Do you support your countries troops, even in a unjustified war?

[Gogf]

EDIT: Nevermind.

 

[GenMarshall]

When you say I am insane, yes you do insult me.

Did I called you insane? No. I only stated in my opinion that your ideas and views are insane. I however did not called you insane directly. If you think that when I call your opinions insane and in turn take offense to that, you should relay not take your opinions so seriously. Honestly, take a chill pill man

My point is that you can convey your opinion as an adult and should do so without petty labels or name calling. Thats my point.

Yeah Yeah, whatever.

So? Thats what they are trained and paid to do. Why not let them do their job?

They are getting killed in the process and comming home in body bags. I dont want them to do there jobs in harm's way in this unjustified war. I rather see them home safe and sound. Not comming home in a body bag.

Grab a crayon. Find Bhagdad on a map. Draw a big circle around it. That is where the majority of insurgent activity is.

Such hypocracy talking to a 20 something year old like if I am a child. Pfft. Again, youre just simply ignoring my point that this is a borderless war and denying that it is a borderless war.

Actually my hope was that they would retain the Senate, instead of losing it by 1 seat.

Kind of puts the damper on your Republican Majority victory .

Thats because you dont know history nor care about it. Example: Even Reagan lost congressional seats in his lame duck year. So did Clinton. Thus it was a given that the Republicans would lose seats this last election, what was unknown was how many. If you want to learn something go find out what happens in lame duck years.

Now who's casting insults. I do know history and I do care about it. Dont talk down to me like if I am some mindless liberal cause it aint happening.

Ah..but that mans 'one issue' was anti-war was it not? Why yes it was. So, if the voters were so anti-war as you say...why didnt Lamont win?

You just love thoes "" smilies, dont cha? Thank you for conceding in that argument BTW

A single opinion from a single source is not a good way to ascertain what the entire demograph thinks. Example: You dont vote - should I assume that all americans dont vote?

Deny it all you want, but it is a good source to guage how a certan demograph thinks.

If you dont want to win, then you are unpatriotic since your desire is to see the USA fail in its mission. Thats the very definition of someone being unpatriotic.

You are so wrong on the use of an arbitrary term. It seems by your logic, anyone who even opposes the war is slaped to be unpatriotic. You wonder why I dont respect nor agree with the Neo-Conservatives. I have to say you are quite wrong in calling me "unpatriotic". I am patriotic, but I strongly oppose this unjust war and I do want to see our troops home ASAP.

Since you have dodged my question, "What is the mission and goals of the USA?"

Sorry, Ziggy, but a patriot is not someone who wants his country to fail. No matter how you try to dress that up, its simply not going to fly.

Calling someone who does not support the war and wants an immediate withdrawal from Iraq unpatriotic because the individual believes that the mission and goals there are unrealistic to reach. No matter how you try to sloppily dress it up in some neo-conservative arbitrary definition, its not going to fly with the rest of the people.

 

[White Elk]

The whole notion of supporting the troops is such a sick manipulative joke it makes me want to vomit. How exactly do people who “support the troops” actually support them in a substantive manner.

You and others who feel the same must have a very short memory/understanding of how deeply the Vietnam War affected our country! Men returning from Vietnam were civilly abused by their compatriots. These men suffered through hell in the name of their country and then came home to be ostracized by the very people they had thought they were serving. They went to hell and back for Us and suffered through c'rap that we can hardly hope to understand. Then after surviving their tours they come home seeking safety and reintegration into our society. But instead of comfort and compassion to help heal their wounds; they instead faced hositility and prejudice. They were openly rejected by the society that they had given Everything for. These men suffered horrors for us and they needed our help in 'coming back' to our world. But we abandonded them all. This had significant impact on them as individuals, and on our society as a whole. Even our military structure suffered as a result of this civil backlash. This is what we seek to avoid today.

