Double Your Pleasure
- Thread starter Kal-el
- Start date
ChaoticWanderer
Warlord
Just some thoughts
first i wish you could do a double irragation like in the old game.
one for the original irragation for when you first learn it
then one for farming
also studies a little on first crop demestications.
middle easta frica was wheat europe was barley. asia rice. north america as corn. south anericas first and their staple for the incans and such was beans. i think beans should be added as a hills jungle kind of food maybe? int he world map can be added to south america.
also think camles for mid asia and arabia and llamas for south america would be important as well.
add camels to desert lands.
and llamas to mountain
also you need something to make weaving mor eimpoartnat.
have sheep you find dure demestication be able to provide wool also add cotton as a crop.
have if you have both wool and silk and cotton. you be able to add a production bonus with weaving called jumping betty. which was important invention that made amss producing cloth possible.
or have a fashion district. when you have all three something that adds culture and happiness.
just some quick ideas.
first i wish you could do a double irragation like in the old game.
one for the original irragation for when you first learn it
then one for farming
also studies a little on first crop demestications.
middle easta frica was wheat europe was barley. asia rice. north america as corn. south anericas first and their staple for the incans and such was beans. i think beans should be added as a hills jungle kind of food maybe? int he world map can be added to south america.
also think camles for mid asia and arabia and llamas for south america would be important as well.
add camels to desert lands.
and llamas to mountain
also you need something to make weaving mor eimpoartnat.
have sheep you find dure demestication be able to provide wool also add cotton as a crop.
have if you have both wool and silk and cotton. you be able to add a production bonus with weaving called jumping betty. which was important invention that made amss producing cloth possible.
or have a fashion district. when you have all three something that adds culture and happiness.
just some quick ideas.
Dingocat85
Aficionado Extraordinaire
1) I think one of the big reasons the AI lags in the later game, is because it *flocks* to Theocracy. In every game I can think of, once they have the Tech, all AI governments switch to Theocracy...for the rest of the game 
The result? The AI gains a tile-penalty (something in Theocracy that's not in the Civilopedia, btw) for the rest of the game, acquires loads of money that they can only use to buy techs at ridiculous prices with (from me
), and every once in a while "hurries a city to death" - IOW, the citizens get so disgruntled from hurried production, AND since their city-tile is only producing 2 food, the AI makes every citizen an entertainer - and the city starves to death.
IMHO, this can be solved by making the AI *like* later governments more than Theocracy - in the same way the AI is made to *hate* Chiefdom.
2) The Civilopedia (CP from now on) says Sun Tzu's GW requires barracks - this is not true.
3) Calvary can't be upgraded to Humvee! But strangely enough, all lower horse-units (dragoon, horseman, etc.) can be upgraded...
4) On the subject of the Humvee - the CP doesn't mention they treat all terrain as roads.
5) The way I see it, Airports enable planes to fly back & forth between two destinations.Airfield bases, on the other hand, are like Airplane factories - like an Airplane barracks, in a sense. Airports should take the 'airlift' ability away from Airfield bases, leaving Airfield bases with only the abilites to A) repair planes in one turn, and B) make veteran air units.
6) The first ironclad battle in the world was fought during the US Civil War - the Ironclad USS Monitor (and three Steam Frigates), vs. the Ironclad CSS Virginia. To sum it up, the CSS Virginia destroyed one steam frigate and crippled two others without a scratch from the Steam Firgate's fire. Finally, the USS Monitor started firing upon the CSS Virginia - their shots bounced off each other's hulls, and they finally retreated after 4 1/2 hours - the only damage on either boat being a few dents here & there.
Dyp makes steam frigates in every way better than Ironclads. Besides making the Ironclad stronger than Steam Frigates, I have two ideas:
.........A) Ironclads weren't built to travel for long voyages - maybe
they should be limited to just Coast & Ocean travel (if
possible), as opposed to Steam Frigate's ability to travel
overseas.
........B) The first Ironclad prototypes took an extensive time to
build. Steam Power should [not] let players build
Ironclads, but instead enable each civ to build a SW in
cities with a Shipyard - maybe called Ironclads studies -
that enables production of Ironclads.
7) Dyp made the Roman Legionary 10 shields more expensive than other Swordsmen, for a grand total of 40 shields, and stats of 3 att / 2 def / 1 mov. Elephant riders, however, have 3 att. / 3 def. / 2 mov... and also cost 40 shields
. At the least, legionaries' price should drop back down to 30, and elephants stary at 40. Training a legion of men seems easier than taming a whole unit's worth of elephants, anyway...
Othersise, great mod. Keep up the good work!
