1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

DMOC's Immortal Game #1 - Playing as Darius I

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by DMOC, Apr 15, 2008.

  1. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    5,594
    [Continued from previous post]

    @ 580 AD...

    Domestic advisor:



    Foreign advisor:



    Military advisor:



    Technology situation:



    Demographics:



    (Number 1 in Land Area!)

    Map of north:



    Map of south:



    ------------------[Detailed pictures]-------------------

    A view of P'yongyang under Caste System, which will generate my Great Scientists.



    My plan on filling in the jungle area:



    I only plan on adding 1 more city to the jungle, but should I split the remaining jungle into 2 different cities rather than just 1?

    And what to do about the southwest...?




    Plan for next round

    Use the next Great Scientist for Philosophy, while self-researching Metal Casting, then adopt Pacifism and research paper (I don't think I can gereate a GS that quick) , Education (bulb once) and self research Liberalism. I will also continue expanding.

    After getting Liberalism, perhaps go Machinery/Monarchy/Optics and find other civs.

    Points of Interest

    • Elizabeth has Feudalism and Longbows
    • Elizabeth only has 5 cities yet she has 2 settlers idle in her cities. The blocking is working!
    • Elizabeth has Optics and caravels, and can research Astronomy if she wanted to right now.
    • I am 8 turns away from my next Great Scientist (philosophy bulb).
    • I have 2 sentry immortals in the south so fogbusting shouldn't be a problem.
    • I have 30 population compared to Elizabeth's 35, but I have 7 cities to her 5 and an #1 in land area according to demographics.



    So, any advice, comments, criticisms, suggestions, etc.? :)


    And the save:
     

    Attached Files:

  2. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    5,594
    No comments? We seem to be a bit short on discussion now.
     
  3. timmy827

    timmy827 King

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    658
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA
    I would have kept Pusan, easily would've paid for itself after whipping courthouse, but that's what I get for not reading the thread earlier. In general it seems that you are a bit overcautious about the economy (although it could be leader unfamiliarity, you can do pretty ridiculous things with Darius's traits), your "now begins the arduous economy rebuild" comment came at a point when it was far from crashed.

    Go Aesthetics->Lit for the epics over MC, refound the hill tundra city to get the marble.

    What is your liberalism goal tech?

    Minor point - chopping the granary at Ecbatana is a much better way to get it growing that building yet another farm (also the sheep is better than the fp farm!). If you put the national epic in Pyonyang it seems that Ecbatana would be better off as a cottage powerhouse. Similarly, the plains farm just built at Pyonyang seems like a waste as there are 6 higher food tiles to work and currently you're working 2 of them in order to run more specialists.

    As for the SW, well it's not worth dotmapping until the rest of the coast is exposed. Ideally I would move Burgundian to split the food between more cottage cities, but you probably want to go after it soon before it gets longbows (build some warriors to replace the immortals as city garrisons and you should be able to give your UU a suitable last hurrah.) Also you have more health that happy problems now (and 2 calendar resources still to be hooked up) so getting the pigs quickly is another argument for keeping Burgundian. Or you could resettle near Wang's last city for pigs + clam.

    More builds nitpicking - lighthouse before library in Ghuzz, will allow sea tiles for cash and free the need to clear all that jungle immediately. I would replace the sword in Seoul with a settler. Given that Liz is contained and Pleased and longbowfied you have little need of more military. Focus on expansion sooner rather than later - not a universal tip but really it's the way to go with Darius. I'd say filling in the continent (aside from your unlucky abundance of frigidity) is more important than Lib.
     
  4. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    5,594
    My Liberalism goal tech would be either Nationalism or Printing Press, if I can make it.

    Aesthetics/Literature before Metal Casting. I will consider this, but this might be too much of a diversion from Liberalism, while MC is required.

    Yeah, I think I was too cautious and really need to start expading. I will begin a settler in Seoul for the jungle city and another settler in the capital when it hits size 8 to replace the barbarian city in the southwest. That will give me 9 cities, and when Seoul (military city atm) grows a little, start another settler, with aid from chops.

    About Ecbatana -- maybe I should have chopped a granary. Well, I still have time, and as soon as I have a free worker (or pair of worker), I will start chopping.

    About Ghuzz -- I don't think a lighthouse would have been all that attractive, and while I agree with much of what you said, this is the only part where I disagree. Thanks to barbarians, I have quite a large number of workers and therefore can easily chop the jungle. I would be able to get cash by cottaging over several of the resources and grasslands there and food by sugar plantations
     
  5. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    5,594
    Dotmap II

    This is a revised dotmap that I created after several more in-game analysis. I will be posting all images in spoilers to counteract image-heavy pages.

    Please note that my dotmap is subject to revision. Please, if you have any objections to this dotmap, inform me but be sure to back up your statement with reasons. ;) And also, the city numbers mean the order I will found them next round, which means that city 1 will be founded first, then city 2, 3,4, and if I ever get to it, city 5. That will give me...12 cities.

