Actually, I checked. and we dont have any active deals with celts... so my guess is that they may die soon... 
DocT3 Best Start Ever! (Emperor)
- Thread starter Doc Tsiolkovski
- Start date
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Must have expired during my last turns; didn't check it, to be honest. We have some Elite Cavs down there 
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romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
I would do a quick war on Sumeria to raze the city on our main island and any cities by Hippo, then declare peace.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Yes, thought about that, too. But Sumeria and Japan are big buddies, we cannot risk to fight Sumeria without signing Japan on our side; and with our overstretched forces, this will only mean Japan would get most of Sumeria.
Oops.. totally forgot about this game.. playing now
1280AD, inherited turn:
Sumeria is in industrual ages.. we cant check if they have nationalism yet since we dont have an embassy with them, so I establish one for 34gold
Ur is size 4, making 9spt and 33 culture per turn. it is defended by 4 pikes.
Yes, MPP and trade embargos is available from sumeria.. so they got nationalism.
hmm.. entremont needs 1 MP or a raise from 10% to 30% tax to get WLTKD.. which would speed up FP probably with several turns.
could also buy a lux from japan for cheaper than the 20% raise in lux.. but I would rather not help japan if it isnt needed, plus the lux tax is only temporary untill another unit is available to be shipped to entremont.
problem is where do I get a unit to put in entremont from? Decide to rush a the courthouse in Camulodunum to it can get build a unit next... on 2nd thought.. that town dont have a barracks yet.. so decide to switch the curthouse build in lungdunum to a musket and rush that instead
the army is standing in seoul, while we still have 3 cities with resisters.. decide to move armmy to size 6 cheju that has 5 resisters, has market and harbor already.. and it has pretty low corruption.
hmm.. cheju has happyness govenor turned on (causing it to make 1 less food per turn)? turn that off and go though all cities to see if there are more..
IBT:
WLTK day in several cities.. (FP seems to drop from 15 turns left to 9 turns)
Japan start newtons
1285BC, turn 1:
4 resisters got quelled in Cheju (one remaining) gained 5gpt from this.
checking how much magnetism would cost us.. japan, france and sumeria are all polite..
france will sell magnetism to us for 170gold, 66gpt.. japan would need 75gpt.. while sumeria would never accept a deal for all our gpt, saltpeter and furs?!? did we break a deal with them at one point or something? Or perhaps they are planning to sneak attack us? (They have no problems doing gpt deals for gold)
Buying for that much would mean dropping entremount out of WLTKD thou, so hold off
IBT:
Lepis magna: cav -> bank
Japan complete shakespeares
summeria start smith
1290AD, turn 2:
resistance ended in Cheju, send army to pusan
Musket reach entremont and I can drop lux to 10% again and keep WLTK day.
Mayans lost 2 cities in the IBT, one to japan and one to france.. they have 2 cities left. checking to make sure we dont pay them or ship them resources/luxes.. and we dont, so our rep should be safe.
decide to buy magnetism so I can feep an eye on what techs are available
magnetism from france for WM, 215gold and 62gpt
summeria has nationalism, no other civs has any IA techs yet
IBT:
P'yongyang: harbor -> court
Utica: musket -> musket
france start smiths
1295AD, turn 3:
nada
IBT:
Maya and ottomans sign peace
maya and celts sign peace
1300AD, turn 4:
cultural expansions bring another iron online.
maya is down to an OCC now
move army into pyongsong to quell resistance
IBT:
the rampaging french forces has destroyed the maya
4 resisters quelled in Pyongsong (1 left)
1305AD, turn 5:
rush the temple in seoul
IBT:
Seoul: temple -> settler
Ouch.. Inch'on flips to summeria.. atleast we didnt loose the cavs that was there since i had moved the out of the town earlier due to the high fliprisk (was around 1.5% per turn)
resistance in pyongsong ends, and all resisting citizens finally gone
1310AD, turn 6:
france picked up nationalism in the IBT
IBT:
Utica: musket -> musket
sabatha: market -> aqueduct
1315AD, turn 7:
nada
IBT:
Cheju: temple -> aqueduct
1320AD, turn 8:
nada
IBT:
loose incense
1325AD, turn 9:
renew incese deal with ottomans.. chivalry or gunpowder alone isn't enoug to get incense..but
education gives incense, WM, 13gold and 4gpt
IBT:
france demand TM and 25gold.. give it to her.. I dont want war with france yet
Complete FP in entremont, set to build aqueduct
Lepis Magna: cav -> cav
1330AD, turn 10:
not much
Didnt do much.. mostly building infrastructure and some units.. never got around to killing off celts..
