Dont buy Civ5 : Dont be the sheep

[evrett37]

You missed the boat mate...I tried pointing out the 2k employees shell game to the people here MONTHS ago...nobody cared. So they'll get the game they deserve..and its future incarnations now that these doors have been opened to our wallets. Well..not mine.

If you want to productively blame someone where you might have a chance to make a difference...turn your anger to the CivFantatics leadership..who have been flaccid and uninvolved when, as possessors of a legitimate pulpit, they had the most responsibility to speak out.

 

[2K Elizabeth]

It is sometimes difficult to remain civil when it seems that two people are talking in different rooms.
I give 2K Elizabeth slack here, because she appears to have handed off this forum to Greg, and maynot have kept aware of how few posts Greg has made, or how little content those he made contained.
Having said that, It seems to me that the umbrage given to Elizabeth may be justified, as she should have read over the last few weeks of the thread to bring herself up to speed. Her comments seem to indicate she did not, and if so, well, Elizabeth (rhetoric questions) do Greg's postings seem to answer the valid questions asked here? Has he adequately interacted with this forum to explain what he could, In short, has he helped or has his appearance of stonewalling exacerbated the frustration of not getting answers.
I leave those questions with you.
Moderator: If this is considered objectionable blaming and/or trolling, you have my apologies, but I think this honest questioning of Greg's actions is needed.

I think explaining roles a bit might help clarify things for you. I oversee all our interactive communications and channels, and Greg's here to focus specifically on Civ. While he's out of the office, I'm here to help out with anything you need until he gets back. I won't be answering questions he's already working on, but I think I can set the expectation for you guys that nothing happens immediately. We have a plan - and we are going to outline features, multiplayer, modding - but we have a lot of time between now and September 21. While you may want all the info right now, that's not going to happen - we need time to write it, record it, create it.

I think you already know that hostility won't get you any further in this situation, but if you are angry at me because I can't remove Steam for you, or because I won't outline everything about a feature you want to know about right now (or because the specs aren't finalized yet) then I'm not going to be that much help you to.

I've spent the past four years of my life giving gamers the information they want about our titles, and Greg's going to be doing that for everything Civ. We still have well over two months until release - given what we've already shown you in the past couple weeks, think how much more is coming in the future.

 

[Dale]

I think this is a valid point - if you guys feel like you aren't involved enough in the conversation, let me or Greg know and we'll work on that for you. I know we're already working on getting Q&As and articles together for some of the topics people have mentioned, but they aren't live yet - but if there's something in particular you want to see, speak up so we don't miss it.

Elizabeth, also note that AGAINST ALL PROMISES, no other fan forum has had 2K interaction. This is very disappointing.

 

[Rusty Edge]

evrett37 have you tried this?

http://www.dalecarnegie.com/golden_book.jsp?keycode=google06&WT.srch=1&WT.mc_id=G_Brand

Seriously, it could spare you a lot of stress and frustration in your life.

 

[Dale]

If you want to productively blame someone where you might have a chance to make a difference...turn your anger to the CivFantatics leadership..who have been flaccid and uninvolved when, as possessors of a legitimate pulpit, they had the most responsibility to speak out.

Now you want Thunderfall to bite off the hand that feeds him? That's insane!

I think you should admit to yourself that Steam will not be removed, and the 2K posters will remain talking in the mode they previously have, and give up on Civ and leave. Unless of course you want people to think that you're here to troll, flame and have 15 minutes of fame?

 

[2K Elizabeth]

It is sometimes difficult to remain civil when it seems that two people are talking in different rooms.
I give 2K Elizabeth slack here, because she appears to have handed off this forum to Greg, and maynot have kept aware of how few posts Greg has made, or how little content those he made contained.
Having said that, It seems to me that the umbrage given to Elizabeth may be justified, as she should have read over the last few weeks of the thread to bring herself up to speed. Her comments seem to indicate she did not, and if so, well, Elizabeth (rhetoric questions) do Greg's postings seem to answer the valid questions asked here? Has he adequately interacted with this forum to explain what he could, In short, has he helped or has his appearance of stonewalling exacerbated the frustration of not getting answers.
I leave those questions with you.
I think this honest questioning of Greg's actions is needed.