The result? The AI gains a tile-penalty (something in Theocracy that's not in the Civilopedia, btw) for the rest of the game, acquires loads of money that they can only use to buy techs at ridiculous prices with (from me
), and every once in a while "hurries a city to death" - IOW, the citizens get so disgruntled from hurried production, AND since their city-tile is only producing 2 food, the AI makes every citizen an entertainer - and the city starves to death. IMHO, this can be solved by making the AI *like* later governments more than Theocracy - in the same way the AI is made to *hate* Chiefdom.
2) The Civilopedia (CP from now on) says Sun Tzu's GW requires barracks - this is not true.
3) Calvary can't be upgraded to Humvee! But strangely enough, all lower horse-units (dragoon, horseman, etc.) can be upgraded...
4) On the subject of the Humvee - the CP doesn't mention they treat all terrain as roads.
5) The way I see it, Airports enable planes to fly back & forth between two destinations.Airfield bases, on the other hand, are like Airplane factories - like an Airplane barracks, in a sense. Airports should take the 'airlift' ability away from Airfield bases, leaving Airfield bases with only the abilites to A) repair planes in one turn, and B) make veteran air units.
6) The first ironclad battle in the world was fought during the US Civil War - the Ironclad USS Monitor (and three Steam Frigates), vs. the Ironclad CSS Virginia. To sum it up, the CSS Virginia destroyed one steam frigate and crippled two others without a scratch from the Steam Firgate's fire. Finally, the USS Monitor started firing upon the CSS Virginia - their shots bounced off each other's hulls, and they finally retreated after 4 1/2 hours - the only damage on either boat being a few dents here & there.
Dyp makes steam frigates in every way better than Ironclads. Besides making the Ironclad stronger than Steam Frigates, I have two ideas:
.........A) Ironclads weren't built to travel for long voyages - maybe
they should be limited to just Coast & Ocean travel (if
possible), as opposed to Steam Frigate's ability to travel
overseas.
........B) The first Ironclad prototypes took an extensive time to
build. Steam Power should [not] let players build
Ironclads, but instead enable each civ to build a SW in
cities with a Shipyard - maybe called Ironclads studies -
that enables production of Ironclads.
7) Dyp made the Roman Legionary 10 shields more expensive than other Swordsmen, for a grand total of 40 shields, and stats of 3 att / 2 def / 1 mov. Elephant riders, however, have 3 att. / 3 def. / 2 mov... and also cost 40 shields
. At the least, legionaries' price should drop back down to 30, and elephants stary at 40. Training a legion of men seems easier than taming a whole unit's worth of elephants, anyway...Othersise, great mod. Keep up the good work!
Greeko
Pallida Mors
The colors of my civ and another civ flashes on my units and also the AI civ units. Does anyone have this problem with Version .84?
Anarch
Chieftain
Is this mode finished or what? Does it work smoohtly without any problems? 
dingocat, good points about ironclads and theocracy. i agree.
a roman legion should be a bit more powerful perhaps. 3/3/2?
they could outmarch any other army (including cavalry, which is not very difficult, since cavalry marches slower than infantry. the only speed advantage exists when charging or maneuvering on the battle field, but their overland-travel speed is rather low).
to my knowledge its impossible to defend with either cavalry or elephants.
elephants have 3/3/2 ATM. perhaps 4/1/2 would be better?
a roman legion should be a bit more powerful perhaps. 3/3/2?
they could outmarch any other army (including cavalry, which is not very difficult, since cavalry marches slower than infantry. the only speed advantage exists when charging or maneuvering on the battle field, but their overland-travel speed is rather low).
to my knowledge its impossible to defend with either cavalry or elephants.
elephants have 3/3/2 ATM. perhaps 4/1/2 would be better?
Dingocat85
Aficionado Extraordinaire
IIRC It's not a Dyp problem - that happened to me when I was running stuff other than Civ3 in the background - way back when I played *regular* Civ3
. I suggest restarting the comp, opening everything other than Civ3 that you want to open, and *then* starting Civ3.Higher Game
National Socialist
Elephant riders are way too powerful...
disorganizer
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2002
- Messages
- 4,233
just a stupid question:
could it be the ai is a bit slow on huge maps with dyp?
could it be the ai is a bit slow on huge maps with dyp?
Isak
Civ4 Scenario Designer
Like Dingocat85 says, this may be a Civ3 problem, not a mod bug, but I know I won't sleep 'till I find out so could you tell me which Civs this happens to and when it happens (just a few examples, so I can try to recreate it)
Also feel free to send me a savegame, but please include some instructions on where I should look for the glitches, or what to do to reproduce them.
