Do I need a software firewall?

Mise

isle of lucy
Joined
Apr 13, 2004
Messages
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London, UK
Is there any point? I have an antivirus, and a router, and can turn on Windows Firewall if needs be - is there any need for a(nother) software firewall? What would a software firewall prevent that isn't already being prevented?

I don't think I need one, but if you guys have any insights, they'd be much welcome. Anything I'm missing?
 
I don't think a default install of windows has anything unsecured listening on any ports. So blocking them would be pointless since nothing would get through anyway. If you're worried about software that you installed listening then you should probably uninstall it.

Of course even if you did have use for one your router probably has its own firewall which would be much better to use because it will filter anything out as soon as it hits your network so you won't have to install firewalls on all your computers.
 
It depends on the quality of the firewall in your router. If it's a decent firewall, anything that gets through it will definitly bypass a software firewall. If it's like my router's firewall on the other hand(last update released October 2005), you will need a software firewall.

From personal experience I wouldn't trust Windows Firewall. I've had viruses get through that and disable it and my AV & AS software. I've also had problems with Sygate but that was when I was still using IE6 so it may not have been to blame.
 
I did one of those port scanning test things, and they all came up as "stealth", apart from Ping, which I assume my router replied to, rather than my machine(?).

Should I be worried that either my machine or router is responding to pings?
 
Yes. A free software firewall like Zone Alarm is better than Windows firewall, and more updateable than a router firewall. The better routers might be good enough, but why chance it when software s so easy? And you would have a hard time figuring out just how good the router is unless you're a comp expert.
 
If you have a router and a non hostile local network, you don't need a software firewall.

The router doesn't even need a fancy hardware firewall, NAT is protection enough. NAT stands for network address translation and is used to map ports between your outside IP and your local IP. You have to explicitly set it up for each port (as the router can't figure out itself to which local IP connection attempts should be routed) and if you don't, that port is secure.

This is why all your ports show up as "Stealth". It means that attempts to connect to that port are repelled. They are repelled because the router drops them, as it doesn't know what to do with them.

If you really want to beef up your internet security, stop accessing the net with admin rights. Create a very restricted account with no access to any important files and set up all internet programmes to start through it.
 
I'm thinking I'll go without for a few months and see how it goes. Cheers folks.
 
It depends on the quality of the firewall in your router. If it's a decent firewall, anything that gets through it will definitly bypass a software firewall. If it's like my router's firewall on the other hand(last update released October 2005), you will need a software firewall.

From personal experience I wouldn't trust Windows Firewall. I've had viruses get through that and disable it and my AV & AS software. I've also had problems with Sygate but that was when I was still using IE6 so it may not have been to blame.

Well anything that gets admin access to your system can do whatever it wants. Updating a firewall should be unnecessary the basic premises have stayed the same the only thing that changes is the degree of user friendliness.

Firewalls are mostly for keeping out "hackers" and network control they won't stop users from getting viruses.
 
Yes.

If you don't have any other firewalls installed, at least have the Windows Firewall turned on with "Don't Allow Exceptions" checked.

Update Windows with their monthly security patches, run occasional virus checks, and generally surf intelligently (not saying you don't) online and you should be good. But you should always have at least one firewall.
 
Yes.

If you don't have any other firewalls installed, at least have the Windows Firewall turned on with "Don't Allow Exceptions" checked.

Update Windows with their monthly security patches, run occasional virus checks, and generally surf intelligently (not saying you don't) online and you should be good. But you should always have at least one firewall.

Caveat: When you update Windows, NEVER update automatically and do not let "Windows Genuine Advantage" install. Even if all of your software is legit, no good can come of it.
 
apart from Ping, which I assume my router replied to, rather than my machine(?).

Should I be worried that either my machine or router is responding to pings?
No, but it is possible to set up your machine to not do so.

Ping is harmless except in letting people know that your machine exists on the network. I'd recommend not disabling it, since it is a useful diagnostic tool for when you have problems with your network.
 
Ping of death
whistle9qn.gif
 
Ping of death
whistle9qn.gif
Ya see, here's my more "philosophical" reason for not wanting a firewall (and tbh not really wanting virus scanners etc either).

DoS attacks like Ping of Death make your internets run really really slowly. This ocassionally happens to me for no apparent reason anyway (i.e. connection issues or just "cosmic rays", as they say), and when I restart my machine and/or router, it all works fine. If I was faced with a DoS attack, the symptoms would be the same - very slow connection, can't seem to do much on machine, etc; and the cure would be the same - restart router, get new connection/IP/etc.

Alternatively, I can prevent the disease from happening in the first place. I can get a firewall, either sitting physically between me and the internets, or logically between me and the internets, and stop these things. But, in my experience, firewall software is bloated and intrusive. I had ZoneAlarm - that was god awful and uninstalled it within a week. I used Sygate Personal Firewall for a while - that wasn't as bad, but it still stopped me from playing Half Life / CS every time they released an update (cos the HL.exe file changed). And it never seemed to stop an attack (unlike ZoneAlarm, which went off every five minutes!), just ocassionally give "warnings" that I was being pinged.

The point I'm making is that it seems that Firewalls seem to give me more grief than the "attacks" they're supposed to protect against. In other words, prevention, perhaps, isn't better than cure.
 
I use a combination of router, Windows Firewall, AVG antivirus and Spybot S&D "TeaTimer". Other than the occasional need to disable TeaTimer, add exceptions to AVG, or reset the router, (all of these are rare -- most common is resetting the router -- about twice a month) I'm fine. The only spyware I've gotten was one I accidentally installed myself when I was more noobish than I am now.

I used to have a firewall, but it slowed my computer to a crawl so I uninstalled it.
 
I use Zone Alarm and pretty much never get a warning. But I also have a newer router, which may handle nearly all the load of firewall. I'm just not prepared to depend on that.
 
You can disable the constant messages in Zone Alarm in the settings. I only get messages when programs are trying to access the internet/act as a server. It's not too intrusive. What was wrong with the software exactly?

Is there any way to prevent the pinging? I had the same issues on the test site: all clear except for pining.

I sort of feel like running a program like Noscript does more than my firewall. Crazy s- isn't constantly executing itself every time I open up a new page...



Tangent: is there a list of necessary ports out there? I want to disable the unnecessary ones through Windows. I figure that will do something of value?
 
Caveat: When you update Windows, NEVER update automatically and do not let "Windows Genuine Advantage" install. Even if all of your software is legit, no good can come of it.

One problem, now they wised up and won't let you get updates unless you install the Genuine Advantage.

But you are right, never, ever let Windows Automatically update for you.

------------------------------------------

Here's my set up:
The standard Windows firewall.
eTrust anti-virus (it came with my PC, so I might as well use it).
I use Mozilla Firefox almost exclusively.
I also run MalwareBytes Anti-Malware, Ad-Aware SE, and Spybot S&D scans fairly regularly. By regularly, I mean usually once every two weeks. Since I DL'ed MalwareBytes, I don't really use the others as much, unless I think I have problem with my computer.
 
One problem, now they wised up and won't let you get updates unless you install the Genuine Advantage.

But you are right, never, ever let Windows Automatically update for you.

Too bad. I haven't updated in a while, so missed that twist. :rolleyes:
 
My mom set up my computer to auto-update, now I can't remove it (I tried 2-3 times.) I am not too happy about it.

The other day, it updated and didnt like my display adapter. I finally figured out how to get a new driver for it.
 
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