Elizabeth, also note that AGAINST ALL PROMISES, no other fan forum has had 2K interaction. This is very disappointing.

I've stopped by Apolyton a bit, but you're right, we don't get them all. I'm generally not around on the forums in a regular capacity so I can work on other programs for you guys, although you'll see me on the 2K Forums after 10 PM most nights when I finally have a chance to catch up.

Best place to get us when things are busy is the 2K Forums, but where else would you like us to be?

 

[bjbrains]

Now you want Thunderfall to bite off the hand that feeds him? That's insane!

I think you should admit to yourself that Steam will not be removed, and the 2K posters will remain talking in the mode they previously have, and give up on Civ and leave. Unless of course you want people to think that you're here to troll, flame and have 15 minutes of fame?

I thought that already happened with that so-called 'protest' that he never followed through on despite all kinds of promises.

 

[Dale]

I've stopped by Apolyton a bit, but you're right, we don't get them all. I'm generally not around on the forums in a regular capacity so I can work on other programs for you guys, although you'll see me on the 2K Forums after 10 PM most nights when I finally have a chance to catch up.

Best place to get us when things are busy is the 2K Forums, but where else would you like us to be?

Well, as a minimum I would hope the sites listed on Civilization5.com's fanpage would be included:

CivFanatics, WePlayCiv, Apolyton, CivPlayers, CivForm.de & Civilized.de.

 

[2K Elizabeth]

Well, as a minimum I would hope the sites listed on Civilization5.com's fanpage would be included:

CivFanatics, WePlayCiv, Apolyton, CivPlayers, CivForm.de & Civilized.de.

I'll tell Greg to try and stop by there more often - but remember, he's only one guy. He's either writing you info or posting on the forums - but the more posting, the less info gathering happens.

 

[Hail]

You missed the boat mate...I tried pointing out the 2k employees shell game to the people here MONTHS ago...nobody cared. So they'll get the game they deserve..and its future incarnations now that these doors have been opened to our wallets. Well..not mine.

If you want to productively blame someone where you might have a chance to make a difference...turn your anger to the CivFantatics leadership..who have been flaccid and uninvolved when, as possessors of a legitimate pulpit, they had the most responsibility to speak out.

what boat? Jedem das Seine

buy things you like (not will like or should like) and do not buy things you do not like. if you want to change the world start with yourself.

P.S. did you really expect on this fanboy and 2k-affiliated forum to receive support for any boycott or protest?

I thought that already happened with that so-called 'protest' that he never followed through on despite all kinds of promises.

you paid him or something? he owes you nothing.


P.S.S. will there be a demo of civ5?? so i can taste forehand the pure awesomeness of the undoubtedly the best strategy game of 2010?

 

[The_J]

Well, as a minimum I would hope the sites listed on Civilization5.com's fanpage would be included:

I guess if he would reading all the forums, we would not be able to do anything else.

(note: a sarcastic answer to this will maybe get infracted)

CivForum.de

Fixed .

Civilized.de

...is a news page, not a forum .
And: oh, ColdFever seems to have come through his heart OP well enough, there was an update for the last month today.

 

[VladDrakken]

Allow me to say to the person who started this topic, WELCOME TO CAPITALISM!

That's how things work. For not just video games, but also for all games, for all products, for all things in the market. So if we love Civ, don't buy Civ 5? Wouldn't that mean the company will lose money, which will mean more jobs will be lost, and thus the game series itself maybe dropped? GREAT IDEA! Why buy a new game which is set to improve the series that we may likely enjoy when we can just play the games we already have. Screw the people who actually like making games losing their jobs, its US who should matter!

