DMOC's Questions

[DMOC]

I have a few questions about this game which have been nagging me for a while.

1. Is it beneficial to have production in packs of 4 with a forge? I suppose this would depend to what extent the game rounded the production of forges. I remember someone named zombie or something like that post that having production in packs of 4 (4/8/12/16 etc) with a forge was best. Also, does this "packing" thing apply to other game factors, such as commerce with a library, etc.?

2. Are 3+ pop whips useful? I normally do 2 pop whips when possible but there are some cases where I could use 3. Don't worry about whipping wonders -- pretend I'm whipping something normal, like a courthouse. And in that case, do whips for courthouses get beefed up when I have the Organized trait?

3. If I start out the game with a settler roam (say on deity difficulty) and take 7 turns to move to a great spot (normal speed), will barbarians already be roaming by that point, or do they not appear at all and only appear once everyone has a city?


Those are the only questions I have for now. Any more I will ask in later posts.

Thanks to those who can help.

 

[KaytieKat]

Hi

I am not sure about the other questions but I am pretty sure all hammer bonuses whether they result form civics or resources or wonders or traits--like organized boost for couthouses get factored in when whipping. That supposed to be why whipping with the kremilin can be powerful or why whipping workers when your expansive ior settlers when imp is considered more efficent or why the whip/chop thingy with walls when you are protective--especially if you have stone works so well some ppl consider it at best a very unfair exploit and at worst almost as bad as using world builder.

Kaytie

 

[UWHabs]

Yeah, making sure you work in packs of 4 hammers is useful. Hammers are rounded down, so if you have 3 hammers with a forge, you get 3 output, but 4 with a forge gives 5. So if you debate working a 2 food 1 hammer square or a 1 food 2 hammer square, if the extra hammer gets your to that magic number, it's worth it (since you trade 1 food for 2 hammers instead of 1 food for 1 hammer). Same reason why if you're Imperialistic, if you can get to 4 hammers early (ie working a plains hill forest), it's really nice, since that turns into 6 hammers of output, which is a fast settler.

Whipping goes through all your normal hammer modifiers. So, you whip a courthouse for 30 hammers. If you're organized, then each pop of whip counts for 60 hammers. If you also have a forge, then you're whipping for 67 hammers.

As for 3+ pop whips, I don't see a problem. If you're whipping to whip away unhappiness, a 2 pop whip will get you back to your happy cap (ie. if you had 1 unhappy face at pop 7, then a 2 pop whip leaves you down to a happy cap of 5, but now pop 5). A 3 pop whip will leave you with extra room to grow back a little. Mainly, you get whatever you're building faster. If you really need that courthouse, then why not whip for 3 and grow back?

 

[Earthling]

I'll try to help with what I can... the hammer bonus is important - if you have some other multipliers though so you're at x50% it's ok to just be on even hammers. Don't see a problem with 3+ whips - but my experience this is only ever in a conquered city or something desperate... And I was talking before in another thread how this shouldn't be happening late game either - US is much, much better for infrastructure in captured cities than slavery, but I'm sure you know that.

I think barbs, or at least animals, will spawn no matter what. Exploring for that long probably isn't great in BtS (of course I don't know how barbs spawn in something like FfH, where you do see lots of settler exploring ).

Lastly, I'd like to add one question of my own - I think it's a bug that somehow isn't patched in plain BtS (don't know about mods). When you check the F8 screen early in a game (say you've met a neighbor or two) it says that they have something like exactly 1.00% or 2.00% land area, even when they don't. Does anyone know what causes this?

 

[Joshua368]

And as for 3, barbarians may have limitations regarding entering city borders, but I don't think the amount of cities founded has anything to do with them spawning and eating naked settlers!

 

[Soirana]

3. If I start out the game with a settler roam (say on deity difficulty) and take 7 turns to move to a great spot (normal speed), will barbarians already be roaming by that point, or do they not appear at all and only appear once everyone has a city?

Once i tried that. Barbs appear if you do not settle. Further on despite some talks on forum you do not lose game if you lose initial settler.