Getting the FP helped a lot for corruption.
Chopped a lot of forests, and planted one east-northeast of pyongyang
The save
Sumeria is in industrual ages.. we cant check if they have nationalism yet since we dont have an embassy with them, so I establish one for 34gold
Ur is size 4, making 9spt and 33 culture per turn. it is defended by 4 pikes.
Yes, MPP and trade embargos is available from sumeria.. so they got nationalism.
hmm.. entremont needs 1 MP or a raise from 10% to 30% tax to get WLTKD.. which would speed up FP probably with several turns.
could also buy a lux from japan for cheaper than the 20% raise in lux.. but I would rather not help japan if it isnt needed, plus the lux tax is only temporary untill another unit is available to be shipped to entremont.
problem is where do I get a unit to put in entremont from? Decide to rush a the courthouse in Camulodunum to it can get build a unit next... on 2nd thought.. that town dont have a barracks yet.. so decide to switch the curthouse build in lungdunum to a musket and rush that instead
the army is standing in seoul, while we still have 3 cities with resisters.. decide to move armmy to size 6 cheju that has 5 resisters, has market and harbor already.. and it has pretty low corruption.
hmm.. cheju has happyness govenor turned on (causing it to make 1 less food per turn)? turn that off and go though all cities to see if there are more..
IBT:
WLTK day in several cities.. (FP seems to drop from 15 turns left to 9 turns)
Japan start newtons
1285BC, turn 1:
4 resisters got quelled in Cheju (one remaining) gained 5gpt from this.
checking how much magnetism would cost us.. japan, france and sumeria are all polite..
france will sell magnetism to us for 170gold, 66gpt.. japan would need 75gpt.. while sumeria would never accept a deal for all our gpt, saltpeter and furs?!? did we break a deal with them at one point or something? Or perhaps they are planning to sneak attack us? (They have no problems doing gpt deals for gold)
Buying for that much would mean dropping entremount out of WLTKD thou, so hold off
IBT:
Lepis magna: cav -> bank
Japan complete shakespeares
summeria start smith
1290AD, turn 2:
resistance ended in Cheju, send army to pusan
Musket reach entremont and I can drop lux to 10% again and keep WLTK day.
Mayans lost 2 cities in the IBT, one to japan and one to france.. they have 2 cities left. checking to make sure we dont pay them or ship them resources/luxes.. and we dont, so our rep should be safe.
decide to buy magnetism so I can feep an eye on what techs are available
magnetism from france for WM, 215gold and 62gpt
summeria has nationalism, no other civs has any IA techs yet
IBT:
P'yongyang: harbor -> court
Utica: musket -> musket
france start smiths
1295AD, turn 3:
nada
IBT:
Maya and ottomans sign peace
maya and celts sign peace
1300AD, turn 4:
cultural expansions bring another iron online.
maya is down to an OCC now
move army into pyongsong to quell resistance
IBT:
the rampaging french forces has destroyed the maya
4 resisters quelled in Pyongsong (1 left)
1305AD, turn 5:
rush the temple in seoul
IBT:
Seoul: temple -> settler
Ouch.. Inch'on flips to summeria.. atleast we didnt loose the cavs that was there since i had moved the out of the town earlier due to the high fliprisk (was around 1.5% per turn)
resistance in pyongsong ends, and all resisting citizens finally gone
1310AD, turn 6:
france picked up nationalism in the IBT
IBT:
Utica: musket -> musket
sabatha: market -> aqueduct
1315AD, turn 7:
nada
IBT:
Cheju: temple -> aqueduct
1320AD, turn 8:
nada
IBT:
loose incense
1325AD, turn 9:
renew incese deal with ottomans.. chivalry or gunpowder alone isn't enoug to get incense..but
education gives incense, WM, 13gold and 4gpt
IBT:
france demand TM and 25gold.. give it to her.. I dont want war with france yet
Complete FP in entremont, set to build aqueduct
Lepis Magna: cav -> cav
1330AD, turn 10:
not much
Didnt do much.. mostly building infrastructure and some units.. never got around to killing off celts..