If there's anything I hate its people who think they can stand out by saying "DON'T BE SHEEP!" but people who follow these people end up becoming sheep by spreading that message.

Now that I'm don't ranting, allow me to explain how capitalism works. We give the corporation money for a product, they give it to us, we like it, it increases our chance of buying a sequel or other products of theirs. We don't like it, we can stop buying. The company is forced to find new ways to get us to buy and which we will likely either return or stay away from them.

Now let me also explain sheep. They are usually people who want to follow someone or something cause its popular or need other people to tell them what to do. Hence why I said "Dont be sheep" can easily make sheep out of the people who follow it trying to stand out and likely become popular for it(not that its bad, but if you want to stand out you need to actually stand out, not try following a fad). I'm not going to buy Civ 5 cause its popular, I'm buying it cause I liked the Civ games and it looks good.

I can understand that companies only want to make money and such but like I said, that's capitalism for you. We don't have to like it, but we have the right also to not. We have free will and choice of what we want to buy and to show I'm not a sheep as you call, I'm going to ignore listening to what a few people say I should do and buy the game.

Were not forced to buy the game, but neither are we forced to listen to people who say not to.

 

[bjbrains]

what boat? Jedem das Seine

buy things you like (not will like or should like) and do not buy things you do not like. if you want to change the world start with yourself.

P.S. did you really expect on this fanboy and 2k-affiliated forum to receive support for any boycott or protest?


you paid him or something? he owes you nothing.


P.S.S. will there be a demo of civ5?? so i can taste forehand the pure awesomeness of the undoubtedly the best strategy game of 2010?

He made a series of posts over a week plus talking all about how he was *going* to protest at 2K. He then blew it off without even posting an excuse, he just disappeared for a week plus.

 

[Commander Bello]

Now that I'm don't ranting, allow me to explain how capitalism works.

Well, your .... ahem... ah... "explanation" speaks for itself, if that comment will be allowed.

So if we love Civ, don't buy Civ 5? Wouldn't that mean the company will lose money, which will mean more jobs will be lost, and thus the game series itself maybe dropped? GREAT IDEA!

We give the corporation money for a product, they give it to us, we like it, it increases our chance of buying a sequel or other products of theirs. We don't like it, we can stop buying. The company is forced to find new ways to get us to buy and which we will likely either return or stay away from them.

So, not buying the game is sarcastically called "great idea" and you even point out how much risk this would put on the company and by this, on the continuation of the franchise.

On the other hand - as you are "explaining" - not buying the game is the way to make the company aware that something did not fit customers' expectations? (And, btw, wasn't this exactly what the OP told us to do?)

So, would you be so kind as to explain in more detail, where your problem with the OP's request is?

Were not forced to buy the game, but neither are we forced to listen to people who say not to.

Exactly.
You are not forced to listen to somebody else.
The forum allows you to ignore people you don't want to read.
Most mice have a scroll wheel to make postings we are not agreeing with disappear very quickly.
And finally we have the chance to select threads by their titles.

You haven't made use of any of these, so I may assume that in fact you wanted to listen to the OP - even more since you did not hesitate to release a full-fledged "explanation" of capitalism.

 

[evrett37]

I think you already know that hostility won't get you any further in this situation, but if you are angry at me because I can't remove Steam for you, or because I won't outline everything about a feature you want to know about right now (or because the specs aren't finalized yet) then I'm not going to be that much help you to.

I've spent the past four years of my life giving gamers the information they want about our titles, and Greg's going to be doing that for everything Civ. We still have well over two months until release - given what we've already shown you in the past couple weeks, think how much more is coming in the future.

Moderator Action: *snip* Stop the flaming.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[evrett37]

Now you want Thunderfall to bite off the hand that feeds him? That's insane!

I think you should admit to yourself that Steam will not be removed, and the 2K posters will remain talking in the mode they previously have, and give up on Civ and leave. Unless of course you want people to think that you're here to troll, flame and have 15 minutes of fame?