Actually i did lost, when opened borders and put my scout in friendly territry when clicked end turn to watch AI's play alone.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Further on despite some talks on forum you do not lose game if you lose initial settler.

No Settler Variant

I should go back and revisit that, maybe.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

hammers are "per city"; rest is added up for all cities with decimals and then rounded.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I often whip courthouses as soon as I can.

I also whip the last universities for any amount of population to get oxford started ASAP.

 

[macmert]

for question 2...

I usually limit whips to 3 pops, if I have good food resources, or I am in a rush to build something, even something like library or barracks... on rare occations I whip 4 or 5 pops if the city is big enough and what I build is a wonder...

but of course this is for noble difficulty

 

[Soirana]

No Settler Variant

That a nice idea. I thought Inca Marathon Tiny Pangea on Monarch might be doable.

Will try in spare time.

Edit: Did that

Spoiler :

Well. i opted for above stated setting+high sea.
deleted my settler

Spoiler :

Found victim

Spoiler :

Killed it with low odds [probably hardest part]

Spoiler :

Well, Berlin autorazed, but funniest was yet to come

Spoiler :

I went into WorldBuilder after that

Spoiler :

Not so funny.

 

[Skallagrimson]

I've got no whip pop max limit (so long as the building is important enough, it's a high-food city, and it's not Moai or something where tile work is highly optimal) but my minimum is 2.

 

[Bostock]

Even 1-pop whips are ok if the build is important enough (emergency defense, spamming the first missionaries after switching into OR, etc.).

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Edit: Did that

That was awesome.

 

[Soirana]

You realize that was sort of joke?

I was inca and Mongols won conquest. I would call that strange at best.

 

[Bostock]

It was still awesome.

 

[JammerUno]

Boundica of the inca should have a shot at the no-settler play, it's easier to get to CR3. But really, getting a quecha to pop from a hut would probably be the only chance of doing this succesfully. Either that or don't promote beyond cover until you assault a capital, since two promotions will heal 75% of your damage. A quecha with 8 xp could win two turns in a row, the first with cover, the second with cover + CR2.

On whipping more than 2 pop; sure why not? Some cities have to production and tons of food, so I whip all my infra there. Depending on your happiness, it might be better to grow to size 6 before whipping. If you can establish a cycle that lets you grow 3 pop in the time it takes one whipping unhapipness to go away, that's more effective that whipping 2 each time and having unhappiness some of the time. Especially with foodneutral tiles like riverside cottages nearby, which are worthwile to work for the to-be-whipped people.

 

[kossin]

How about getting a creative capital from a leader that starts with hunting? If the borders pop, the city shouldn't auto-raze.
Zara, Pericles, Sury, Kublai, Catherine sound like good targets.

 

[Soirana]

I know german borders are hard to see, but borders were popped. Capital has 20% cultural defense.

 

[Duckweed]

I have a few questions about this game which have been nagging me for a while.

1. Is it beneficial to have production in packs of 4 with a forge? I suppose this would depend to what extent the game rounded the production of forges. I remember someone named zombie or something like that post that having production in packs of 4 (4/8/12/16 etc) with a forge was best. Also, does this "packing" thing apply to other game factors, such as commerce with a library, etc.?

2. Are 3+ pop whips useful? I normally do 2 pop whips when possible but there are some cases where I could use 3. Don't worry about whipping wonders -- pretend I'm whipping something normal, like a courthouse. And in that case, do whips for courthouses get beefed up when I have the Organized trait?

3. If I start out the game with a settler roam (say on deity difficulty) and take 7 turns to move to a great spot (normal speed), will barbarians already be roaming by that point, or do they not appear at all and only appear once everyone has a city?


Those are the only questions I have for now. Any more I will ask in later posts.

Thanks to those who can help.

1. I don't care whether the hammer is 4x or not, just work on the tile you think is good (I don't care much about citizen micro at this stage). IMO, the more important thing of having forge is the 25% bonus on whipping.

2. If depends on happy resource, even 1 pop whip is OK if you have enough of them.