    The Jungle

    *The jagged line represents the irrigation path necessary to improve the corn*

    Spoiler :


    The Southwest

    Spoiler :


    The Tundra

    Spoiler :


    CITY 1-I chose this site becauase it would make use of some grassland cottages which I would never be able to work if I had founded the city 1 southest of its location, which is what my plan was. Founding it there also makes room for a Moai Statues city (city 3) which can produce my nonexistent navy.

    CITY 2-After I raze the barbarian city, I'll found this and it will be a production city, which is a boon for me as Seoul is basically the only city geared up for production.

    CITY 3-Moai statues city. And it also solidifies the jungle under my control so Elizabeth won't settle an annoying city there.

    CITY 4-Purely for the marble. Seoul is only generating 1 culture per turn and has better things to build than culture buildings so I will need this city. The marble also means I'll likely be researching Literature soon.

    CITY 5-A production and commerce hybrid city, just to fill up the area and to improve a useless desert tile.

    So, what do you think? :D
     
  6. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,503
    Location:
    Sweden
    About Liz & tech trading: You're now isolated with her which means she won't trade many techs. This is true of any leader. You will be able to tell when she's met other civs because she'll be trading most her techs again when she do.
     
  7. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,205
    Location:
    Oslo
    With the exception of Mansa Musa.
     
  8. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,503
    Location:
    Sweden
    That's interesting. I didn't know that, thanks for the heads up. :)
     
  9. timmy827

    timmy827 King

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    658
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA
    Is she willing to trade Mono + Monarchy because Wang knew them before he died? That would be interesting, didn't know dead civs counted in monopoly calculations on the AI's part. Although I think there's something odd about Monarchy, in my game of RBCiv's epic 18 Justinian was willing to trade it to me when it was a monopoly (no, he wasn't friendly or anything, and refused other monopoly techs as normal).
     
  10. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    5,594
    Elizabeth was willing to trade me Monarchy and Monotheism long after Wang had died.

    Maybe, but I have yet to be isolated with him in a game so I can't confirm it.

    Yes, Wang did know Monarchy before he died, AND Monotheism.

    But unfortunately, this is where it gets even more confusing. Wang had CURRENCY before he died and so did Elizabeth, BUT Elizabeth refused to trade Currency once Wang died.

    I wish someone could shed some light on this. :crazyeye:
     
  11. mystyfly

    mystyfly Knight of Cydonia

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,669
    Location:
    CH
    I've already noticed that most AIs are willing to trade certain techs even if you're isolated. I have been gifted monarchy by toku when we were isolated (after wiping out gandhi) :eek:

    (without looking at the save) About the game: You have lots of troops that cost lots of money. Those units are too good to use just on barbs so I say go ahead and attack liz. In exchange of peace she should give you any tech, regardless if monopoly or not. You can backfill the rest of the land later (but before astronomy ;)), probabely there will be some more barb cities to raze (and get money from).
     
  12. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    5,594
    Your Tokugawa game sounds similar to my game as Ramesses II when I was isolated with Tokugawa, and he was willing to trade a few techs (such as MONARCHY!) before we knew anyone else.

    And about my troops, well I only have 1 catapult right now and swords/immortals just don't cut it against longbows. :( A war with Elizabeth is likely going to be held off until Rifles while I consolidate my hold on the rest of the land here.

    Next round might be played tonight, if I have time, or next week if I can't do so.
     
  13. mystyfly

    mystyfly Knight of Cydonia

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,669
    Location:
    CH
    I don't think this is a good decision.
    1) Lizzy doesn't have riflemen, she has redcoats.

    2) you have immortals, so I'd either attack with cuirassiers or cav (though this'll cost you loads of upgrades). Even without upgrading, it fitted your theme (a bit ;)).
     
  14. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    5,594
    Okay, I played the next round, but only up to 835 AD. We were beaten to Liberalism by someone on the other continent (no idea who is on the other land mass and Elizabeth must not know either since she refuses to trade us her techs).

    I will post the update sometime later.

    EDIT! My bad, I was beaten to Liberalism in 820 AD. Is that advanced for an Immortal AI?
     
  15. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,503
    Location:
    Sweden
    Most (maybe all) leaders will still trade some techs, just far fewer than if you were not the only two known civs.
     
  16. mystyfly

    mystyfly Knight of Cydonia

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,669
    Location:
    CH
    From my limited experience I say it is a bit early. I've had games where I could delay lib until 1100AD, but it waries of course. Mostly it depends on the AIs, Gandhi + MM + Willem + Liz with a religious lovefest can make it quite early. We'll see when you meet the other AIs.
     
  17. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    5,594
    Round 6: 595 AD to 835 AD (17 Turns)


    This was mainly a short round as I experienced a setback at the end of the round and am unsure of how to continue.

    First of all, I started off by, as usual, making some adjustments. Following timmy827's advice, I canceled some of my workers from building a farm and instead redirected them to chop a granary in Ecbatana. Other minor adjustments included the switching of Seoul's build from a swordsmen to settler.