Getting the FP helped a lot for corruption.
Chopped a lot of forests, and planted one east-northeast of pyongyang
The save
Got it.
Preturn: I switch the min research to Nationalism. The reason is that we will want to buy steam the second we can get it which is not going to be 42 turns so whatever research we put into it will almost certainly go to waste.. On the other hand we can be quite happy to get Nationalism in 50 as it is not a high priority and since it is one of the expensive techs we save vs buying it.
I notice I can lower lux and cities seem ok at their current size - I do so.
I think I will be killing off the Celts
Ottomans are scientific. I do "Ye olde gift the civ into the next age and trade" trick. Ottomans get Steam! Uh Oh. Our rep is ruined. We had an active deal with the Mayans when they died. Must have been giving them some resource.
So I renegotiate peace (I would also like to honor this deal if at all possible) and get Steam for the optional techs, 177 gold and a massive 101 gpt which we can just barely afford. I then turn around and get democracy, then Free Artistery, and a bunch of gpt from the other civs and about 70 gpt back from the Ottomans when I trade them Democracy. We have steam, are +100 gpt over before, and have Democracy (for whatever that is worth). All over civs except broke France has Steam Power. We are only down Nationalism. I didn't try to buy but will get via the 50 turn min. We can buy the other techs first.
I suspect my turns will be peaceful unless we want to go for france in 8 turns.
I plan to build some workers. We have coal BTW.
War on the Celts.
IBT: The Celts get an advancing Cav with an archer.
1335 AD: The celts are destroyed.
IBT: Smiths is completed.
1340 AD: Trade our furs for 23 gpt to Sumeria.
Change my mind on nationalism. I am going to get it ASAP. Espionage seems a good way to deal with a bad rep - Raise science - will get it in 12.
1345 AD: I am keeping the building of Cavalry going BTW in some towns.
IBT: Sumeria and Japan declare an MPP. Sumeria declares on the Ottomans. Ottomans finish Statue of Zeus!. Too bad they are industrial.
1350 AD:
1355 AD:
1360 AD: Japan will give us 39 gpt for furs. This allows us to run science at 100% for -4 gpt.
IBT: One of our Galleys is sunk by a privateer who is sunk by a French ship.
1365 AD:
1370 AD:
1375 AD:
1380 AD: I actually intended to stop after 9 to round off the years again, but accidentally hit space.
Ottomans got Nationalism. This means we get Nationalism ourselves next turn. Renegotiate a Lux deal with France so that we get 38 gpt instead of paying 56 gpt (tech deal ran out).
Notes:
I put the war off by 20 turns, but feel it was worthwhile due to good deals to be had.
I am still building Cavalry though so we can do the attack in 20 turns.
For science I was thinking Nationalism, then Espionage. Then we run cash and steal/trade techs using spies. The AI only has Nationalism up on us (and maybe Communism, Fascism, or Espionage (alternatively we can research ourselves, but need Unis for that).
It may be worth it to revolt. We would bring in more cash with Republic or even Democracy (probably not due to WW though). Its not like we need lots of MP's our towns are small.
Japanese may take out the Ottomans before that much longer.
We have 341 gpt incoming from other civs and are paying out 163 gpt. We will get back 62 gpt in 2 turns from a French deal (only the Ottoman 101 gpt deal will remain).
Since our rep is already shot, we can declare war at any point if we so choose. All the deals but the Ottoman one are pure gpt deals. I would rather not break that one (and I see little reason to attack the Ottomans anyway).
I notice I can lower lux and cities seem ok at their current size - I do so.
I think I will be killing off the Celts
Ottomans are scientific. I do "Ye olde gift the civ into the next age and trade" trick. Ottomans get Steam! Uh Oh. Our rep is ruined. We had an active deal with the Mayans when they died. Must have been giving them some resource.