When I say I don't support the war but I support the Troops.. I am saying that, when they take life under direction from their government, they are not held accountable for the moral and legal implications of lawfull combat. I am saying that I understand that the fog of war is thick, particularly in Iraq, and so friendly fire incidents and accidental civilian deaths are not for the individual to bear. I accept that horrors of war occur, and I understand that our soldiers have seen friends and foe die in horrible ways. I understand that they have suffered the loss of sight and limbs to serve my country as they were called to. I honor their sacrifice and I can say in one breath that "I Support Our Toops!" and "Impeach the Commander in Chief!"


Something regarding Vietnam that relates...

Spoiler :

My Father served three tours in Vietnam (only two tours were 'legal'). He joined the United States Marine Corps straight out of high school. As a mountain breed kid who has just gained his freedom from public school, he had other objectives in mind other than fighting a war in some foreign nations jungle. But his country called and so he answered. During his tours he faced alot of things he will not talk about. But he does share a few experiances such as witnessing a couple young children bringing a basket of fruit to gift some US soldiers. As the men reached for the basket, the bomb exploded, wounding the men and killing both the children. He also witnessed a driver of an APC veer off the road and intentionaly runover a women and infant and then drive on. He faced other horrors and other men faced much worse. My father worked in avionics and was responsible for keeping F-4 Phantoms in flight. He experianced plenty of combat as he defended his forward air stations. But he was not Infantry and he did not engage in any offensive action. After my Fathers final tour in Vietnam he was flying home and was, as you can imagine, very happy to be coming home and seeing pine trees instead of jungle and friendly faces instead of potential enemy. But on that flight home he was spit on by a young women and called a baby killer. He says he nearly killed her for his insane rage at that. The c'rap he witnessed and the s'hit he went through was fresh in his mind. He went through hell for her et al and he was still trying to figure it all out. That war fracked with the minds of those who fought it, and when they came home their minds were fracked with even more by their own people! Famalies were torn apart by the difficulties our soldiers faced. Some survivors of Vietnam that I know still say that they wished they'd been killed there. Many tell me that things would not have been near so bad if only their people would have welcomed them home and helped them to reintergrate into our society.

This war in Iraq is similar to Vietnam in notable ways. I can only imagine how difficult their experiance is. Not knowing freind from foe. Not having an exposed enemy to engage. Fighting the enemy in civilian quarters etc.. They have some intense things they have to 'deal with' as they come out of combat and return home. They need our support and acceptance. They have enough to deal with without feeling alienated from their own people. They already feel alienated since they are in a foreign world and in harms way. They need to be welcomed Home with open arms. They need help while they come down from the reality of combat. They need us to support them in every way that we can!

Nowadays our fighting men and women are digitally connected to us. They are aware, minute to minute what is happening back home. This thread could very well be read by someone in active service in Iraq right now. They have enough to deal with without having to deal with how their people will react to them once they come home. They are all aware of just how unpopular this war is. So we need to tell them that we support them regardless of how we feel about our administration. They know that the majority of Americans are against this war. But they also know that they their fellow Americans will welcome them home with open arms. This is very very important to them. So frack yeah I will shout out at the top of my lungs that I support Our Troops!!!

 

[capslock]

Nice post white elk. I brought up this point pages ago, only to be ignored. Hopefully it will get some attention now.

Unfortunately, I don't agree with you about the war, but thats beside the point here.

 

[White Elk]

Thanks capslock.
It is nice to see affirmation that although we may disagree on the morality/legality
of the Iraq War.. people from both sides of this fence can still Support Our Troops!

 

[Mark1031]

You and others who feel the same must have a very short memory/understanding of how deeply the Vietnam War affected our country! Men returning from Vietnam were civilly abused by their compatriots. These men suffered through hell in the name of their country and then came home to be ostracized by the very people they had thought they were serving. They went to hell and back for Us and suffered through c'rap that we can hardly hope to understand. Then after surviving their tours they come home seeking safety and reintegration into our society. But instead of comfort and compassion to help heal their wounds; they instead faced hositility and prejudice. They were openly rejected by the society that they had given Everything for. These men suffered horrors for us and they needed our help in 'coming back' to our world. But we abandonded them all. This had significant impact on them as individuals, and on our society as a whole. Even our military structure suffered as a result of this civil backlash. This is what we seek to avoid today.

