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Does the Civ V tech tree even make sense?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by DarkSchneider, Jan 3, 2011.

  1. Tlalynet

    Tlalynet Emperor

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    Elenhil,

    Not at all, the beginning of the game would steer the ancient player to ancient techs, it would be primarily power players trying to make an out of the box strategy that grabs out of era techs early. Creating many choices that very from generally good to situationaly good and vary from immediate returns to long term returns. Have a look at the short list I made, Education is the non-liner choice there but it is not substantially worse (or substantially better) than teching in line. It is a good idea in some situations and not in others. In this case if someone wants to focus research on improving research and has lots of spare production to build libraries right away they should go writing, if they need to build an army now but can see in the future they will have the ability to build then education first is better (since they wouldn't be using libraries anyway)

    Different but balanced.

    Cman is off topic trolling, please don't feed the trolls :)

    Moderator Action: And please don't call others trolls. If you feel someone is trolling, report them.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  2. cman2010

    cman2010 King

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    actually civ 3 handled it rather well it was extreamly hard to keep a war going for to long.
     
  3. cman2010

    cman2010 King

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    yes I proved my point, so you resort to calling me a troll. Very sad.

    Moderator Action: As stated above to another poster, please use the report post button, don't respond.
     
  4. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    More techs in the tree would either require cheaper techs or more beakers generated from current sources. Either way it would make beelines stronger and I'd dislike that.

    Civilization games always followed a "western take" on everything, CIV5 is no exception but at least it's more non-western-world friendly. Also connections between techs do not need to make always sense - game balance is the paramount factor.
     
  5. Tlalynet

    Tlalynet Emperor

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    Cman,

    I had no interest in your point, its not even remotely related to the thread topic dealing with the tech tree. You've yet to post anything topical which is why I was asking people not to bother with what you where saying.

    Bibor,

    I generally agree balance is more important than diversity, but I would like a little more of both.
     
  6. cman2010

    cman2010 King

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    I have posted many points read my post instead of just blindly defending your borken game.
     
  7. Elenhil

    Elenhil Warlord

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    Let's see. Education costs about four times more than writing does. You suggest adding a penalty for researching it too early. So it will cost even more. Now, what circumstances do you see justifying spending all these beakers? Building an army, you say? While at the say time denying yourself the opportunity of researching essential military techs like iron working etc. to make your army relevant, right.
     
  8. Oerdin

    Oerdin Deity

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    Like everything else the tech tree was dumbed down (simplified to use Shafer speak) and the result is the game became less interesting and more boring. There is also the problem that several of the techs just don't make much sense.
     
  9. cman2010

    cman2010 King

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    yeah, "simplified"= boring and dumbed down, I hate what they have turned civ into with this crap.
     
  10. Truthy

    Truthy Chatbot

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    It makes perfect sense that scientific progress of the renaissance and early modern times are needed for one to advance to the industrial era. Also, I think it is fine that you are required to fully research most technologies of each era before advancing. This way you don't have lop sided research and game play. All of those technologies you listed were necessary in human progress and development. It is much more realistic. Looking back, did humans construct railroads before colonization began? No. This is because the heavy industry and wealth which a result of colonization were eventually supported with the construction of railroads. You have to look at human history and realize why events happened in their order.
     
  11. JohnnyW

    JohnnyW Gave up on this game

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    Why? :rolleyes:

    Tell me why the tree can't simply take longer to get through? Isn't one of the complaints of this game that teching is way too fast?
     
  12. Truthy

    Truthy Chatbot

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    With just a few libraries you can easily research a technology faster than you can build a warrior.
     
  13. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    just lol
     
  14. JohnnyW

    JohnnyW Gave up on this game

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    just lol to ignoring my question.
     
  15. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Okay.

    At around turn 200 I can reach 200 BPT with 10 cities on Emperor.
    After that I can grow it up exponentially to 1000 BPT at around turn 270, again with same 10 cities.
    With 4 research agreements rolling at all possible times, I'll still be halfway into Modern Era at turn 270 and will reach the end around turn 300.
    CIV5 has 72 techs. 300 turns divided by 72 gives one tech every 4 turns.

    Did CIV4 tech tree last longer than 300 turns?
    It had 93 techs, so not that much more. Yet you could trade one tech for at least one more, sometimes for 5, 6, even 10. A tech discovered in 15 turns, traded for 2 techs, that's not 15 turns of reserach, that's 5 effectively. Techs like alphabet (lets say it took 28 turns to research) could yield 9 techs no problem. That's one tech every 3 turns.

    On the question of how long units take to build. Yes, my best production city can make a fighter plane every 6 turns. My research pace is equal or faster. But 8 cities can make 8 fighters in less than 10 turns. That's 8 fighters vs. one tech. You can build units in more than one city. 8 cities producing nothing but units for 30 turns would make 24 various units.

    24 units is more than you need on a standard map.
    Definitely more than you need to build at once.
    Civilization V requires way less units than civilization IV due to its 1UPT.
    The amount of time needed to build an army of "same effect as a similar army in civ4" is roughly the same.

    Does this answer your question?
     
  16. Ramesses

    Ramesses Ruler. Visionary. Pimp.

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    Are you neglecting to mention that you play on Quick?
     
  17. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    I play on normal speed if its me you're asking :)
     
  18. JohnnyW

    JohnnyW Gave up on this game

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    Yes and no. One of the problems of the tech pace is that you get situations where a medieval unit is obsolete before you can complete it. And nowhere was I comparing civ5 tech pace to civ4.

    You say you have 8 cities that can make 8 fighters in 10 turns. Ok I'll bite. That means you're making 42 hammers/turn in 8 cities out of your 10. Even with factories in all 8 cities that's a 28 hammer base yield. Assuming 2 hammers per pop with a population of 14 (with all river-farmed hills) then yes, you can do that.

    For some reason I think your average build times will be longer than what you've posted above.
     
  19. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Judge for yourself. Attached the turn 270 autosave.
    A screenshot for those who don't have Mesopotamia.

    Over 1000 BPT, and all cities can produce a jet or fighter in 8 or less turns (Kyoto was already building a fighter, so I switched to bomber).

    EDIT: Doh, 4 turns GA. Go to turn 275 please :p
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Yasul

    Yasul Chieftain

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    I don't post on forums very often but I thought I would weigh in with an idea that came to mind while I was reading this thread.

    Instead of having a linear system, what about having a system where you can research "anything" but only if you have the prerequisites for the particular technology already researched.

    Starting at Turn 1, the tech tree would be a list of all the technologies organized by technology type (infrastructure, culture, science, military, economic...or some similar organization). This organization would merely be for convenience so players could more easily locate the desired technology. More complex technologies would be farther down the list of the relevant category. Each technology would show the prerequisite technologies beneath it's own title and description.

    As an example, Railroad would be located fairly far down the infrastructure group. Railroad would require the technologies which make sense...so possibly: The Wheel, Iron Working, Metal Casting, Machinery, and Steam Power. You could research Railroad at any time of your choosing, after having completed the prerequisite technologies.

    A simpler example could be that Construction requires Pottery and Masonry.

    Some technologies could even have an 1 of 2 requirement if it made sense.

    This way you couldn't research complex technologies without having already learned the technologies which would be necessary, but you would still have a lot of freedom to choose what path you wanted through the tech tree. If your civilization was effectively landlocked, you could focus your efforts on pushing for railroad without ever having to research sailing or any other marine technologies.
     

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