So I renegotiate peace (I would also like to honor this deal if at all possible) and get Steam for the optional techs, 177 gold and a massive 101 gpt which we can just barely afford. I then turn around and get democracy, then Free Artistery, and a bunch of gpt from the other civs and about 70 gpt back from the Ottomans when I trade them Democracy. We have steam, are +100 gpt over before, and have Democracy (for whatever that is worth). All over civs except broke France has Steam Power. We are only down Nationalism. I didn't try to buy but will get via the 50 turn min. We can buy the other techs first.
I suspect my turns will be peaceful unless we want to go for france in 8 turns.
I plan to build some workers. We have coal BTW.
War on the Celts.
IBT: The Celts get an advancing Cav with an archer.
1335 AD: The celts are destroyed.
IBT: Smiths is completed.
1340 AD: Trade our furs for 23 gpt to Sumeria.
Change my mind on nationalism. I am going to get it ASAP. Espionage seems a good way to deal with a bad rep - Raise science - will get it in 12.
1345 AD: I am keeping the building of Cavalry going BTW in some towns.
IBT: Sumeria and Japan declare an MPP. Sumeria declares on the Ottomans. Ottomans finish Statue of Zeus!. Too bad they are industrial.
1350 AD:
1355 AD:
1360 AD: Japan will give us 39 gpt for furs. This allows us to run science at 100% for -4 gpt.
IBT: One of our Galleys is sunk by a privateer who is sunk by a French ship.
1365 AD:
1370 AD:
1375 AD:
1380 AD: I actually intended to stop after 9 to round off the years again, but accidentally hit space.
Ottomans got Nationalism. This means we get Nationalism ourselves next turn. Renegotiate a Lux deal with France so that we get 38 gpt instead of paying 56 gpt (tech deal ran out).
Notes:
I put the war off by 20 turns, but feel it was worthwhile due to good deals to be had.
I am still building Cavalry though so we can do the attack in 20 turns.
For science I was thinking Nationalism, then Espionage. Then we run cash and steal/trade techs using spies. The AI only has Nationalism up on us (and maybe Communism, Fascism, or Espionage (alternatively we can research ourselves, but need Unis for that).
It may be worth it to revolt. We would bring in more cash with Republic or even Democracy (probably not due to WW though). Its not like we need lots of MP's our towns are small.
Japanese may take out the Ottomans before that much longer.
We have 341 gpt incoming from other civs and are paying out 163 gpt. We will get back 62 gpt in 2 turns from a French deal (only the Ottoman 101 gpt deal will remain).
Since our rep is already shot, we can declare war at any point if we so choose. All the deals but the Ottoman one are pure gpt deals. I would rather not break that one (and I see little reason to attack the Ottomans anyway).
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Re: Revolt
Problem I see is: Whom are we fighting next? France surely is doable in Republic, but after that it's Sumeria or Japan, or even both. While we could handle the WW (by getting them to declare), wouldn't we have troubles by loosing almost all Luxuries?
Problem I see is: Whom are we fighting next? France surely is doable in Republic, but after that it's Sumeria or Japan, or even both. While we could handle the WW (by getting them to declare), wouldn't we have troubles by loosing almost all Luxuries?
nope, we didnt have any deals running with them when they died..
Something ruined our rep before that..
I could not buy magnetism from summeria for gpt , while japan and france had no problems with it, so it is possible we had broken some kind of deal with mayas earlier since both japan and france was at war with maya at that point
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
We possibly shiped them Silks for a tech/gp, and they no longer had an harbor. Since nobody could expect the Mayans getting eaten alive in a few turns, not much we could have done about it.
Edit:
I'm not really sure what the best strategy would be now. IMHO we have several choices:
1) Republic now (btw Greebley, isn't Republic and "small towns not needing MP anyway" pretty contradictary
?). Get Factories, Inf and Ari (maybe use the ToE to grab RP, we won't build Hoover anyway). Then, take out Japan->Sumeria->France->Ottos
2) Attack Sumeria ASAP; grab those 2 annoying cities. Sign in France against Japan; fight defensively against Japan, make peace with Sumeria ASAP. Then Republic, infra,...
