Do you think we'll see Lake Baikal this time?

[stealth_nsk]

It looks really strange to me, that oldest, deepest and biggest lake in the world (23% of all surface fresh water) didn't appear as natural wonder yet in civ games, despite other lakes making their appearance.

I'm interested to see if it will be this time.

 

[Siptah]

It certainly is *the* lake on earth.

I‘m always a bit torn on the natural wonders though. Some I consider really wonderful and unique (e.g., Mount Roraima) or unique through the interaction with humans (e.g., Mount Kaliash) others are just… one of many possible options or not that wonderful Especially for lakes, the latter seems the case. Lake Baikal is a natural wonder in the real world, but in civ it wouldn‘t really stand out compared to other lakes with a more special „look“ or „surrounding“ I fear (Lake Hillier, Kilimutu). The way to make it unique would be the number of tiles it occupies.

On that note, we could also have the Aral Sea which starts with 3 tiles and loses one per age…

 

[stealth_nsk]

It certainly is *the* lake on earth.

I‘m always a bit torn on the natural wonders though. Some I consider really wonderful and unique (e.g., Mount Roraima) or unique through the interaction with humans (e.g., Mount Kaliash) others are just… one of many possible options or not that wonderful Especially for lakes, the latter seems the case. Lake Baikal is a natural wonder in the real world, but in civ it wouldn‘t really stand out compared to other lakes with a more special „look“ or „surrounding“ I fear (Lake Hillier, Kilimutu). The way to make it unique would be the number of tiles it occupies.

On that note, we could also have the Aral Sea which starts with 3 tiles and loses one per age…

Aral sea is fantastic example of human effect on the environment. We've seen how it shrinks more and more under human influence (using water from Central Asian rivers for agriculture)... and at some point ruins of medieval city emerged. It turns our Aral had similar effect long time ago, before cultures of those times were destroyed and the lake filled itself again...

Totally fits the layered history approach, btw.

 

[Wabnosa]

Passable, frozen, food, idk.

 

[AriochIV]

Natural Wonders have to be among my least favorite Civilization features. Even given ridiculous and magical yields and bonuses, they never seem to have any meaningful impact on the games I play. Tile yields have become much less important than building yields and effects, and so the main thing natural wonders do it just block development. I barely notice them.

 

[pokiehl]

Natural Wonders have to be among my least favorite Civilization features. Even given ridiculous and magical yields and bonuses, they never seem to have any meaningful impact on the games I play. Tile yields have become much less important than building yields and effects, and so the main thing natural wonders do it just block development. I barely notice them.

Couldn’t disagree more. They do so much to make the map feel more alive and beautiful, they add excitement to the race to settle good lands, etc

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

Natural Wonders have to be among my least favorite Civilization features. Even given ridiculous and magical yields and bonuses, they never seem to have any meaningful impact on the games I play. Tile yields have become much less important than building yields and effects, and so the main thing natural wonders do it just block development. I barely notice them.

The amount I enjoy Natural Wonders is based on how much I had to work to find then and add them to my civ.

The bonuses - usually - are extremely valuable at the very beginning of the game and decline as the game goes on. I think they should be re-worked to use the age, narrative and settlement type systems to keep them interesting.

 

[evonannoredars]

I'd be surprised if it gets added bc idk how they'd make it look like a wonder - without the context of it's depth, it seems more or less like any other lake imo.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The amount I enjoy Natural Wonders is based on how much I had to work to find then and add them to my civ.

The bonuses - usually - are extremely valuable at the very beginning of the game and decline as the game goes on. I think they should be re-worked to use the age, narrative and settlement type systems to keep them interesting.

Natural Wonders are a random element in the game, so their influence, if any, depends entirely on other factors in that particular game.

A Natural Wonder in or near your start position that gives Culture/Religion bonuses can be a game-changer in the early game, but the same Wonder found 100 turns later may be utterly unimportant.

I think the greatest negative about Natural Wonders is that in all my games I have never thought any of them were required for anything else I was doing after the first 20 - 50 turns of the game. Many have great bonuses when you aren't bringing in much from any other source, but they are completely overwhelmed in effect very quickly and, IMHO, never worth warping your game to get them.

 

[Siptah]

I'd be surprised if it gets added bc idk how they'd make it look like a wonder - without the context of it's depth, it seems more or less like any other lake imo.

It is a very distinct shape though. Humankind also got it to look nice. And I mean, if you can make small-scale „wonders“ like delicate arch and redwoods look amazing, Lake Baikal should be a breeze to work with ;-)

 

[gdr_willter]

I think it can be just "lake label".

We can make Himalayas as NW because there is no system about the height of mountains in the game. But in a case of the area of lakes, we can just deal it wiht the amount of tiles which is included to the lake - so it will be hilarious if we have only a 3~4 tile of the "Baikal Lake" NW while we have ~10 tile lakes in the game.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Natural Wonders have to be among my least favorite Civilization features. Even given ridiculous and magical yields and bonuses, they never seem to have any meaningful impact on the games I play. Tile yields have become much less important than building yields and effects, and so the main thing natural wonders do it just block development. I barely notice them.

I don't like pure fantastic ones like the fountain of youth, but the rest are ok. In Civ6 they are pretty impactful, as you could get really powerful religious districts nearby.

I think it can be just "lake label".

We can make Himalayas as NW because there is no system about the height of mountains in the game. But in a case of the area of lakes, we can just deal it wiht the amount of tiles which is included to the lake - so it will be hilarious if we have only a 3~4 tile of the "Baikal Lake" NW while we have ~10 tile lakes in the game.

