Dont buy Civ5 : Dont be the sheep

Status
Not open for further replies.
I love Civ and guess what.....I'm getting the game because it looks like it's going to be great. Not everyone has an axe to grind with 2K.

If we're really getting "screwed" and the game sucks (unlikely) then fine I won't be likely to buy Expacs/DLC/whatever.
 
Do you have any idea how man hours I logged under civ2-civ4? i already preorded civ5. thanks. Madden 2011 should get me right through until then.
 
MW2 gamers say hi and prove your point wrong.

As for Firaxis, if Civ V flops, all it means is that they were bled dry by 2K. Eventually they'd get a job somewhere else, and we'd get something good again.

Civ V is not going to be the best game of all time. Something better will ALWAYS come along. I'm willing to walk.

MW2 was not a PC exclusive, it had all the other platforms to rely on. Regardless, the threat of a boycott did not result in a boycott. The quality of the game was still sufficient enough where people on all platforms bought enough to make it a successful product.

Civ 5 is a PC exclusive product, and a real boycott would be devastating. Settlers 7 definitely suffered at the hands of boycotts, and the small community reflects that even though it's actually a really fun game.
 
Blizzard has done an about face and, due to efforts by the fans, will be changing their plans.

You guys have no idea how much authority you surrender when you dont even try. I hope this will inspire some people to be more actively involved things they claim to care about.
 
Blizzard has done an about face and, due to efforts by the fans, will be changing their plans.

You guys have no idea how much authority you surrender when you dont even try. I hope this will inspire some people to be more actively involved things they claim to care about.

This and every other issue you've brought up does not affect me whatsoever. The slightest bit of effort would be far too much.

I'm so glad blizzard won't think I'm a sheep now. YAY :goodjob:
 
Here is another good blog posting about how the player is not the customer...this time using the comparision of network TV.

http://esc-hatch.blogspot.com/2010/07/who-is-activisionblizzards-customer.html

People..we can sit and do nothing and be a "resource" to be harvested or we can speak up and claim our rights as customers - Players. If you want better games and more control over them then it does matter. If you love Civ, care about its legacy, and dont want to see it turned into facebook or DLC cash machine for stockholders, than it does matter. There are games like Eve online that have legal contract with a customer elected board. I'm not saying we need something like that with Civ..but just about anything is better than the force fed disrespect we are getting now.
 
I'm honestly sickened. Don't hate corporations for the sake of hating.

We have not been disrespected.
 
Here is another good blog posting about how the player is not the customer...this time using the comparision of network TV.

I don't know about other companies or other products, but at 2K Games, the player is the customer. And we're not expanding the community team to market at you - we're expanding so we have resources for you to go to and have a real dialogue.

Our gamers have been my number one priority since I started this gig.
 
As a gamer I'm insulted that because YOU don't like the game, I am therefore a sheep for thinking for myself and preferring it. Screw you buddy.

As a game developer, it sickens me that you'd think we treat or consider our paying customers like that.

I can only conclude that you need to grow up and get over your selfish disappointment with the awesome changes to Civ5.
 
Evrett37, you do realise Civ 5 will be a perfectly complete game without having to 'squander' 3$ on one downloadable civilization, don't you?
 
You know what would be really mind blowing? If you earned yourself some dough and bought yourself a few shares of Activision or 2K.

Shareholders aren't some kind of Giant Death Robot or whatever ridiculous idea you've got in your head. They're mostly just normal people who own shares either directly or through one of any number of publicly traded funds. They read the reports, they listen to the news, and sometimes they even vote on corporate policy.

And, guess what? Companies do what's in the interest of their shareholders because, shocker, shareholders own them. You, a customer, do not. All you did was give them cash once for something. If they go under, you still have your game.

Not the shareholder though. If the company goes under, all the shareholders get is poorer.

So if you want the devs (or, really, the publisher) to be more interested in what you have to say, feel free to put some skin in the game and buy a few shares, then tell them what you think.

Of course, then you'd have to think about what was good for the company as opposed to what was good for you, the customer.

But, if we allow them to build a pasture around us, they'll get +2 food, +1 commerce, and +1 happiness!

Only if they build a road, you nubbin!
 
Businesses make their money by keeping their customers happy.

What a lot of people don’t realize (or choose to forget) is that the player is not the customer.