3) Build more forces, go for Communism instead.
4) Fight France soon.
For balance sake, I think we shouldn't touch France before Japan. Thus, I lean towards Republic, Infantry + Artillery, and then go on rampage.
Edit:
I'm not really sure what the best strategy would be now. IMHO we have several choices:
1) Republic now (btw Greebley, isn't Republic and "small towns not needing MP anyway" pretty contradictary
?). Get Factories, Inf and Ari (maybe use the ToE to grab RP, we won't build Hoover anyway). Then, take out Japan->Sumeria->France->Ottos2) Attack Sumeria ASAP; grab those 2 annoying cities. Sign in France against Japan; fight defensively against Japan, make peace with Sumeria ASAP. Then Republic, infra,...
3) Build more forces, go for Communism instead.
4) Fight France soon.
For balance sake, I think we shouldn't touch France before Japan. Thus, I lean towards Republic, Infantry + Artillery, and then go on rampage.
Why are small towns and Republic contradictory? I think republic works best with the smaller towns. You get sufficient unit support, don't need to set Lux rate very high, and of course you get somewhere between 50% and 100% improvement in cash.
I do agree ommunism will often win over republic for small towns. It depends on the distribution of pop and ability to hire scientists as well as the need of shields vs science, and the number of towns (you can have too many towns for communism to be good).
I don't think Monarchy is ever better than republic excepting the case of long protacted wars for much of the game.
I think 1) is best as well. I also want to hit the most dangerous civ and keep the civs more balanced. Hitting Japan has an additional advantage of it being easy to get to. We do have to make sure our towns are adequately guarded.
Communism would be the other possibility, but we would need more aquaducts in distant towns before that is a win. If all our population is near the capitol then republic is better in terms of corruption.
I do agree ommunism will often win over republic for small towns. It depends on the distribution of pop and ability to hire scientists as well as the need of shields vs science, and the number of towns (you can have too many towns for communism to be good).
I don't think Monarchy is ever better than republic excepting the case of long protacted wars for much of the game.
I think 1) is best as well. I also want to hit the most dangerous civ and keep the civs more balanced. Hitting Japan has an additional advantage of it being easy to get to. We do have to make sure our towns are adequately guarded.
Communism would be the other possibility, but we would need more aquaducts in distant towns before that is a win. If all our population is near the capitol then republic is better in terms of corruption.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
If you mean "small cities", I agree. Towns+Republic+huge/big military is not something I find that convincing. For me, Republic means to get everything above size 6 ASAP (making AGR really strong here, due to the cheap Ducts).
If we go for Infantry, we may have to invest in a couple of cash-rushed Universities in cities like Carthage.
If we go for Infantry, we may have to invest in a couple of cash-rushed Universities in cities like Carthage.
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
I have a strong tendancy to go with the infantry and Artillary mode. I will probably cash rush some Universities, and shoot for the ToE. I think that too many arguements here would be rather silly. I am pretty sure that in 10 turns we could make this an AW game and still win any way we choose. I am just voting for arty and infantry to hurt Sumeria, then Japan, and then we can conquest our way out of here.
Got it when I get home here.
Got it when I get home here.
Ah, ok. I see what you are saying Doc. Point taken. One of the reasons I like to build aquaducts early especially in corrupt towns.
Rep Parts is an excellent tech for republic in that they can speed the aquaducts with civil engineers. When we get it we should do this for towns that need it to get our support up.
Rep Parts is an excellent tech for republic in that they can speed the aquaducts with civil engineers. When we get it we should do this for towns that need it to get our support up.
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
IHT: Not much to do
IBT: We learn Nationalism, France and Sumeria each have commie and Facism, Japan just Commie.
Turn 1: Workers are built, build some more. Electricity in 20. Builds are favoring self research and ducts.
Turn 2: Workers move. We get a gpt refund. Bush must have won. (Sorry for the bad election humor, I did vote, and I use dark humor sometimes.)
Turn 3: Rush court at P'ynogyang. Rush courthouse at Seoul.
