Double Your Pleasure

[Turner]

I've know about that bug forever now, at least since 1.21 came out, and I STILL don't build the walls. Smart, huh?

 

[Mark Young]

Back again.

It's 50bc in my game and I have just researched what ever it was that lets you trade maps, so I traded maps with all the other civs, 10 of them, and noticed that 8 of them have only built 1 city!!
It's not due to space as 4 of them have wide open land to expand into.
Why have these civs not even put down a second city?

These very same civs are pathetically behind in the tech race and are just begging for me to nab their victory locations.

I'm playing on warlord level as it was suggested to play on a lower level than I was used to play, normally I would play on regent/monarch.

 

[Turner]

If they don't have enough resources to get to Pop 3, they won't be able to build settlers. I had this happen to one of my mods way back when. A settler started up on Tundra, never had a chance.

I've never seen the AI not expand, except where it couldn't. Can you post a couple of screenies, or a save?

 

[Mark Young]

I 'll post a save.....

 

[Bamspeedy]

These very same civs are pathetically behind in the tech race and are just begging for me to nab their victory locations.

Since you mentioned victory point locations, I have to also ask you if you are also playing with the 'regicide' victory conditions. The AI protects his kings way too much, and builds a whole ton of defenders (sometimes, 12 of them) before they build their first settler.

It could be that they kept trying to build defenders, but didn't have a large enough unit support for them, thus having to keep disbanding them (over, and over, and over again).

 

[Mark Young]

Yeh I have victory location, space ship, conquest, mass regicide and capture the princess all selected for this game.

Cant upload the save, having problems. I'll try again...
Nope have to try again tomorrow.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Investigate their cities and see how many defenders they have and what they currently are building. do they have any land developed? (worker jobs)

The AI doesn't handle the PTW 'extra' victory conditions very well.

 

[cromagnon]

I'm not sure if these have been reported to you about the 1.10 build.

1. Ironclads are "sink in ocean" in the spreadsheet, but I can't physically move one into the ocean. Not sure if this was on purpose.

2. After building the Supreme Court, I can no longer build District Courthouses in any city, even though a courthouse appears on the improvement list.

 

[Mark Young]

ok I have checked some cities

these are the ones that aren't expanding

1) Celts- 8 spearman and building another one, no city improvements,workers or access to resources
2) Gerany - 11 spearman and building another one, no city improvemants, workers but has iron in city square
3) Zulu - 8 impi + building another one, no workers, improvements and iron just outside of city square.
4) Viking - 8 units + building another one, no inprovements or resources.

These 2 civs are doing well

1) England - 36 units + a couple of wonders, all queens still in the capital.
2) Spanish - 9 units with improvements and only 1 queen and the princess in the capital.

The other civs I dont know yet.
is there a percentage of units per queen that the ai likes to get too first before building workers? I saw the indians moving their king units and each one was escorted by a spearman, there were 4 spearman and 4 kings.

 

[Bamspeedy]

English and Spanish are both commercial civs aren't they? so their starting worker had something to do at the start (building roads), so they didn't join their workers into the capital, leaving them with no workers, like all the other non-commercial AI.

and since they (non-commercial AI) were in the 'build lots of defense' frame of mind, they never built another worker, thus was severely lacking in commerce/resource/access to luxuries and just doesn't have the unit support to support all those units. So they kept building them, and then have to disband them.

I would say if you play with regicide/capture the princess/victory points, etc. you should go in the editor and give the AI some extra free unit support costs if you play on the lower levels.

 

[pdescobar]

Cro-mag: Just to confirm on the District Courthouse issue, those cities do have fresh water in the radius, yes? District Courthouses are like Nuclear Plants in terms of water needs, because it was the only way to potentially limit the number built.

 

[Isak]

@Sir Eric:

Could you email me a savegame or two - I would like to see what happened to the poor things

 

[cromagnon]

@pdescobar: I didn't know that fact about district courthouses, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Save

Look at cities like Mecca and Damascus, on fresh water, yet no DC option. Again, this is after building Supreme Court.

As a side note, the Commercial Port I built in Coventry does not seem to have any maintenance costs (and right-clicking gives the "maintenance 1-2" pop-up).

EDIT: Saw your explanation for that one.

 

[pdescobar]

@cromag: The commercial port is a "commercial" installation (imagine that ) and so your Adam Smith's Trading Company takes care of the maintenance cost. Should you for some reason abandon Mecca like I just did for confirmation, the maintenance will return.

As for the district courthouses, that's very interesting. I abandoned Bangkok too to get rid of the Supreme Court and hand-built a courthouse in Damascus and was able to build a DC. Perhaps the game doesn't count freebie buildings as prereqs? This bears further investigating...

 

[Bamspeedy]

Yes, I can confirm from previous mod attempts I have made, that if you have a wonder give an improvement in all cities, that any other improvements that requires that building can't be built.

The game doesn't recognize that the city already has that building, unless you built the building manually before getting it 'free' from the wonder.

I think this is because when you manually build something, the game keeps track of what date it gets built (notice you never get the doubling of culture from Obelisks if you build the Pyramids), because the city never registers what date it got that building.
I know if you use a save game editor you can find out when non-culture buildings were built (like barracks), so that leads me to think this process is what screws it up.

 

[pdescobar]

Alrighty, thanks Bamspeedy. This goes into the "Civ3 bug, let's hope it gets fixed in Conquests" pile then

EDIT: Did some checking, this is a known issue and my guess is that it won't be changed. Quoting the vanilla readme:

Fixed v1.21f:
...
* Fixed building prerequisites to allow buildings to require buildings that are bestowed by other buildings but only if 1 is required. If more than 1 or required, they must actually be built.

Since the DC requires 3 courthouses rather than simply one in the city, it falls under the second clause.

 

[Mark Young]

Ok isak I'll post you a save

That didn't work, try again


(http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Dyp_Egyptians,_4000_BC1.SAV)

edit: The save is where I am currently at at the moment. I haven't decided if I will continue with the game or start a new one with out mass regicide

 

[Isak]

Originally posted by pdescobar
EDIT: Did some checking, this is a known issue and my guess is that it won't be changed. Quoting the vanilla readme:


Since the DC requires 3 courthouses rather than simply one in the city, it falls under the second clause.

You're right, it most likely won't be changed. We've had similar problems with other buildings, and the approach has so far been, that we add in a second type of the building (let's call it Local Courts) and then let the wonder grant that, while retaining the Courthouse requirement for the District Courthouse. We may do something similar for the Courthouse, if we can be sure that the effects of the Local Courts and Courthouses would be cumulative.

@Sir Eric: Thanks, I'll take a look at it this weekend

 

[pdescobar]

Originally posted by Isak
You're right, it most likely won't be changed. We've had similar problems with other buildings, and the approach has so far been, that we add in a second type of the building (let's call it Local Courts) and then let the wonder grant that, while retaining the Courthouse requirement for the District Courthouse. We may do something similar for the Courthouse, if we can be sure that the effects of the Local Courts and Courthouses would be cumulative.

Assuming that "Resistant to Corruption" was a typo for "Reduces Corruption" in the email zulu9812 posted @ CDG, the effect is cumulative.

 

[Xero Tyraon]

ok i am new to the whole mod thing with civ3 ptw.... now i installed it into the civ3ptw/Scenarios folder.... but what do i do then.... can someone help me pleaaase?