The players of Blizzard games (or any company’s games for that matter) are no more the customer than the sheep are the shepherds customer.

...

The stockholders of the company are the real customers.

When you are wondering why in the hell they come up with ideas remember a lot depends on your point of view.



This fails elementary logic. Look at the propositions: 1. Businesses make their money by keeping the customers happy. 2. The stockholders are the customers.

So the conclusion must be: 3. Businesses make their money by keeping the stockholders happy.

This is, however, nonsense. The stockholders bought the stock long ago, when the company first went public. There is *no* money to be made by keeping the stockholders happy..even if the stockholders buy more stock, they will buy it from other stockholders, not from the company itself. The company has already sold all of its stock.

In reality, the stockholders are the owners of the company and want to make money. They will make money if they keep the customers happy. If the customers aren't happy, neither the shareholders nor the employees will be happy.

So there's no way around keeping the customers happy.

QED.
 
This fails elementary logic. Look at the propositions: 1. Businesses make their money by keeping the customers happy. 2. The stockholders are the customers.

So the conclusion must be: 3. Businesses make their money by keeping the stockholders happy.

This is, however, nonsense. The stockholders bought the stock long ago, when the company first went public. There is *no* money to be made by keeping the stockholders happy..even if the stockholders buy more stock, they will buy it from other stockholders, not from the company itself. The company has already sold all of its stock.

In reality, the stockholders are the owners of the company and want to make money. They will make money if they keep the customers happy. If the customers aren't happy, neither the shareholders nor the employees will be happy.

So there's no way around keeping the customers happy.

QED.

Not quite.

See, while the company doesn't make money per se on having its share price go up, it does get some fairly fabulous results out of its book value (this is way more important for banks than for most companies except when the company is close to breaching a debt covenant). But more important than that is the simple fact that most higher ups on the management teams of most companies tend to get reimbursed with stocks or stock options.

So they have a vested interest in seeing share prices go up which is why, for the past half decade or so, 1/3rd of earnings per share growth were from corporate stock buy backs*.

If the company makes money, it spends a large chunk of that money buying back equity, which leads to growth in share price which means that equity stakeholders can sell for a profit.

However, if equity holders are mad, they can do all sorts of things. Like, for instance, demand a change in management, swap out board members, vote against acquisition decisions or even reject a payroll plan for the management team (not common, has happened).


So, you're right on the broad framework that the opinion of customers is valuable, and that equity stakeholders don't often provide the profit of the firm (cough IPOs cough). But you're tots wrong on the relationship between shareholders and corporations, so I figured I'd clean that up.



*Also because dividends are taxed unfavorably relative to capital gains, be sure to phone your Congressperson about that as dividend payments are far more conducive to long termism, shareholder activism and good corporate governance than the short termist world of rapid turnover we have today. After all, if you only make a buck by sticking with it over the long haul, you tend to be more interested in the company making good long term decisions!
 
Someone just turned 15 I'm guessing? Just read 1981 for the first time? Well, congratulations. You yell all you want, Billy Idol. Just remember that your thoughts, your conclusions, your fighting the Good Fight: they are unique! You are the first person to discover the issue of a capitalist market! You are a unique and original butterfly of thought!

Then you turn 21.
 
If you want to see mainly PC oriented studios like Firaxis crash and burn then by all means continue to try to get people to boycott. I think it's extremely silly though. Firaxis tries to deliver what their customers want, and the fact is that when it comes to game design you really can't please everybody.
Customers want to have to apply to Steam? :lol:

I'm going to buy 2 copies of Civ5 to spite you.
Sure. :rolleyes:

And we're not expanding the community team to market at you - we're expanding so we have resources for you to go to and have a real dialogue.
This expansion thing seems not to include Firaxis, does it? :mischief:

Furthermore, if you want to have a real dialogue, what about answering the questions raised in this thread "Civilization 5 Steamworks questions/concerns for inclusion in the FAQ"?

Seems to have started on May, 25th. Answers still outstanding. Any answers, that is.

And, guess what? Companies do what's in the interest of their shareholders because, shocker, shareholders own them. You, a customer, do not. All you did was give them cash once for something. If they go under, you still have your game.
Well, in the case of Civ5 we seem to have a third party involved, don't we?
If they go under, what about "having your game"?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom