Do you like any AI leader?

[Leyrann]

Gilgamesh is always a homie, he's the only one you can make an ally by, like, actually being a loyal friend instead of fulfilling some arbitrary game requirements...

I like Victoria too, she is nice to have around and hits me up a lot, and always founds nice cities for me to take over

Catherine is quite annoying. Telling me how much she dislikes me, all the time, even before I have any spies...

Pericles is also really annoying, disliking me if I ever use any of my envoys at all...

Gorgo, Trajan and Harald are usually quite aggressive but I feel once I prove my worth militarily they will respect me.

If you send delegations/embassies to everyone you meet it's really easy to get Catherine to like you, at least until you can build spies.

 

[agonistes]

And yet I can be dof with someone for 290 turns, 100% positives, and 1 turn without dof and they dow on me.

I promise you there are all kinds of unseen modifiers. Those r the ones I care I want to know about. 20 turns from wonder completion 2 random civs dow on u or something like that.

 

[PhilBowles]

Can't comment on this as the leaders have no discernably separate personalities as far as I can tell. While I've started noticing different levels of friendliness from civs post- the last patch, I haven't played enough different games to know whether this reflects consistent differences between them or whether it's essentially randomly generated.

I also haven't noticed any differences in such things as settlement behaviour beyond those imposed by map position (i.e. the civs that don't expand well are in unfavourable positions).

 

[Victoria]

And yet I can be dof with someone for 290 turns, 100% positives, and 1 turn without dof and they dow on me.

I promise you there are all kinds of unseen modifiers. Those r the ones I care I want to know about. 20 turns from wonder completion 2 random civs dow on u or something like that.

+290 turns sounds like you are now probably beating them. The joint thing is just probably them playing together to be mates and maybe it gives them enough joint strength to take your army on... All supposition ofc but it happend quite often. As I have been playing violently lately and have a large army I get a lot less DOW so am pretty sire its like in civ 5 where the stronger you are the less likely for a DOW. A joint DOW is a way around a surprise war as it is immediate and counts as a formal.

On the hidden modifiers I have not seem much that makes me think so apart from some small difference in warmonger amd different goverments. There is the computer percieved view of how you feel about them that may be taken into account.

 

[Depravo]

I’ll tell you one thing: when Mvemba does his little finger-waving act, I want to put my fist through my monitor. It’s even more infuriating to me than when Gilgamesh says “You mad, bro.”

This. Between that and squatting all the good GPs, I always try to squish him at the first opportunity.

Pericles = dick
Peter = 50/50 depending how much stress I put on culture
Hojo = fair
Qin Shi Huang = not started near him yet
Pedro = usually OK
Harald = sound, plus building enough of a fleet to satisfy his agenda isn't usually that hard
John Curtin = usually OK

 

[agonistes]

+290 turns sounds like you are now probably beating them. The joint thing is just probably them playing together to be mates and maybe it gives them enough joint strength to take your army on... All supposition ofc but it happend quite often. As I have been playing violently lately and have a large army I get a lot less DOW so am pretty sire its like in civ 5 where the stronger you are the less likely for a DOW. A joint DOW is a way around a surprise war as it is immediate and counts as a formal.

On the hidden modifiers I have not seem much that makes me think so apart from some small difference in warmonger amd different goverments. There is the computer percieved view of how you feel about them that may be taken into account.

Well... even sober, I'm still certain that you will be dowed on given certain hidden parameters (and probably a % modifier) regardless of relationship and strength.

Settling where an ai wanted to settle
Blocking an ai settler for a long enough period
Expanding too rapidly
Refusing DoF for long enough
Nearing wonder completion
Rapid increase in your military strength
Frustrating ai attempts to spread religion
Having a number of undefended/poorly defended cities

I think all of those cause civs to roll the dice on whether or not to dow. As I said, I can have a DoF with no penalties for extended periods, and then a civ will just DoW out of the blue. Well, I say out of the blue, but 900 hours in I've gotten pretty good at predicting when they will come. But I also suspect there is a base +/- that changes per start.

 

[Victoria]

Agreed

 

[nzcamel]

I like how the agendas work. I think the mix of known and unknown/changing is great for game replayability and immersion (just wish all leaders had an equal chance of getting all secret agendas).
I don't even mind the Idealogue agenda that much, as having one nutbar leader is immersive too

But it is frustrating that at some point everything looks like it goes out the window to change things up. It doesn't matter how well you've built a relationship over centuries, they'll still dow over something superficial.

That borders broken promise! I'm going to start ignoring it (rather than making a promise) if I think it's likely my troops are going to come back the same way they went within x number of turns!

 

[agonistes]

That's the standard suggestion -ignore it.

For the sake of immersion, I only ignore it if the request is coming from a civ that's been a pita during the current age.

It means I take some unfortunate diplo hits... but that seems realistic.

 

[Victoria]

The promise is weird anyway because it is a 30 turn promise where you get -3 for 30 turns then it degrades and then at that point the +4 keeping a promise comes in and starts degrading immediately. Its still in the positive at the end of it so keeping a promise is something that only starts paying off over 40 turns.
I played a few days ago where I could see having Kongo as an ally might work in about 50 turns so I intentionally went up to his borders which annoyed him in the short term to the point where he DOW'd me but sure enough... 40 turns later i had enough science and with the extra bonuses which all help I got to be his ally.
As it happened that was a true 3 way alliance between Germany Kongo and myself which because of allied with an ally and friend with a friend we managed to keep through the game.