When I say I don't support the war but I support the Troops.. I am saying that, when they take life under direction from their government, they are not held accountable for the moral and legal implications of lawfull combat. I am saying that I understand that the fog of war is thick, particularly in Iraq, and so friendly fire incidents and accidental civilian deaths are not for the individual to bear. I accept that horrors of war occur, and I understand that our soldiers have seen friends and foe die in horrible ways. I understand that they have suffered the loss of sight and limbs to serve my country as they were called to. I honor their sacrifice and I can say in one breath that "I Support Our Toops!" and "Impeach the Commander in Chief!"


This war in Iraq is similar to Vietnam in notable ways. I can only imagine how difficult their experiance is. Not knowing freind from foe. Not having an exposed enemy to engage. Fighting the enemy in civilian quarters etc.. They have some intense things they have to 'deal with' as they come out of combat and return home. They need our support and acceptance. They have enough to deal with without feeling alienated from their own people. They already feel alienated since they are in a foreign world and in harms way. They need to be welcomed Home with open arms. They need help while they come down from the reality of combat. They need us to support them in every way that we can!

Nowadays our fighting men and women are digitally connected to us. They are aware, minute to minute what is happening back home. This thread could very well be read by someone in active service in Iraq right now. They have enough to deal with without having to deal with how their people will react to them once they come home. They are all aware of just how unpopular this war is. So we need to tell them that we support them regardless of how we feel about our administration. They know that the majority of Americans are against this war. But they also know that they their fellow Americans will welcome them home with open arms. This is very very important to them. So frack yeah I will shout out at the top of my lungs that I support Our Troops!!!

I do not disagree with anything you say. My point is and what sickens me about the whole support the troops line is that it is so disingenious. The people who shout it the loudest are not the ones that are pushing for more vet benifits, more psyc counseling, how about a free ride to college, how about more death benifits for the widows of those who didn;t make it. How about we all pay more taxes for this. How about we at least have a check off on our tax returns for this. Talk is cheap. The Vietman problem was not primairly the few wackos who spit on them it was the lack of psyc and reintegration support from the government. Some are going to be physically or psychologically scarred for life. How are we going to provide for them and how are we going to pay for it. A medal and a pat on the back and a parade are not enough but that is all I see is required from the support our troops crowd. That and continuing to support keeping them indefinately in the middle of a civil war with the notion that there is something to win.

I am unaware of any significant blame the troops group in the US. Can anyone name one person that does not "support the troops" as opposed to people who do not support the mission.

 

[MobBoss]

They are getting killed in the process and comming home in body bags. I dont want them to do there jobs in harm's way in this unjustified war. I rather see them home safe and sound. Not comming home in a body bag.

Is there job to be here at home safe and sound? No. Coming home in body bags is part of the risk they take to do their job. They know the risks of it far, far better than you do.

Such hypocracy talking to a 20 something year old like if I am a child. Pfft. Again, youre just simply ignoring my point that this is a borderless war and denying that it is a borderless war.

You ignore my point that pretty much all the violence happens within the border of Baghdad. Its a city. With borders.

Kind of puts the damper on your Republican Majority victory .

/shrug. What goes around comes around. I have faith in the dems that they will eventually screw it up and the pendulum will shift back over.

Now who's casting insults. I do know history and I do care about it. Dont talk down to me like if I am some mindless liberal cause it aint happening.

It just did.

You just love thoes "" smilies, dont cha? Thank you for conceding in that argument BTW

Nice dodge. I notice you didnt answer the Lamont/Lieberman question and instead linked to the silly wiki site. Was my question too tough for you?

Deny it all you want, but it is a good source to guage how a certan demograph thinks.

No, its not. A 1 person opinion is about the WORST way to gauge how a certain demograph thinks.

You are so wrong on the use of an arbitrary term. It seems by your logic, anyone who even opposes the war is slaped to be unpatriotic.

