Does FFH need a Lizardman Civ?

[Ekolite]

Yours do, my idea was that they worship a sort of idol that gains strength as they sacrifice more and more souls to it. The actual idol could be described as a sort of spectre that devours on the souls, its using the lizardmen really. They live in the ruins of the ancient lizard civilization primarilly, but lost all the ancient knowledge. They have lost all interest in the egg, and mostly want revenge against the orcs and to please their idol.

Hian, what did you think of the pics? THe ghostly one is the spectre god thing . Also, what is the actual status atm? Has anyone actually started modding anything? Are we doing both civs? I really think we should.

 

[woodelf]

I vote for 2 civs since this will be an add-on or 2.

I haven't started doing anything, Hian?

 

[Hian the Frog]

I vote for 2 civs since this will be an add-on or 2.

I haven't started doing anything, Hian?

Woodelf, all,

In fact, i prefer mine. But as it is an add-on, both can be made. The question is: one or two patches ?

I haven't started. I'm busy, but i can find time to do a few XML code. Nevertheless, before starting anything, we should all agree on what is common to both civs, what is the base of work, bla bla. As i have a very few free time, i don't want to waste it.

Below, a few questions still without answer:
- Palace: same as "common" palace, but what are the three bonuses ? Personnaly, i ask for Earth (logical as linked to an earth dragon), Body (Lizardmen are a strong race) and maybe nature.
- NU(s): what are they ? In my version, there are two NUs. One is a bow pipe (right word in english ? ) to replace the longbowman and the other is either a ranger or beatsmaster (logical if you read their history). This last one should be as usual but with an other bonus: +25% vs Beasts.
- UB: At least one in my version. It will be the "Temple of the Worm" to replace the Pagan Temple. Do you have a better idea or something to add ?
- Art files: where are they ? Are they ready ? Do we have all that is needed (palace, temple, units,...) ?
- I'm a XML coder in my Team, not program coder. All that need some changes in SDK or Python is simply like walking on the water... so impossible. Creating the patch by itself is also not my job in my team actually. We usually share the job among us depending on our knowledge and capacities. (time also).
- Leaders: what about the leaders ? In my version, there are two, maybe three. One will be "Mother Ss'aha" spiritual/Summoner/Agnostic and the other "Tek'la", a war leader, Defender/Charismatic/Agnostic.
- Pedia: As you know and can read, my english isn't as good as yours. Somebody must take this part of job. Or i can do it in french !
- ....

All that need to be answered.
IMO, there is no hurry. We must agree on something before starting. Then i will do my part of job. Adding a building or two, a few units, .... some XML code is not so long if you take care.

Woodelf, as FfH structure is very different from my mod, which still runs under Warlords , i have to study a bit the changes. I will also ask for your light in case of.

I will have a few days of holidays around the second half of february. Maybe i will find time to do a few codes.

Hian the Frog.

 

[Ekolite]

Hmm ok. Well I think the general concensus is to have both the civs. I assume those ideas were for your civ, here's some details for mine.

Leaders: Not settled on a name as such, but I think their evil god would be a good leader, probs using the second picture in post 118 as a LH.
Palace: ''The Spire'' or ''The Tower'', the main place they sacrifice people to their God. Mana types: Not sure yet but along the lines of Entropy, Body, and Nature / Water most likely.
UUs: A Unique Mage line with access hopefully to some unique spells. Apart from that not sure.
UBs: Temple of {god name} unique pagan temple. Provides happiness with religion and a resource. Not sure which yet.

Things both civs should have a unique granary/smokehouse with more lizzard-like resources.

EDIT: What I wanted for my civ was basically for them to be able to sacrifce slaves in their capital (in the spire). When a certain number were sacrifced, say 5, they would get a unique ''building'' called Empowerment I, this isn't a building as such, just a marker like the hope or inspiration ''buildings''. This would provide bonuses to the civilization, things like increased unit build times, happy faces etc. Then they can continue to sacrifice to another limit, 10 for now. This would provide further bonuses for eg, +10% str for all units. The next limit, 20 would provide a unique spell to mage units related to the civ, the next, 50 would provide another unique spell. The final empowerment would bring in their ''god'', who will be very powerful, their hero. I dont know how they will get the slaves, they could maybe sacrifice their own units or population I dont know.

In general, all lizzie(my civs) units basic strength will be one or two less then the normal, however they will get bonuses from the empowerment and there might be specail buildings to give them poison damage, no lizzies can get weapon promos.

I have no expirience in modding so I'll sort out other stuff like pictures, ideas, etc.

 

[woodelf]

I haven't done any modding in BtS really so I need to see what's changed since Vanilla. This shouldn't be too hard I hope.

I like the differences in both setups now. Ranged versus magic. That should offer differing styles of gameplay.

 

[Hian the Frog]

Hmm ok. Well I think the general concensus is to have both the civs. I assume those ideas were for your civ, here's some details for mine.

Leaders: Not settled on a name as such, but I think their evil god would be a good leader, probs using the second picture in post 118 as a LH.
Palace: ''The Spire'' or ''The Tower'', the main place they sacrifice people to their God. Mana types: Not sure yet but along the lines of Entropy, Body, and Water most likely.
UUs: A Unique Mage line with access hopefully to some unique spells. Apart from that not sure.
UBs: Temple of {god name} unique pagan temple. Provides happiness with religion and a resource. Not sure which yet.

Things both civs should have a unique granary/smokehouse with more lizzard-like resources.

