Double Your Pleasure

[Kal-el]

Rory,

Currently the most futuristic unit is the Mobile Infantry unit that is available at the very end of the tech tree. Based on the tree underconstruction the mod really doesn't delve into possible future techs. I threw the mobile infantry in there just because I really loved that unit and the US is currently working on something that would incorporate a hard shell body armor with advanced weaponry and stealth technology that is being predicted to be field tested by 2010.

If we could add an era I would be all over adding a future era to the mod, but that is not currently possible.

Harrier,

That Train Unit is VERY interesting. I would definitely consider it if it could be restricted to roads. But will think about it some more.

Dingocat85,

I will look at the Gutenberg's Bible/Buddha cost issue. The current situation is a bit off, you are right.

Chaoticwanderer,

Are you asking about having different versions of the map based on different time periods. That sounds more like something in line for a scenario.

 

[kingjoshi]

Kal-el,

If there are a lot of resources on your map, then it's because it's realistic, as far as I know. And I would prefer that. You or someone else can use your no-resource map to create a separate version that might be more "in-tuned" for the game.

If the map is realistic, then it's easier for me to deal with certain things though certain aspects of the game be different from what I would get on a random map. However, if the map is not realistic and it ends up being different from a random map or from my expectations, then it's less bearable.

 

[Kal-el]

I think I will put together a version of the DyP map that has fewer food resources.

As for the strategic and luxury resources, there will eventually (once PTW comes out) be up to 32 playable civs on the map. I do not intend to increase the number of resoures at that point, so I think you will find things better balanced.

It is hard to create a map that is balanced for any number of civs. One option for people is to use the clean version of the map and then use the editor to randomly place the resources.

 

[Harrier]

Originally posted by RobO


Send it to me and I'll check if I can incorporate it into the "official" sheet.

Here it is (I hope - first time trying to add a file to the post)

The file is the original Excel file with one sheet added at the begining.

The sheet is called Imp & Won (2)

Changes:

Some collumns deleted - so it fits across a page.

Some column sizes shortened - ditto

Left/Right print margins reduced slightlt - ditto



Changed benefit (red) H to (red) U - [reduce happiness] - my B/W printer cann't tell the difference.

Sheet set to print in Landscape.

Print area does not include space ship parts. - Keeps it to 4 pages and they are obvious anyway - all begib with SS.

Split the list into: Imp, Won. SmWon.

Sorted on the benefit column (last) i.e. $, L, M, + etc.


Reason : I did this because when playing I wanted a quick reference to see what to build to increase a particular benefit - shield , money etc. On my small screen the symbols in the build list, late at night, aftera few glasses of water are not all that clear.



This is update to 0,84.

The quick ref pages look better.

I had 4 downloads of 0.83 (posted 2 days before it changed)

The only difference is a new sheet (Imp & Wond (2). edited to print out in landscape as a quick ref guide to the improvement to choose.


When the real xls file is changed I am happy to alter my quick ref page. But only if I get feedback on this thread.

Note: all other sheets are exactly the same as the original. The only difference is the addition of the first sheet, which is to be printed. (4 pages)

 

[Kault]

Greetings & Felicitations!

Kal-El. I've been gaming for a good many years now, but have only played DYP since v.47. I just wanted to say that since playing DYP, the thought of plain vanilla C3 is anathema to me. You've obviously put a great deal of work and love into this mod, but it is certainly worth it. Bravo!

I play on huge worlds, and have have not had the mod lock up on me the way straight C3 did in the endgame. This is nice after all those hours of work, errr, play.

I have not played a game through to finish because I am usually dominating by late industrial, and there's always a new version to download In my most recent .795 game the game DID crash at the end of the industrial error, pointing to a sound.dll error.

I'd like to help in some small way. If you like I can send saves to you. Forgive me if this has already been covered, but I skipped the first 79 pages of the thread. I'd love to see this game played in a 'Democracy" setting. With all the additional build choices, the factions would have a lot more to debate about.

One thing I would like to observe is that this game seems easier than vanilla C3. I say this because I have played a goodly number of vanilla and DYP games at regent, migrating to monarch as I played DYP. By the time my most recent game crashed, I had been in a dominant position since the start of the industrial age, and felt that in a huge world I should move to emporer. (Perhaps my dominancy was due to receiving a tribe from a goody hut practically at the start.) Besides watching the computer make really stupid build decisions (observed when establishing embassies), the most glaring AI deficiency seems to be in determing rally points. A number of times the Aztecs had significant forces close to vulnerable cities, but they backed off to go after some other distant target. Or they would be at my gates, declare war on another civ, and pull the troops away just before the attack. This general ineffectiveness allowed me to risk the strategy of weak military - tech rush without much chance of getting whacked.