No. I think people who want and desire for us to fail, like you said directly, are unpatriotic. Dont confuse the two now. Opposing the war is one thing - actively stating that you want the USA to fail in its mission another.

You wonder why I dont respect nor agree with the Neo-Conservatives. I have to say you are quite wrong in calling me "unpatriotic". I am patriotic, but I strongly oppose this unjust war and I do want to see our troops home ASAP.

Sorry, but I am calling bullcrap on that. A person who wishes his country to fail in a mission in which it is engaged during wartime is DIRECTLY unpatriotic. Again, lets not confuse the issue. You said far more than simply just not agreeing with the war - you said you want us to fail. It was your choice of words...not mine. Thats precisely why I asked you a direct question.

Since you have dodged my question, "What is the mission and goals of the USA?"

To provide security and stablization forces in Iraq while training the Iraqi military and police to take over the job of securing the nation. The Iraqi government wants us doing this job and have repeatedly asked us to not unilaterally withdraw. Thats the current mission. Stabilize. Train. Assist the Iraqi Army.

Calling someone who does not support the war and wants an immediate withdrawal from Iraq unpatriotic because the individual believes that the mission and goals there are unrealistic to reach.

Excuse me...but thats not what you said. You said and I quote "In response to your direct question: No, I don't want to win nor achieve our (non existant) goals in Iraq." Thats saying that even if you thought we had goals, and they were attainable, that you dont want the USA to achieve them. That you want us to LOSE. You know...the opposite of WIN. That is directly un-patriotic.

No matter how you try to sloppily dress it up in some neo-conservative arbitrary definition, its not going to fly with the rest of the people.

Your words. Not mine. No slop needed - they were already dirty enough.

 

[MobBoss]

This is very very important to them. So frack yeah I will shout out at the top of my lungs that I support Our Troops!!!

Sorry, but a guy who says he wants to see my commander in chief hang in a noose is not supporting me, nor my mission. All you offer is really hollow words. Words are cheap. Thats why they are called lip service.

As an American soldier, I tell you right now, if your idea of supporting me is saying such things about hanging our president, then I have no desire or need for your style of support. I would rather you simply be silent on the matter.

 

[White Elk]

@ Mark1031...
I was not born until late summer of 1969 so I did not personally experiance with an aware mind how people treated our Vietnam Veterans. Hehe but as a nearly two year old child I did attend an anti-anti war protest (in support of the troops but nuetral to the war) organized by my Grandfather while my Father was in Vietnam and my Mother held me in her arms. LoL but that is like saying that I am so smart cuz I stayed in a Holiday Express(?) last night (sarcism based on a silly advertising campaign).

But from everything I have read later, and from all the people I have discussed this with who where there (and I have spoken to Many).... clearly the Amercian people treated the Vietnam Veterans like dog sh'it. It was not the actions of a "few wackos" as you have said. It was far more predominant than that. It was a rampant phenomena within our society to bash and discriminate against our vets. They were like our black sheep/our lepers. This is real and documented. This came from the people and not the government. Just like my Grandfather understood, we must support the troops despite our political concerns. It is up to us as citizens to support our soldiers. To treat them with due respect and at least treat them as we'd treat anyother American. It all starts with us and they are our people. They suffer in our service and we owe them more than you may know. The government does what it does and it does what it does very inefficiently! But we can act in the here and now simply by treating them like we treat everyone else. This did not happen after Vietnam and this is the context from which this "Support our Troops' has emerged.

When the USS Lincoln came home to my local port last year.... I saw two sailors in uniform from that ship in line at the Kings Buffet that I was dining in. As a nod to their service to my country I bought their dinners and they were noticeably gratefull. Little things like this go a loooong way.

 

[White Elk]

@ MobBoss...

I wasn't going to respond to your posts in reply to mine. I have a tendancy to just outright leave discussions where people like you play rather than earnestly debate. Whats the use in discussing important topics with people who appear to just be trying to 'win' an arguement or playing at debate. That is how I think you have been responding to my posts. Like its just play and not serious discussion/debate.