EDIT: What I wanted for my civ was basically for them to be able to sacrifce slaves in their capital (in the spire). When a certain number were sacrifced, say 5, they would get a unique ''building'' called Empowerment I, this isn't a building as such, just a marker like the hope or inspiration ''buildings''. This would provide bonuses to the civilization, things like increased unit build times, happy faces etc. Then they can continue to sacrifice to another limit, 10 for now. This would provide further bonuses for eg, +10% str for all units. The next limit, 20 would provide a unique spell to mage units related to the civ, the next, 50 would provide another unique spell. The final empowerment would bring in their ''god'', who will be very powerful, their hero. I dont know how they will get the slaves, they could maybe sacrifice their own units or population I dont know.

In general, all lizzie(my civs) units basic strength will be one or two less then the normal, however they will get bonuses from the empowerment and there might be specail buildings to give them poison damage, no lizzies can get weapon promos.

I have no expirience in modding so I'll sort out other stuff like pictures, ideas, etc.

As i said your idea is quite interesting too. What i fear is simple: it will need some 'hard" code to work. There is the problem.... Your "spire" is a very interesting idea but at that time, we have nothing already done to use it properly. That's why i say we stay as simple as possible.

Hian the Frog.

 

[Ekolite]

I believe there may already be mechanics in place that you can use. You can sacrifice Great prophets to make altar of luonnator, surely this isn't so different. There are things like the dwarf vaults that provide extra production GPP etc, so these things must be possible surely. If not I'll try to think of a different way to represent it but the above is the ideal scenario. I designed it to be work similiarly to these things already in place to try to avoid hard code.

 

[xienwolf]

To use the Altar of Luonnotar idea, and limit to the capitol, I think you would need:

1. Probably need a UU version of slaves just so nobody else has an annoying icon they cannot use. But make slaves able to construct a series of buildings for the empire.
2. Building 1 has the pre-req of your palace, this locks you to doing it in the capitol only.
3. Each building requires the previous building to construct, and you put your empowerment bonuses on buildings 5/10/15 or whatever numbers you want.


So you would have to add a LOT of buildings to the game, most of them with the same function as each other, just to track how many slaves you have sacraficed. I guess the names can simply be "Empowerment Building 1 (13/15)" which upgrades with sacraficing a slave to "Empowerment Building 1 (14/15)" which upgrades to "Empowerment Building 2 (15/30)"...

And of course the effect of (13/15) & (14/15) would be exactly the same, making the prior one obsolete.

 

[Ekolite]

The dwarf vault changes depending on how much gold you have, could you create another ''gold'' that is basically a track of how many slaves you've sacrificed, for every slave sacrifced it is increased by 1. In an old version of FFH it showed what level the vaults were next to the gold, this was not shown when playing another civ so it should be possible to have something like that.

I think we should hink of a different way to do this though. This idea would take way too much effort to make and the AI izzie civ would suck because it wouldn't understand how to do it. Back to the drawing board.

 

[xienwolf]

If you do it with the building idea it is easy to make the AI do it properly by just setting the weighting of those buildings so high that it will ALWAYS sacrafice a slave to improve it as soon as possible.

I personally don't know how to set up another system of Gold. I was thinking about how to do it a little while back to establish a "Spell Point" pool that you would have to use in order to cast any spells, thus slightly restricting the power of magic unless you really gear yourself toward it. If you CAN set up another gold counter, with a new base, then there are hundreds of possibilities for it

 

[Ekolite]

We could just let great people build them, I know its a bit similiar to AoL but it obviously needs to be similiar. We could just use great sages probs.

 

[JDexter]

I LOVE the idea with the slaves (although I'm not usually a fan of sacrifices ). It would really be great if you could pull the upgraded building in the capital off!

Also, maybe you could have one more building that could be built in every city with the unique temple through a sacrifice. This one shouldn't upgrade, but provide a way to maybe increase production - instead of a forge for example (after all if they don't have weapon upgrades, why should the have a forge?) - or +2 or something experience points for new units to make up for the weaker base strength.

 

[Ekolite]

Hian, I had a look for LHs for your lizzie tribe, you wont believe how difficult it is to find decent pics for them. Will have another look a.s.a.p.

For mine I'm using this pic

I just think it captures their image so well, I wish I could remember where I found it.

 

[xienwolf]

Deviant search for Lizardman
Diviant search for Draconian (You will probably have to edit out the wings if you use one of those).

Altavista Image search for Lizardman
Altavista Image search for Draconian (First one showing for me seems nifty)

 

[Ekolite]

tried deviant art - lizardman already, havn't tried the other ones. Thanks.

 

[black_imperator]

there are many goods ideas in this thread, i think.


If you need some help , I already have some little skills in xml and can improve ^^.

 

[Ekolite]

Ok, cool. I'll take a note of anyone who wants to help and what they can offer, I'll contact you when modding actually starts if what you can do is involved in moding. Also, if anything comes up and you wont be able to help afterall you can just contact me and I'll take you off the list.

So if anyone wants to help, post what you can help with here, also still accepting any ideas, thoughts etc.

 

[blackCat]

I do not know if someone has already spoken about that but
Kol u can check Dragonia 2 mod for an example of a lizardman civ

 

[Ekolite]

Yep, thats where the units are coming from .

You know, I suggest making a new civ and now everyone seems to be doing it. Now we even have a suggestion for an alien whale civ, I mean WTH?

 

[blackCat]

So Kol, finaly will u make a minimod ffh30 including this lizardman civ ??