Once again, congratulations and thanks for developing a superior game.

 

[ChaoticWanderer]

i found the easiest way to be dominating is to....

build cities fast as possible multiple clans or what not.

if you build one defensive and one offensive in each town and build lots of towns then the civ thinks youa re very powerful and by the time you get anywhere near the normal attacking age all civs are scared ****less of you and most of their countires are in total awe of yours.

not only that but if you buiod multiple cities fast you get a huge tax base faster and can learn more tech faster.

the key is to trade when you can and BUILD

i use the 5 wide. from a city i move 5 in each dirrection unless city is there and build city then when i reach another civ i work around thema nd build in the inner citites all the cultural stuff i can moving it outward til i swallow the other civs without fighting. every now and then things will mes this up like where you start or what not but it usually works well.

PS> msot important tech is wheel to be able to build roads and get mroe gold. and items

 

[kingjoshi]

I take 3 steps in each direction. i guess that would be 4-wide. I'm going to try a little more war-mongering and monarchy. Usually, I just get Democracy and stick with the the whole game. Personally, I don't know if the "higher" forms of government are worth it.

 

[Kal-el]

Kault,

Welcome to the thread. Always good to add another convert to the Mod.

Save games are always welcome. Crashes can be sent to Isak.

The build problems should be somewhat fixed after 1.29 and whatever version of the mod came out right after that. Unfortunately that was the time that i had to step away from the mod for a while so not sure what the time frame is for things around that.

But 1.29 was supposed to adjust the AI build choices and we tried to fix that at the same time.

Clearly there are still areas that need to be adjusted with the mod. Right now most of my work has been toward getting the early game down right. I think we are almost there.

Kingjoshi,

what do you think can be done to make the later governments worth it. Think both ways, what can be done to the earlier govts and what can be done to the later govts?

Possibly change the Constitution from a small wonder that acts as a "Palace" and change it to a Wonder that gives Court Houses in all cities. I am strongly leaning towards this option. I think it should make the later stages a bit tougher.

I am also planning on having more wonders go obsolete with later versions becoming available down the line. This should allow a cv that failed to build the wonder earlier catch up, hopefully.

Make sure to add your tips to the Strategy Guide.

Anyway, thats enough for now.

 

[Kault]

Well, .83 is much tougher, although playing on Emporer doesn't help. Despite a fabulous opening position, with flood plains and mountains, an oasis in one next to the city, natives on grassland and a goody hut that popped The Wheel in 4000 B.C., by 2300 BC, I had run into 5 civs and could tell two things.
1. This version is very different, with no egalitarianism rush and no early mining.
2. Venturing into an unknown mod at such a numerical disadvantage is an excercise in futility. Back to Monarch it is, Sir.

If anyone would like to try this position, I'll be happy to upload the file.

 

[RobO]

Originally posted by Harrier
Here it is (I hope - first time trying to add a file to the post)

Reason : I did this because when playing I wanted a quick reference to see what to build to increase a particular benefit - shield , money etc. On my small screen the symbols in the build list, late at night, aftera few glasses of water are not all that clear.

I looked at your sheet and fiddled around with it a bit. The idea is good, but it will be too much work for me to incorporate it in the official sheet and keep it up-to-date. The best way to do it would be to write a macro to generate the info page(s) and I don't have time for that.

I suggest you keep it updated yourself and post it if others are interested as well.

 

[kingjoshi]

Kault,

I'd be happy to try that. I've never played higher than monarch, so that should be interesting

RobO,

I tried version 0.82. To be fair, I played again as the Zulus on Kal-el's earth map. I noticed the difference with the limited city size and limited building. However, I don't think it's boring. One does need to adjust to the settings. But since I know where everyone is, I can just send my rangers there and get the advantage on communications and world maps. This time around, I was doing better than before.

Now, I'll play on some random maps now and see how that goes. Should be a whole new "ball" game.