And your last post to my post I saw as a big joke. One of us is a fool. I don't see how my thoughts of this presidents sentance for crimes that I think he commited has any relevance to my post which is soley about supporting the troops. You bring up one single element of a prior post and you use that to counter a post that has absolutely nothing to do with it? Are you dumb or do you just play here?

I think you play at this. I dont think your real.
But it is late. I will pwn you tomorrow.

 

[White Elk]

Before I hit the rack I want to say one more thing about supporting our troops. In Everett Washington when the USS Abraham Lincoln came home, the city of Everett was full of Welcome Home signs. Marquee boards that usually display the days special, instead said "Welcome Home". This went on for weeks and some banners stayed up far longer. I've seen news and documentary footage that showed me that this is happening all over our country. This is one aspect of what it means to support our troops.

Imagine them coming home from an alien enviroment and being under threat of death every second of the day. Even at sleep under barricade they were under threat of attack. Think about their daily life while in the combat zone. Think about what they face. Then you will understand some of what Suppport Our Troops is all about. They are very glad to come home and just seeing grass is a site for them to behold. Believe me just the sight of green grass after a year of foreign desert is site for sore eyes. They so look forward to coming home to safety, family and normalcy. Yet they have thoughts of trepidation as they near home because they know how unpopular this war is and they rememebr/understand how the Vietnam Veterans were recieved. But they step off their boat and greet their famalies and as they make their way home they are assuaged with signs of support all the way home. Think of how that sets them at ease. Think of how they appreciate our signs of appreciation for their service. Think about how that helps them deal with the realities of war. Think about how much good even a bunch of Welcome Home signs does for them! If you can undestand any of this then you will understand what it is to Support Our Troops.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

Did they kill their own countrymen? If so, then they were traitors.

Well, both sides in Italy (the army and the resistance) were killing other Italians - does that make both sets traitors ? Is your view that the German Army officers who tried to assassinate Hitler were traitors ? I see them as patriots, who risked their lives to try to save their country further suffering.

Ah...is your definition of a patriot someone who puts the welfare of other countries above his own countries? I would disagree with that definition.

No, it isn't. And you know fine well that wasn't what I was saying. But I can see it's easier for you to reply to a wild misinterpretation of what someone else said, than to try for a reasoned discussion.

Your view of patriotism as put forward in this thread appears to allow for no consideration of other peoples, nor, as a consequence, of ensuring that you have a country worthy of your belief in it.

My patriotism doesnt revolve around what you think of me. So its all good.

Good soundbite. Tank Guy loves it. Unfortunately, I didn't say what I thought of you, I was suggesting that the view of a patriot you are proposing in this thread is a very narrow one - one which considers only the people in the country (and then, as a homogeneous mass) and cares not at all for other peoples, their view of your country, and their future behaviour towards it. It's a very black and white, Sergeant Rock comic book view of the world.

I prefer Carl Schurz's view:

The Senator from Wisconsin cannot frighten me by exclaiming, “My country, right or wrong.” In one sense I say so too. My country; and my country is the great American Republic. My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.

Frankly, on that basis, I see CivGeneral as more of a patriot than you.

--o--​

As a final contribution to this thread, I'd like to emphasise how irritated I am by your intentional attempt to twist my post, from a view that one can be a patriot and still show concern for other countries' peoples, into a suggestion that I believe a patriot cares more for other peoples than his own. If you behave like this generally (and I believe you do, from spectating on other threads), then there is simply no point trying to have a discussion with you.

 

[MobBoss]

@ MobBoss...

I wasn't going to respond to your posts in reply to mine. I have a tendancy to just outright leave discussions where people like you play rather than earnestly debate.

Sorry, I am not playing. I was deadly serious in what I said.

Whats the use in discussing important topics with people who appear to just be trying to 'win' an arguement or playing at debate. That is how I think you have been responding to my posts. Like its just play and not serious discussion/debate.

Not trying to 'win' or 'lose' this arguement. I gave you my direct opinion on your comments. Dont like them? /oh well. Again. Not playing.

