Do the Ottomans need a buff?

[Doctor Doom]

I personally think they do. Their units are great but their UA is kind of lacking, maybe it would be better if they gave them a religion or trade bonus. But that's just my opinion!


What do you guys thinks?



(sorry for beating a dead horse )

 

[northchill]

totally agree, instead of barbair corsairs they should get a bonus like while they conquer extra bonuses sth like that

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

They're a pretty focused domination civ and they're pretty good at it too. One of the best infantry UUs in the game and their zerg navy can rival England on the sea. Ironclads with Prize Ships are pretty nice to have. I don't really think they need much of a buff so I voted no. I think they're a pretty balanced Dom civ. I know that doesn't appeal to everyone but it doesn't necessarily mean they need a buff.

The only things I think they could maybe tweak a little are the Sipahi and the maintenance reduction on naval units. The sipahi has lost a lot if its luster since vanilla with the addition of the pictish warriors and commerce LKs who both upgrade into better lancers with the same ability to pillage. A str bonus or some kind of unique promotion could make it a more attractive unit. I think the maintenance reduction on ships could be bumped up to 50% like Shaka's melee reduction. It'd help with that big barbarian navy you can build before trade routes start making much money.

 

[joncnunn]

Yes, they need a buff, but not in the area OP was referring to. I think instead it should be increasing supply limit to allow more use of the existing naval maintenance reduced cost.

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

Yes, they need a buff, but not in the area OP was referring to. I think instead it should be increasing supply limit to allow more use of the existing naval maintenance reduced cost.

It does kind of force you to go wide doesn't it. I hadn't thought about increasing the supply limit.

 

[Merciorum]

Nope, they don't. They annihilate under the right conditions and have one of the best UUs in the game. Play them on Archipelago/Small Continents and you have the power to destroy your opposition.

Vic- surely a 50% maintenance discount would be a nerf, given how currently they have a 67% discount? As they only pay one third?

 

[Doctor Doom]

I love the ottomans but the only problem I have with them is I roll them all the time on Pangaea and they're pretty much useless until gunpower. but unfortunately that's the problem with naval civs depending on the map they can become pretty lack luster... atleast England has an extra spy and lets not forget the longbows.

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

Nope, they don't. They annihilate under the right conditions and have one of the best UUs in the game. Play them on Archipelago/Small Continents and you have the power to destroy your opposition.

Vic- surely a 50% maintenance discount would be a nerf, given how currently they have a 67% discount? As they only pay one third?

Whoops! I had it backwards, for some reason I thought it was a 1/3 reduction. You're right.

Man... I still run low on cash with them in the early game lol.

But yeah, the Ottomans are one of the better dom civs in the game. Strangle a civ's trade with your navy (useful even on pangea, thank you BNW for making navies useful on all maps!), harry cities and reduce their production with Sipahis and march your vampire infantry on your target city.

Spend the early game on expansion and infrastructure and start your dominance in the Renaissance.

 

[Væringjar]

Ottomans definitely need a buff. Their UA is just useless on pangaea maps. A trade or science bonus would be good since they have Enderun School.

 

[GoStu]

Solid warmongering Civ. Very solid Musketman replacement, moderately obnoxious replacement for the Lancer (would help in Lancers were a better unit though...), and the UA is great for naval dominance. Even on Pangea, there's usually a coastal city or two per civ, just to get Sea trade routes going.

With either Germany or the Ottomans I'll just sell some units if the maintenance cost is getting unreasonable.

 

[cpm4001]

No, the Ottomans are fine as they are, and I'd say they're vastly underrated. The UA was weak prior to GnK/BNW, but now that they can capture any ship, not just barb ones, it's become quite powerful. As for the UUs, Sipahis (despite being lancer replacements) are great, while Janissaries are almost insanely powerful.

 

[Viregel]

The fact is, the Ottomans are fine, but I just can't bring myself to play them. If their UA was slightly more early-game based, then it would be fine. Furthermore, the Ottoman's only focus is warmongering; other warmongers normally have a focus in at least one other area. I'm not quite sure what I'd change the components to, but there was a "Palace Schools" idea that I liked, which gave +1 of each yield in the capital for every city in the empire. This could help with warmongering in the sense that your domestic issues would be fine.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

I actually think they are not underpowered, but I still am not happy as they are.
Well my view is upon that all the uniques together emphasize only on one aspect of the ottoman empire: its military strength. But the ottoman empire was not a warmongering empire like the Mongol empire and had other specialities. And especially if they put Suleiman the magnificent in as the leader it is a weird situation all together if the Ottomans rely only on military power. Because historians introduced the term "Pax Ottomana" which was corresponding to the economic and social stability attained in the conquered provinces of the Ottoman Empire during the 16th and 17th century. Approximatly a quarter of this time period Suleiman had the reign for 46 years.
Therefore at least one of the uniques should be something different from military. The most obvious change would be the UA. I agree that something related to Enderun (palace) schools or sufi orders would fit better.
I will especially enlight the part for sufi orders a bit more. The sufi orders had a large contribution to the rise of ottoman empire. The Bektasi, Mevlevi and Naksibandi to name only some. They were involved at different levels of the social community. And even the Sultans were followers of one of the sufi orders. Especially early sultans had an important person from sufi orders nearby. To name some:

• Osman - Seyh Edebali
• Murad II - Haci Bayrami Veli
• Mehmet II - Aksemseddin

Well I hope my point is clear. There are better aspects from which the ottoman UA could be made of.

If I have to make an alternative UA suggestion than it would be something like this: "Sufi orders" a certain percent of the generated faith is converted to culture/science. Of course it should not be overpowered.

 

[bbbt]

I vote fine. They're entirely domination focused, yeah, but their UA is quite good for water maps (they can dominate the seas from the beginning), and their UU is good for land.

Granted, they're not as good for domination as say England on a water map or Shaka on a land map, but that's fine.

I judge a civilization on how I'd feel playing them on a 'random' map, and Ottomans are actually fine in that regard.

 

[Vitruvius]

I think there needs to be civs that are solely focused on one aspect of the game and civs that are jack of all trades. It adds variety to the game. There are ppl out there who loves to warmonger and Ottoman, England, Mongols etc all introduce different and fun ways to warmonger. If you want a more balanced water civ, play Carthage.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[victorpras]

I don't think the ottomans are underpowered; they are just very "game-settings dependant". If you play them in Pangaea map, of course they are gonna suck. But then, even Venice/Greece/Austria will be kinda ******ed if you play with 0 city states.

 

[PrimoXanthous]

I don't think The ottomans need a buff, they're fine. Early naval dominance and the undying Musketman replacement is one of the best and powerfull Infantry in the game.
The one who really needs a buff is Mongolia, its UA seems useless with BNW.

 

[Vitruvius]

I would argue against saying mongolia UA is useless. You dont need it to conquer city states. Throughout the game you are gonna have city states dow u because their allies are fighing with you and this ability keeps you safe in case some city state at the back of your land is threatening one of your cities while your armies are away. I have had cities states almost taking my city forcing me to call off a promising military campagn against their ally. Could really help on deity where CSs are pretty strong.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[direblade99]

I feel it's less they need a buff, more a change. The Ottoman empire was incredibly significant and powerful economically and culturally when at its peak, and although it's easy to see why their military is an easy design concept and idea to implement (they were the guys who conquered Constantinople after all) I feel that some bonus to religion or to culture or gold would be nice. As it is there is just no incentive to really play them, at least for me

 

[Adjuvant]

Jannissaries are disproportionately powerful if used well, so much so that everything else is like a bonus secondary. Ottomans don't need more perks.