    Oh yes, and my research started out with "Paper" as I planned to head for the Liberalism race.

    Once the capital grew to size 8, I also started a settler there, beginning my policy of REXing now.



    Here's a view of the capital. What do you think of it? Is there a way I could make it better?

    The round went on. I cottaged everywhere except in Seoul and P'yongyang. I connected 4 calendar resources (incense, sugar, spices, silk) so I have virtually no unhappiness problems. I was surprised when I received the news that Angkor Wat had been built in a far away land in 610 AD. That was quick.

    Soon after, in 685 AD, Louis Pasteur was born in P'yongyang, bulbing Philosophy.



    Next turn, I finished Paper and began "Education." Generating a Great Scientist would take too long, even with Pacifism, because P'yongyang, my GP farm, didn't have Hinduism in it! :mad: That was a mistake on my part for not realizing this (I assumed Pacifism worked on every city), so I insted decided to research half of Education while having the capital generate the GS.







    (I chopped the settler.)

    Other than my mistake in not spreading Hinduism in P'yongyang, there were other occurences this round. I got visibility in Elizabeth's research. She's researching Banking and I also gave her Meditation for 95 gold.



    And I also founded city #8, which ensured that the jungle area remained mine. I started a granary on the city as soon as the city reached 16 culture due to Caste System's enabling of unlimited artists.



    I also razed this barbarian city...



    ...and on the very last turn of the round, I got another settler right on the city-to-be-created on the tile 2 south of the iron. The settlers will found the city on the first turn of the next round.

    I made another trade with Elizabeth. She was 5 turns away from CS.



    I received a scare when the University of Sankore was built in 805 AD.



    Will you look at that second city?!? It's filled with wonders! I really hope we don't see a Huayna Capac or Louis XIV, as they are the best industrious civs.

    Unfortunately, I received more distressing news. Look at the top of the screen.



    Some AI on the other continent has researched Liberalism last turn, in 820 AD! :cry: This prompted me to end the round as I am unsure of how to proceed. The other continent has not had a single Great General born.

    [To be continued in next post]
     
  18. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    5,594
    [Continued from previous post]


    Domestic:



    Technology (Elizabeth is 3 turns away from Philosophy):



    GNP:



    Power:



    Map (north hasn't really changed)




    So...what to do?

    Points of Interest
    1. I lost the Liberalism race (obviously).
    2. Our capital is 12 turns away from our third GS, but do I want to switch the capital back to growth?
    3. I are stagnanting in GNP, for some reason.
    4. Power is stagnanting as well.
    5. Elizabeth is catching up on us in technology.
    6. Elizabeth still refuses to trade me her technologies.
    7. I mentioned this before, but I'll say it again in case anyone missed-there is a settler on the city#9 site ready for founding next turn.
    8. The other continent is likely peaceful (no GG) and advanced in technology. I'm betting my money that whoever has the city with 7 or 8 wonders also won the liberalism race.


    My questions for you people:


    1. Why is my GNP stagnating? It's been hanging around 150 for much of the round.

    2. What do I do about the capital? It is currently hiring 4 scientists per turn and stagnating at size 8. I'm thinking that since I don't need a GS that fast, I can wait until a hindu missionary is done in Pasargadae and spread Hinduism to P'yongyang and have that city generate future Great Scientists. This means the capital stops hiring scientists and goes back to focusing on growth. It has a happy cap of 11 or 12 and I would like to bring the city population up.

    3. When I do get another Great Scientist (likely from P'yongyang), what technology should I bulb? Or should I build an academy?

    4. Should I keep researching Education? Should I switch and focus on Aesthetics/Literature/Metal Casting to gain the epics and forges and have the third GS bulb the last half of Education? Are there better technologies to research?

    If you can offer answers to the four preceding questons or any general advice that will assist me, that will be greatly appreciated.
     
  19. CivSetä

    CivSetä Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Finland
    Probably there is bunch of builders in another continent, and Lizzy is already trading with them. Maybe you could steal her map to get more detailed information?

    Internet beeline seems only viable strategy. After settling whole continent you should be able to mass enough units to kill Lizzy, and then head for space.

    Don't give up! :)
     
  20. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,578
    Location:
    Netherlands
    -820 AD is very early for lib on immortal
    -Your GNP is hanging because you're not improving your capital anymore running scientists there. A bit of a waste imo since there's no NE and no pacificm bonus there. Particularly with a financial civ and a good capital spot like this i'd go cottages, monarchy (HR), academy and growing as big as possible asap. Your capital could have been generating 150-200 beakers/turn now

    I usually research Lit before CS, it isn't so much about the GL which is nice if you get it. The NE is extremely important,if the capital has grown to size 12-15 you can generate 100+ GPP/turn in combination with pacificm. My first 2 scientists come from 2 scientists in other cities, one for academy (unless the capital is very bad), the other bulbs philo.
    I almost never bulb paper, this tech is too cheap.
     

Share This Page