And your last post to my post I saw as a big joke. One of us is a fool.

Why would you consider a reply by a current active duty soldier to your comments as a joke? If you think its a joke, then I think I know which of us is a fool.

I don't see how my thoughts of this presidents sentance for crimes that I think he commited has any relevance to my post which is soley about supporting the troops.

One, you directly forget that this President is widely respected among the military. He is our leader regardless of what you may think, feel or decide.

You bring up one single element of a prior post and you use that to counter a post that has absolutely nothing to do with it? Are you dumb or do you just play here?

Again, not playing. Apparently giving you an opinion that hits home enough to cause you to accuse me of playing instead of recognizing the validity of what I said.

I think you play at this. I dont think your real.

I guess thats your only real counter to a real soldier who thinks your 'support' stinks.

I live in the Pacific Northwest...you want to arrange a meeting? I would be more than happy to. I will even show up in uniform.

 

[capslock]

Sorry, but a guy who says he wants to see my commander in chief hang in a noose is not supporting me, nor my mission. All you offer is really hollow words. Words are cheap. Thats why they are called lip service.

As an American soldier, I tell you right now, if your idea of supporting me is saying such things about hanging our president, then I have no desire or need for your style of support. I would rather you simply be silent on the matter.

His negativity towards BUsh and the War are just words, too, you know. He isn't out there with big signs calling our trooops baby killers, imperialist war-mongers, criminals, etc. He isn't spitting on them and yelling insults as they come home from Iraq.

Acting like a filthy hippy is the ONLY way to not-support the troops. Disagreeing with you on national politics doesn't count.

 

[IglooDame]

One, you directly forget that this President is widely respected among the military. He is our leader regardless of what you may think, feel or decide.

Got cite? From everything I've seen, military folks' respect for the man (as opposed to the office) has been eroding lately.

I guess thats your only real counter to a real soldier who thinks your 'support' stinks.

One soldier does not an army make, recent recruiting ads to the contrary notwithstanding. And if you want to spit on the support you are getting because it doesn't meet your standards of requiring everyone to toe the line with respect to the Bush Administration's beliefs (and I use that term loosely) on national strategy for war and regional diplomacy, then clearly you weren't the target of the support in the first place.

 

[MobBoss]

Got cite? From everything I've seen, military folks' respect for the man (as opposed to the office) has been eroding lately.

Sure, I 'got cite'. Right here: http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2006poll_iraq.php And while the numbers have slipped on his war decisions, overall, the majority still approve of him and the job he is doing. Hell, even I am on record as saying they needed more troops in the war from the get go. So I dont agree with exactly how the war was run, but I still approve of my President.

11) Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling his job as president?

Approve 52%
Disapprove 31%
No opinion 6%
Decline to answer 10%

And its also my opinion that many who may not be in that majority would still react strongly so such words as 'hang the president'.

One soldier does not an army make, recent recruiting ads to the contrary notwithstanding. And if you want to spit on the support you are getting because it doesn't meet your standards of requiring everyone to toe the line with respect to the Bush Administration's beliefs (and I use that term loosely) on national strategy for war and regional diplomacy, then clearly you weren't the target of the support in the first place.

Oh I see, such support is only meant for those soldiers who actually agree with hanging the president. Very nice.

 

[MobBoss]

Frankly, on that basis, I see CivGeneral as more of a patriot than you.

Of course you of all people would see someone that wants the USA to fail as a patriot. I bet you think LT Watada this generations Audie Murphy.

But I dont.

As a final contribution to this thread, I'd like to emphasise how irritated I am by your intentional attempt to twist my post, from a view that one can be a patriot and still show concern for other countries' peoples, into a suggestion that I believe a patriot cares more for other peoples than his own.

No twisting necessary. I think it fairly obvoius that your view of a patriot is someone that kills his countrys leadership if they dont agree with them.

If you behave like this generally (and I believe you do, from spectating on other threads), then there is simply no point trying to have a discussion with you.