 

[Rory_20_uk]

Kal-El - was looking through the tech tree yesterday, and I came up with some (hopefully) relevant ideas:
1) Weaving is in a rather odd place. I would have thought that urbanisation would be a more sensible place to put it (as the towns grow, the skill base increases)
2) Polyetheism to Elephant training? I would have thought that Horse Training would be more sensible
3) Crop rotation to invention? This is rather odd IMHO
4)Pharmaceuticals is available far too early. I think that true drug stores that helpe rather than hindered the customers only came about in the late 19th, early 20th centary. Possibly an apocethary upgrding to a Drug store would be possible?
5) Ecology and the other related bologics sciences would be better together. I don't think that recycling would help with plastics either. Possibly genetics, but even then the link is somewhat tenuous.
6) I would have thought that computers would have had a more wide ranging effect. Certainly smart weapons would require computers.
7) And finally, wold it be possible to have an upgrade to a coastal fortress, as I find the the coastal fortress is not much cop by itself.

 

[RobO]

Thanks, kingjoshi, that's appreciated. Meanwhile the chiefdom / tile penalty issue has been resolved (I caved in under pressure with some conditions attached), but it's still useful to get a comparison btw. the world map and randommaps and see how v0.82 plays out.

It takes forever to get to 300 posts

 

[Harrier]

Originally posted by RobO

I looked at your sheet and fiddled around with it a bit. The idea is good, but it will be too much work for me to incorporate it in the official sheet and keep it up-to-date. The best way to do it would be to write a macro to generate the info page(s) and I don't have time for that.

I suggest you keep it updated yourself and post it if others are interested as well.

I'd be happy to do that.

As for macros -I've not used them in Excel. Last time I wrote one was in the old 123 program. I'll give it a try though, you need a relaxing hobby after working at Civ3.

Would you prefer me to produce a seperate xls file with just the info pages, or keep it as it is - an extra sheet added to your file.

 

[RobO]

Harrier, suit yourself. I suppose a separate file makes for a simpler download but extra work for you.

 

[Kal-el]

Originally posted by Rory_20_uk
Kal-El - was looking through the tech tree yesterday, and I came up with some (hopefully) relevant ideas:

Please look at the new tech relationships that I posted earlier (page 65 or 66)

1) Weaving is in a rather odd place. I would have thought that urbanisation would be a more sensible place to put it (as the towns grow, the skill base increases)

Once people had domesticated animals, such as sheep, they used the fibers collected from those animals to produce clothes.

2) Polyetheism to Elephant training? I would have thought that Horse Training would be more sensible

This was mainly influenced by Civ2, which allowed War Elephants with Polytheism. It is virtually impossible to connect everything to all the techs that would actually be required. Try it, I am going through the struggle currently.

3) Crop rotation to invention? This is rather odd IMHO

Don't worry, things have been changed. Crop Rotation has been moved to the end of the First Age and Invention remains in the Second Age. Invention will now require Engineering and Guilds.

4)Pharmaceuticals is available far too early. I think that true drug stores that helpe rather than hindered the customers only came about in the late 19th, early 20th centary. Possibly an apocethary upgrding to a Drug store would be possible?

Pharmaceuticals has been removed from the game. I haven't determined where I am going to put the drug store.

5) Ecology and the other related bologics sciences would be better together. I don't think that recycling would help with plastics either. Possibly genetics, but even then the link is somewhat tenuous.

Plastics are required for recycling because the massive build up of plastics in the landfills was a major impetus in the development and acceptance of Recycling.

6) I would have thought that computers would have had a more wide ranging effect. Certainly smart weapons would require computers.

Not sure how I missed that, but you are right, coomputers should be a prerequisite for Smart Weapons.

7) And finally, wold it be possible to have an upgrade to a coastal fortress, as I find the the coastal fortress is not much cop by itself.

Coastal Fortresses were only really relevant during the age of sail. Such fortifications as at Normandy are replicated in the game with the fortress worker job.

I am attaching, again, a preview of the next versions ancient advisor screen.

 

[CivAgamemnon]

Groan, Kalel. You love to make work for me, don't you? *muttering under breath*

 

[connor]

How well does this mod and its additional units handle putting in additional units from the custom graphics section? Would everything work properly? Is there a limit on the number of units? There are several I want to add. Thanks.
________________________________________
To secure peace is to prepare for war. Don't tread on me.

 

[Kal-el]

Connor,

Shouldn't be a problem if you add them correctly.

 

[sealman]

Originally posted by Kal-el
Connor,

Shouldn't be a problem if you add them correctly.

and that is always the catch

Keep up the good work guys... Great mod had some problems with an earlier version, never reported it. Grabed newest version, patched the game and ready to play!

PS: the problem I had was that when I captured a worker, he turned into a settler. but that was probably me acidently changing something as I tweaked.

want to leave work early and play.................