There is still time to educate people in how much of a threat the marketing behavior of 2k/Firaxis is to the civ legacy and gaming in general. And yes I expect community leaders to erm lead. To put the game first.

 

[kayapo]

A father talking to his kids about internet drama? Discussing Blizzard or WoW?

This is a weird world we are living in.

 

[Silvestris]

(...)Regardless we have every right to be hostile to you for pretending to be a community rep when you are just the webs version of a sleazy car salesman. Well I'll tell you where you can stick your giant inflatable Baboon!

You are not preparing answers for us - that doesnt take a month+. You are preparing "exclusives" or waiting for who ever lined your pockets for the right to release that info first. You cant even answer that honestly.

Its creatures like you that are in charge of the civ legacy now...and since we as fans have chosen not to even come to the game - the legacy with be exploited and dragged through the mud.

-

And "We" as fans, have choosen nothing, its not a We. I am glad what 2K do here, and I hope they will carry on.

 

[2K Elizabeth]

Hostility solves a lot actually and if more people reacted in such a away instead of swallowing this "we can all get along" fantasy the things people died for in "hostile" bloody wars and revolutions would be slipping away. Before the baby boomers/hippis screwed everything up people in the greatest generation got fired when they did a bad job, were called ******ed, not "special" and got the whooping they deserved when they misbehaved. I've spent 4 years working with drug addicts and their children and you my dear sound a lot like an entitled government employee. God forbid anyone judge the quality of your work or suggest you plain suck at what you do. Your prob a minority or single mom or something unfirable. Regardless we have every right to be hostile to you for pretending to be a community rep when you are just the webs version of a sleazy car salesman. Well I'll tell you where you can stick your giant inflatable Baboon!

You are not preparing answers for us - that doesnt take a month+. You are preparing "exclusives" or waiting for who ever lined your pockets for the right to release that info first. You cant even answer that honestly. Since Firaxis clearly no longer has any say in its product I dont think there is anything wrong with kicking 2K out of this nest.

Its creatures like you that are in charge of the civ legacy now...and since we as fans have chosen not to even come to the game - the legacy with be exploited and dragged through the mud.

A lot of people on these boards know me, have seen or heard me online, and a bunch of you have met me in person. I think they can attest to me not being what you say, but if you ever get a spare moment, you might want to google me and find out for yourself.

As for your ideas of what hostility can solve here, I don't think much of anything - particularly since we aren't in a bloody war! But if you have a question, let me know - that way I can do my job for you.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

A lot of people on these boards know me, have seen or heard me online, and a bunch of you have met me in person. I think they can attest to me not being what you say, but if you ever get a spare moment, you might want to google me and find out for yourself.

As for your ideas of what hostility can solve here, I don't think much of anything - particularly since we aren't in a bloody war! But if you have a question, let me know - that way I can do my job for you.

Seriously, Elizabeth, I wouldn't bother answering any more of evrett's posts-he has consistently proven himself to be rude & obnoxious-to you & to everyone who doesn't agree with him-& it really does leave me wondering why he bothers hanging around the Civ5 Forum given that he apparently has no plans on buying the game.

I, for one, neither hate nor love Steam-but I do recognize that online registration is the way things are these days. I also know that, as a multi-player, having a "one-stop-shop" for Mods, patches & Multi-player lobby will add a convenience factor for me. Now if I *had* to be online & logged into Steam-ALL THE TIME-in order to simply use the game, then I'd probably hate it too-but I've yet to hear anyone provide proof that this is how its going to be. Heck, the way these people talk, you'd think they're afraid that even a single use of Steam-during registration-will somehow steal their souls!

I also think that some of our RUDER members here need to remember that there are very FEW gaming companies who have so consistently remained in contact with their fan-base than those from 2K/Firaxis. Being obnoxious, though, is a guaranteed way to ensure that this stops being the case!

Aussie.