If you consider CivG a patriot when he wants his country to fail then I know there is no point in it.

 

[IglooDame]

Sure, I 'got cite'. Right here: http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2006poll_iraq.php And while the numbers have slipped on his war decisions, overall, the majority still approve of him and the job he is doing. Hell, even I am on record as saying they needed more troops in the war from the get go. So I dont agree with exactly how the war was run, but I still approve of my President.

From that website:
Job approval for George W. Bush (2003, 04, 05, 06):
Approve: 67, 71, 60, 52
Disapprove: 13, 16, 21, 31
No opinion: 9, 6, 8, 6
Decline to answer: 10, 7, 10, 10

So yeah, I think my characterization of 'eroding' is accurate, particularly being underpinned by:
How is G.W. Bush handling Iraq (2003, 04, 05, 06):
Approve: 56, 63, 54, 35
Disapprove: 22, 20, 25, 42
No opinion: 9, 8, 9, 10
Decline to answer: 12, 9, 12, 12

Oh I see, such support is only meant for those soldiers who actually agree with hanging the president. Very nice.

That'd be accurate only if every soldier that didn't want to hang the president also felt that 'supporting the troops' = 'agreeing with the president's plan for Iraq'. You still seem unable to fully comprehend (despite occasional glimmers to the contrary) that it is possible to feel that withdrawal from Iraq in the near term is the best path for the US' future (and judging by 13% of respondents in your poll saying we should have zero US troops in Iraq right now and another 23% don't know/no opinion, clearly there are a few people in the military that can clarify that for you) - and since you can't get past that, you can't conceive of someone thinking that and still supporting our troops. So, the failure is yours, not mine, and as I said if you want to thumb your nose at people that honestly are intending to support the troops, that's not something anyone is going to fix here (or care about fixing, once they figure out where the sticking point lies).

Edit: And I'm not talking about hanging the president at all, not sure where that came from. There's about a mile of difference between thinking G.W. Bush has committed treason and thinking he screwed up in Iraq so badly that it is unrecoverable.

 

[aneeshm]

Support the troops: Always, without exception.
Support the administration that started the unjustified war: No.

 

[MobBoss]

From that website:
Job approval for George W. Bush (2003, 04, 05, 06):
Approve: 67, 71, 60, 52
Disapprove: 13, 16, 21, 31
No opinion: 9, 6, 8, 6
Decline to answer: 10, 7, 10, 10

So yeah, I think my characterization of 'eroding' is accurate, particularly being underpinned by:
How is G.W. Bush handling Iraq (2003, 04, 05, 06):
Approve: 56, 63, 54, 35
Disapprove: 22, 20, 25, 42
No opinion: 9, 8, 9, 10
Decline to answer: 12, 9, 12, 12

A couple of points. First, I dont think 'respect' equates as the same thing as 'job approval rating' to be honest. I can still respect the guy while not approving of his performance or agreeing with some of his decisions in Iraq. You said, 'respect' for him was eroding and again, I dont think this poll shows that particularly well.

And even if you do equate the poll to respect, then it still validates my original opinion that most soldiers do indeed respect our president a great deal. The numbers dont invalidate that at all and your request for 'got cite' proves it.

and since you can't get past that, you can't conceive of someone thinking that and still supporting our troops. So, the failure is yours, not mine, and as I said if you want to thumb your nose at people that honestly are intending to support the troops, that's not something anyone is going to fix here (or care about fixing, once they figure out where the sticking point lies).

You couldnt be more wrong. I dont mind difference of opinion - but I do draw the line on people who actively wish for our mission to fail and calls for violence against our elected leaders. You are trying very hard here to defend the undefensible.

Edit: And I'm not talking about hanging the president at all, not sure where that came from.

If you had been following the thread, you might.

There's about a mile of difference between thinking G.W. Bush has committed treason and thinking he screwed up in Iraq so badly that it is unrecoverable.

You apparently are defending White Elk without knowing the whole debate if you feel there is a mile of difference between the two. Perhaps a review of the thread is in order.