rule, and also research Masonry to get Construction. Protective longbows would simply be a nightmare.


    My research path now would probably be Masonry, then Priesthood, then CoL, THEN Construction, while using a second GS to bulb Philosophy which I can use to trade (perhaps for Construction?) with Elizabeth.


    Also, an update can't come this week until AFTER May 8, since I have a really important exam on that day. I haven't touched my BtS CD for a week.
     
  10. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Round 4: 410 BC to 115 AD (36 Turns)


    Finally! It feels great to be back playing Civ after spending weeks studying.

    I had to refresh my memory a bit, so I repeated to myself: my plan is to tech towards Code of Laws, Construction, as well as to give Wang a beating. For the most part, I achieved that goal this round.

    The first thing I did in order to research Construction was to change my projected research of Polytheism to Masonry, which would then be followed by Priesthood.

    (By the way, as evident from the screenshots, I am using BUG now, and I like it.)

    Back to the round. Wang started off by founding another annoying city up near where I was going to put a city up.



    Great, that just means more trouble for me. And all for a razed city.

    After a few turns in the round, P'yongyang's whip weariness wore off so I could increase the city to size 4 and run 2 scientists, accelerating the arrival of the first great scientist, which you can see on the top of the screen below the technology researching bar. Another reason why BUG is a great feature -- no need to check the city as much. I also micromanaged the tiles to reach size 2 the fastest, sacrificing some production in the process.





    Along the way, Elizabeth demanded Alphabet.



    I rejected her, for the following reasons:

    • She doesn't give a -2 demerit for refusing demands.
    • She has a high base peaceweight so she likely won't declare war
    • I want to preserve my "Alphabet" tech lead over her
    • Too many other reasons to list....

    Priesthood was done, and I next researched Code of Laws.



    Organized gives me cheap courthouses, which made the tech especially attractive to me.

    By the way, my plan on keeping an Alphabet monopoly failed when Wang self-researched it.



    A few turns later, he and Elizabeth who are pleased at each other traded among themselve so I'm now further behind (they have the same techs among themselves except that Elizabeth has Metal Casting). He even has Monarchy! Feudalism is only one tech away and I'd better hastily build up my nascent military in order to strike him beforehand.

    Susa's borders also expanded, completing my blocking. Note Elizabeth's fourth and useless city. :rolleyes:



    Also, I finally converted to Hinduism. Why I didn't do this before...I don't really know. Must have been a little mind-slip by me. That conversion brought Elizabeth up to 'pleased' status with me and she gave me fishing for free when I asked for it.

    A number of turns later, Code of Laws was researched.



    Up next, Construction. Both of my continental peers are unwilling to trade away Construction (anyone know why the AI highly values the technology?) so I must self research it.

    Meanwhile, I earned a great scientist, John Dalton. He would have lightbulbed Aesthetics and I thought that it was more worthwhile to build an academy in my capital, Persepolis.

    After researching Construction, I next decided on Civil Service, since it offers me many benefits, is on the Liberalism path, and Elizabeth does not have it. Elizabeth does have Currency, Aesthetics, Metal Casting, and Theology on me, though. :crazyeye:



    Don't forget, though, that throughout all this time, I was building up a force composed of mainly Immortals and Swordsmen. Just as I was about ready to declare war, I noticed that Wang had a worker and settler escorted by 2 archers on a floodplain. How could I resist?



    Yep, we're at it again, Wang. Thankfully, my power was higher than his, as can be seen on the scoreboard where my power is 1.3 times as much as his. 2 Immortals easily dispatched the 2 hapless archers and I sent the bulk of my swordsmen into Wonsan. 4 of them had 5 XP thanks to Seoul's military instructor.

    The situation at Wonsan was as follows:



    And it's on a hill, too. :sad: Don't worry, though. The swordsmen that I've highlighted here are only half of the invasion force. The other stack is residing on the forest to the northwest of Wonsan. Splitting up my stack proved to be a wise move as Wang's hwacha became confused and didn't attack either stack! :goodjob:

    I was confident enough to attack the city, so I first attacked with 3 CR1 swords. One died, dealing damage. The second won at 13% odds, and the third died but dealt damage to the last archer left. It did take 2 swords to take down the Hwacha, but doing so meant that the C3 immortal easily dispatched the last remaining archer, and the city was captured. And razed.

    So this is where I stopped, as I was tired and am a little busy.

    [To be continued in next post]
     

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  11. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    [Continued from previous post]


    Domestic advisor:



    Technology:



    Demographics:



    Map of the north:



    Map of the south:




    So, any thoughts, criticisms, questions, or anything? How am I doing? I at least made it to the ADs so I assume I am doing okay...

    My plan for next round is to continue the war. I will send another immortal to the west to easily dispatch Wang's annoying size 1 tundra city. Simultaneously, I will be sending my main force of swordsmen/immortals/catapults to raze Pusan, then raze Wang's last city. Agree?