Turn 4: Japan and Ottos sign peace. Sumeria and France pop up with Industrialization. Buy a Sumerian worker for 110 gold.
Turn 5: Found Saldae. More Worker action. Rush court at Oea.
Turn 6: Ottos and Sumeria sign peace. Japan extorts a TM and 25 gold. Rush courthouse in Russadir.
Turn 7: French Build Newtons.
Turn 8: We lost our supply of incencse, but Osman wants a ton of gpt for it. Rush library in Carthage. We have something resembling a railnet now.
Turn 9: Our GPT takes a dive. Wow. Buy a Jap worker for 120 gold. We now make -92 gpt at max research. Cut the sumerians off from their/our Iron. Lux to 10%. Peace with the Ottos straight up, and we are no longer hemoraghing cash.
Turn 10: We are running 10 % lux, 90% Science, making 8 gpt, getting Electricity in 7 turns.
A 2 fer exists with Industrialization and Facism, but we really don't need facism. I really went kinda heavy infra here with an emphasis on courts. After playing my turns here I am in favor of a government switch, republic or commie doesn't matter, we either need more commerce or more shields or both. We could really be bold and try and space race this one and go with Demo. That hasn't happened in an SG for an age or two. Actually put me down for a demo space race.
IBT: We learn Nationalism, France and Sumeria each have commie and Facism, Japan just Commie.
Turn 1: Workers are built, build some more. Electricity in 20. Builds are favoring self research and ducts.
Turn 2: Workers move. We get a gpt refund. Bush must have won. (Sorry for the bad election humor, I did vote, and I use dark humor sometimes.)
Turn 3: Rush court at P'ynogyang. Rush courthouse at Seoul.
Turn 4: Japan and Ottos sign peace. Sumeria and France pop up with Industrialization. Buy a Sumerian worker for 110 gold.
Turn 5: Found Saldae. More Worker action. Rush court at Oea.
Turn 6: Ottos and Sumeria sign peace. Japan extorts a TM and 25 gold. Rush courthouse in Russadir.
Turn 7: French Build Newtons.
Turn 8: We lost our supply of incencse, but Osman wants a ton of gpt for it. Rush library in Carthage. We have something resembling a railnet now.
Turn 9: Our GPT takes a dive. Wow. Buy a Jap worker for 120 gold. We now make -92 gpt at max research. Cut the sumerians off from their/our Iron. Lux to 10%. Peace with the Ottos straight up, and we are no longer hemoraghing cash.
Turn 10: We are running 10 % lux, 90% Science, making 8 gpt, getting Electricity in 7 turns.
A 2 fer exists with Industrialization and Facism, but we really don't need facism. I really went kinda heavy infra here with an emphasis on courts. After playing my turns here I am in favor of a government switch, republic or commie doesn't matter, we either need more commerce or more shields or both. We could really be bold and try and space race this one and go with Demo. That hasn't happened in an SG for an age or two. Actually put me down for a demo space race.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Nice suggestion:
1) Republic, Conquests victory
2) Demo, Space Race
Team call!
I like SEA Civs for Space Races, the cheap Com Docks and Offshore Platforms help a lot. And I don't really like Emperor late-game wars, you win anyway, but they still require lots of tedious work.
My vote goes to Space (fine, at least here I'm entitled to vote, despite this having a lot less impact on my existance...
)
1) Republic, Conquests victory
2) Demo, Space Race
Team call!
I like SEA Civs for Space Races, the cheap Com Docks and Offshore Platforms help a lot. And I don't really like Emperor late-game wars, you win anyway, but they still require lots of tedious work.
My vote goes to Space (fine, at least here I'm entitled to vote, despite this having a lot less impact on my existance...
)
I vote for space too.. mainly because I havent played a game with space victory for over a year, and I cant remember last I used democracy
Bigfoot
Emperor
If this were a solo game I would go the Republic -> conquest route, but then that's what I usually do. I guess it would be good to try a different type of game for a change, so Demo. -> space it is. I will switch to Democracy during my turn set, and continue building infra. and rifles. We will need to start a prebuild for T of E pretty soon as well.
Got it.
Got it.
Demo & space sounds fun to me too. Lets go for it.
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