Important to point out true friends do not DOW... sounds like a tee shirt

I was playing with the border thing last night... I can have 3 troops 1 away from their border and they do not get upset, it seems to be only on their border, even 1 of those 3 but if I just have 1 on the border and nothing else nearby, fine... so there is some points system going on there.

Something like 7 points is enough and on the border counts as 3 points each, 1 away 2 points each and 3 away 1 point each.... I really dunno,
Has anyone sussed this properly?

 

[Kimiimaro]

Yes, I like Catherine de' Medici, leader of France. Her agenda is very easy to satisfy, and we are always very good friends.

 

[Victoria]

Hmm, and another thing... I have been considering the possibility that the AI considers your official Ai view of them like any other AI and I do believe there is merit in this consideration.

Playing as England I find that civs on my own continent tend to be more friendly and offer peace deals more so they may be seeing my colonial agenda in a positive way. It is possible to track this turn by turn in excel using a filter on the diplomacymodifiers.csv in the logs directory... The opposition column is filtered to 0 (you) and you need to find their civ number but its not hard to work out

 

[nzcamel]

The promise is weird anyway because it is a 30 turn promise where you get -3 for 30 turns then it degrades and then at that point the +4 keeping a promise comes in and starts degrading immediately. Its still in the positive at the end of it so keeping a promise is something that only starts paying off over 40 turns.
I played a few days ago where I could see having Kongo as an ally might work in about 50 turns so I intentionally went up to his borders which annoyed him in the short term to the point where he DOW'd me but sure enough... 40 turns later i had enough science and with the extra bonuses which all help I got to be his ally.
As it happened that was a true 3 way alliance between Germany Kongo and myself which because of allied with an ally and friend with a friend we managed to keep through the game.

Important to point out true friends do not DOW... sounds like a tee shirt

I was playing with the border thing last night... I can have 3 troops 1 away from their border and they do not get upset, it seems to be only on their border, even 1 of those 3 but if I just have 1 on the border and nothing else nearby, fine... so there is some points system going on there.

Something like 7 points is enough and on the border counts as 3 points each, 1 away 2 points each and 3 away 1 point each.... I really dunno,
Has anyone sussed this properly?

If I want to keep a civ happy (which I do with most of them, most of the time) I'll keep my troops away from their borders. It's just when there's a tight corridor, and I'm passing by to have a crack at someone else - the promise is made on the way there and then broken on the return journey!
What happens again when we ignore that request to clarify our position?

 

[Tyroq]

I find the AI leaders tend to respect you more when you are winning than when you are way behind. You'd think you'd get sympathy from them for being such a little threat, but no they just despise you. In general, as Leyrann said above, I find Catherine de Medici usually likes me in most of my games with her. Probably because I always spam envoys/embassies whenever I can. I usually also get along with Peter as long as I can stay ahead of him in tech, which if I'm not pouring resources into a Religion is usually easy to do on sub-Emperor difficulty levels. Teddy Roosevelt tends to like me as well because I don't go around wrecking the environment. I only chop forests when I'm trying to push out a wonder, and I like to make national parks when they're available. And of course, when I played as Gilgamesh and rocked the world in science and general expansion I found Trajan and others were just piling on the praise for me. It really helps if you can get an early lead through something like an Ancient era rush. Other civs tend to love you more when you are big and impressive.

 

[Archon_Wing]

I've always had good vibes with Egypt; either playing with or against them so Cleopatra is easy to get along with but this depends on how things spawned. Victoria and Gandhi tend to be good allies, and Gilgamesh is pretty solid after he stops screaming about different governments. Qin is alright because I don't really compete with him.

Everyone else is a terrible, terrible, person and gets killed if they look at me the wrong way.

 

[Victoria]

That tells me you play peacefully as Trajan and Gorgo are not on your list

No teddy?

Most civs have only a -6 agenda value which can be wiped out by denouncing a common enemy

 

[Leyrann]

I like Cleopatra, but she seems to have a bias for Paranoid, which makes her a real pain to deal with because her agenda wants you to have a big army while her hidden agenda wants you to have a small army.

 

[Victoria]

I like Cleopatra, but she seems to have a bias for Paranoid, which makes her a real pain to deal with because her agenda wants you to have a big army while her hidden agenda wants you to have a small army.

It just means they cancel each other out but you have to put up with her incessant chatter.

 

[Leyrann]

It just means they cancel each other out but you have to put up with her incessant chatter.

I feel like she always ends up disliking me for it though.

On the other hand, maybe I just haven't watched enough. I haven't played the game a whole lot recently, while it's also recently that I've really started working on diplomacy.

Which reminds me that I really should continue the game of the month... Bye.

 

[Archon_Wing]

That tells me you play peacefully as Trajan and Gorgo are not on your list

No teddy?

Most civs have only a -6 agenda value which can be wiped out by denouncing a common enemy

Play mostly random leaders atm. Currently I prefer Gorgo and poking at people to declare war so i farm them for culture.

Teddy has been pretty bad. Has declared war multiple times after being friends despite me having the biggest military and goes back to such after being beat up.

Usually happens when I settle too close. He tells me to not, I agree, and then shortly after wars even though I haven't even made new cities.