Actually Baikal is less about area (Caspian Sea is technically a lake, although salty and it has bigger area) - it's depth which gives it volume. I don't know what is the maximum NW area in Civ7, but I believe it's possible to represent Baikal with it.

 

[Evie]

In term of surface area, if the 32 000 square kilometers (roughly) of Baikal translate to four tiles, then we would have all of the following lakes being equal or larger:
-4 tiles: Great Bear Lake, Tanganyika Lake.
-7 tiles: Victoria Lake, Lake Huron, Lake Michigan (the last two can be considered a single 14-tiles lake, too)
-10 tiles: Lake Superior
-49 tiles: Caspian Sea (although geologically, the Caspain Sea is in fact an oceanic basin - the last remnant of the Tethys ocean - and not a sea)

So having a few in-game ;lakes that dwarf the tile count of Baikal is actually quite accurate XD.

That said, I'm not sold on Baikal as a particularly great natural wonder. Most of what makes it special is down to things that can only be measured by methodical measurement ; not something that earlier civilizations would be able to notice. That Everest towers over even its neighborhood is easily noticed ; but just how deep Baikal is, isn't, and in fact it's only once you've accurately mapped the bottom of all major lake that you can really see what makes Baikal exceptional. Since natural wonder are supposed to work from early in the game, I'd favor more direclty observable wonders.

 

[j51]

It has freshwater seals. That’s neat.

 

[Daigotsu Max]

I'd love to see it IRL, and as a wonder too. I think the only issue with natural wonders is there's just so much to choose from.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Natural Wonders have to be among my least favorite Civilization features.

Same here. I love this feature I want as many as we can get. So yes, Lake Baikal would be awesome. I always wanted to see it but I don't think it will be possible shortly

 

[Siptah]

In term of surface area, if the 32 000 square kilometers (roughly) of Baikal translate to four tiles, then we would have all of the following lakes being equal or larger:
-4 tiles: Great Bear Lake, Tanganyika Lake.
-7 tiles: Victoria Lake, Lake Huron, Lake Michigan (the last two can be considered a single 14-tiles lake, too)
-10 tiles: Lake Superior
-49 tiles: Caspian Sea (although geologically, the Caspain Sea is in fact an oceanic basin - the last remnant of the Tethys ocean - and not a sea)

So having a few in-game ;lakes that dwarf the tile count of Baikal is actually quite accurate XD.

That said, I'm not sold on Baikal as a particularly great natural wonder. Most of what makes it special is down to things that can only be measured by methodical measurement ; not something that earlier civilizations would be able to notice. That Everest towers over even its neighborhood is easily noticed ; but just how deep Baikal is, isn't, and in fact it's only once you've accurately mapped the bottom of all major lake that you can really see what makes Baikal exceptional. Since natural wonder are supposed to work from early in the game, I'd favor more direclty observable wonders.

Everest actually isn‘t a good example for this. Depending on the perspective (i.e. from all but a few spots) it isn‘t towering over its neighbors but looks smaller. It‘s also relatively hidden anyway, and the shape isn’t very memorable. The area has other mountains that are far more significant visually and also for the people that live in the area. Ama Dablam, for example, would be the superior choice by the same standard of disregarding the depth of Baikal. And of course Machapuchare and Kailash if we include mountains that aren’t directly next to Everest and outshine it on the same photo.

 

[Vandlys]

Same here. I love this feature I want as many as we can get. So yes, Lake Baikal would be awesome. I always wanted to see it but I don't think it will be possible shortly

They said LEAST favourite...

 

[Xandinho]

Natural Wonders have to be among my least favorite Civilization features. Even given ridiculous and magical yields and bonuses, they never seem to have any meaningful impact on the games I play. Tile yields have become much less important than building yields and effects, and so the main thing natural wonders do it just block development. I barely notice them.

I think the opposite. I love natural wonders because they make the map feel so alive and interesting. They’re also a great incentive for exploration. As for them granting “magical” bonuses—well, almost everything in Civ grants magical bonuses. If you build a wonder, you’ll get a magical bonus too. Just think of the Kotoku-in in Civ6, magically spawning warrior monks on your map after you construct it.

As long as they stay away from things like the Bermuda Triangle and the Fountain of Youth, I’ll always be 100% fine with natural wonders.

 

[Patine]

In term of surface area, if the 32 000 square kilometers (roughly) of Baikal translate to four tiles, then we would have all of the following lakes being equal or larger:
-4 tiles: Great Bear Lake, Tanganyika Lake.
-7 tiles: Victoria Lake, Lake Huron, Lake Michigan (the last two can be considered a single 14-tiles lake, too)
-10 tiles: Lake Superior
-49 tiles: Caspian Sea (although geologically, the Caspain Sea is in fact an oceanic basin - the last remnant of the Tethys ocean - and not a sea)

So having a few in-game ;lakes that dwarf the tile count of Baikal is actually quite accurate XD.

That said, I'm not sold on Baikal as a particularly great natural wonder. Most of what makes it special is down to things that can only be measured by methodical measurement ; not something that earlier civilizations would be able to notice. That Everest towers over even its neighborhood is easily noticed ; but just how deep Baikal is, isn't, and in fact it's only once you've accurately mapped the bottom of all major lake that you can really see what makes Baikal exceptional. Since natural wonder are supposed to work from early in the game, I'd favor more direclty observable wonders.

I was just about to point out.