    In terms of economic recovery, I'll likely found the floodplains city I'd been planning since last round and just spam courthouses everywhere and catch up to Elizabeth.

    So technology should be (in my opinion, although I am welcome to changes) CS followed by a Philo lightbulb? What else do I need to prioritize?

    Hope to hear some good advice from you guys! :)
     
  12. vale

    vale Mathematician

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    I've seen multiple people mention this beaker decay idea and at least as late as warlords 2.08 no such thing existed according to Voice of Unreason.

    Has something changed in BTS or is this some sort of urban legend being spread around the community. VoU?
     
  13. vale

    vale Mathematician

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    Ok, from some limited testing, it appears that nothing has changed. Beaker decay does not exist.

    Edit to add: VoU did some digging through the new code. He says there still is no Beaker decay.

    Incidentally he adds that the lost beakers in events like "progress comes slower..." are based on total cost of the tech and total investment in the tech. So it is another reason to go with binary research (0 or 100%)
     
  14. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish Deity

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    I'd continue your war with wang. Try to gain as much territory as possible. You may want to consider not razing at least a few of the cities you capture.
     
  15. mystyfly

    mystyfly Knight of Cydonia

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    @vale:
    TY very much this beaker decay stuff confused me, I've never heard of it before. :crazyeye:

    @DMOC:
    I think aggression is the way to go (well I always think that :p). Nice game so far but you really need some cities now. You delayed finishing off wang long enought. At least you built quite some units to get rid of those stupid koreans.
    Next I'd attack lizzy, capturing York, razing Hastings and score some techs for peace. Rinse and repeat.
    Then fill your continent with settlers. You probabely shouldn't fogbust so your units have something to do after lizzy is down. You can use the money you get from capturing those cities.
    Getting currency is a priority. You also MUST get some GPs going, preferabely GS of course. You're somewhat behind on the lib race so I suggest lots of bulbing (probabely Philo, Paper, Edu, Lib. Thats 4 GS which is doable. Remember, to bulb lib you must avoid machinery and have compass and calendar (IIRC).

    Nice idea and keep it up :thumbsup:
     
  16. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Re construction: I've noticed that the latest AI beeline is engineering which may be why they prioritise construction and are unwilling to trade it.
     
  17. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish Deity

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    I second that. Thats exactly the right thing to do.
     
  18. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Bulbing on the Liberalism path was what I was thinking of doing as well, so it looks like some people are on the same page as I am.

    And yeah, I do need more cities. After my capital finishes its whipped catapult, I'll start on a settler for the floodplains/globe theatre site.
     
  19. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    I have played the next round. I will post up the update once my sluggish internet speed starts to hype up.
     
  20. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Round 5: 130 AD to 580 AD (31 Turns)

    Okay, this update might not seem the most optimal since I spent a good half hour (or more) typing up a decent-quality write up but then when I posted, a stupid forum ad ("please visit our sponsor") blocked the post and caused me to lose all of my text! I wish they could get rid of those things when people try to post stuff.

    Anyway, here's basically a quick recap:

    I attacked and razed this tundra city of Wang's, which came with 2 free workers.



    I then gathered my remaining forces to assault Pusan. Here's what the defense was like a few turns before the attack began.



    Here is my actual attack force:



    And here is when the attack began:



    I attacked with all 4 catapults with 3 of them not surviving. But fortunately, after the catapults had done their duty, my swords could easily raze the city.



    Once that city was razed, Wang only had 1 city left. He would have offered a couple of cheap techs -- not worth it. I sent my forces up to Wang's last city.



    A weak defense... Wang, don't you think that in a war, you should be making units like crazy?

    The result, with the cost of 1 catapult:



    Finally! A long struggle originating in 1400 BC has resulted in a Persian victory! :goodjob: Now comes the arduous process of rebuilding the economy. Step 1? See the domestic advisor:



    Pretty self explanatory? Step 2: Civil Service! Once that tech was researched (355 AD), I went and checked out the technology situation verses the English.



    Anyone know why Elizabeth will only trade Monotheism and Monarchy and not all the other techs?

    Meanwhile, after Civil Service, I researche Sailing which took one turn, then I decided to research Currency after that.



    I debated quite a long time on this, and if the forum hadn't put up that ad when I posted, I could have kept a 3 - paragraph description on why I had chosen Currency to research. Oh well -- I might get to retyping my full summary of this round someday.

    Oh yeah, one more thing -- after my capital made a settler, I did the following civics change.



    And soon after, founded city #6...



    ...I got city #7 by force using my veteran units...



    ...and also razed a barbarian city with only one immortal thanks to Elizabeth's failed attempt.



    After Currency was researched (which, by the way, increased my beakers - per - turn from 139 to 149 at 70% research), I then chose Calendar to research due to the abundance of happy resources (Sugar, spices, and silk are all present).



    Once Calendar was complete, I researched Meditation (Research went Civil Service-Sailing-Currency-Calendar-Meditation), and then I ended the round.

    [To be continued in next post]
     

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