Disorganizer: I think the AI is it's usual cunning self, even when playing on big maps, but since the chance of AI survival is slightly decreased, I encourage you to play with the maximum number of civs on any big map. We're still balancing the later stages of the game, and eventually the AI should be quite able to compete, but even then, due to the Food requirements, a few Civs will be destined for early extermination, so in order to minimize the effect of that, you should make sure there are a lot of civs ready to pick up the challenge if one goes down, so to speak.
Matthew
Chieftain
Is there any way that we could have more starting races without having larger maps? This would then lead to lots of combat early on (in the BCs) as territory is fought over, with bigger campaigns coming later on when civs are more established.
Greeko
Pallida Mors
I sent a savegame. It isn't the one with the original problem but i made one that had the same rules. I tried to do this as fast as possible so i cheated. Look at the units inside the AI cities, They flash my civ color and their civ color. Since 2 AI civs are doing this I think every AI civ in this save will have this problem. My units color (if you can tell) is flashing lighter and darker for some reason. Thnx in advance
Look at the units inside the AI cities, They flash my civ color and their civ color. Since 2 AI civs are doing this I think every AI civ in this save will have this problem. My units color (if you can tell) is flashing lighter and darker for some reason. Thnx in advanceDingocat;
Very true. Tha AI "always" slowly kills itself w/ Therocracy every time.
The AI now, due to DYP and/or Firaxis improvements, plays a much, much tougher early to mid game which is fun. However, by the 1800's, the AI slowly self destructs with Therocracy. To a large degree, this ruins the 2nd half of the game.
I'll bet RobO, Isak or Kal-El will fix this soon though.
Very true. Tha AI "always" slowly kills itself w/ Therocracy every time.
The AI now, due to DYP and/or Firaxis improvements, plays a much, much tougher early to mid game which is fun. However, by the 1800's, the AI slowly self destructs with Therocracy. To a large degree, this ruins the 2nd half of the game.
I'll bet RobO, Isak or Kal-El will fix this soon though.
Rory_20_uk
Chieftain
Greetings all! I hope that you all have not spent too many lonely nights wondering where I was - suffice that I was safe
I see that the posts are still ploughing on at the same phenominal rate! I would like to say again relating back to the old debate over the Poles in the mod that the Polish-Latvian empire was more when Poland was a power to be reckoned with.
And here are some more lil' bugs that I came across:
- When the longboat sinks, the animation is of a galley. IS this intentional?
- Is it correct that district courthouses do not require courthouses to build?
- When great wonders such as the Oracle become obselete the shrines dissapear as well. Is this intended? It's damned annoying
Good to be back online!
I see that the posts are still ploughing on at the same phenominal rate! I would like to say again relating back to the old debate over the Poles in the mod that the Polish-Latvian empire was more when Poland was a power to be reckoned with.
And here are some more lil' bugs that I came across:
- When the longboat sinks, the animation is of a galley. IS this intentional?
- Is it correct that district courthouses do not require courthouses to build?
- When great wonders such as the Oracle become obselete the shrines dissapear as well. Is this intended? It's damned annoying
Good to be back online!
Originally posted by Kal-el
dog,
to be honest I don't know if there are any units in this mod that aren't available elsewhere. There may be a couple, but I have lost track of which AoK units are on this forum and which ones I got via other sources.
Thanks for the answer Kal-el. I've been looking over the first couple of pages of this thread (I'd need a week's vacation to read the whole thing!
) and I think the AoK units that you have which have not been posted elsewhere are the Elephant Rider, Elephant Archer (tho jimmyh made this one also), and the Chariot Archer. Could any good soul post these units?? Pretty please 
? If I wasn't on dial-up I'd d/l the whole mod and sort thru it but 23mb is a long time d/ling for me. 
Other possible units not posted elsewhere: Corvette (is this unique animation?)
Jeep (unsure what you might be using for this)
Crusader (I think this might be another AoK unit not posted elsewhere)
Merchant (maybe another AoK unit like the horse with cart??)
Samurai (sounds like you have different anim for this unit...AoK??)
Champion
and from the DyP website previews: Freight
Caravan
Fanatic (is this the standard Immortals anim or something else?)
If these units have unique animation then the whole CivFanatics modding community would be ecstatic to see them added to Lab Monkey's library. Especially me!
Thanks in advance.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
Well, I've been playing this mod. First mod I've ever tried. I'm using version .84 and the 180X180 world map for this mod and playing the Americans with 16 civs. I built a few rangers and they grabbed huts to get me over half way through the ancient era, so I entered the middle ages before 0 A.D.
I'm slipping back to my builder style of play rather than the ICS style I had been doing with the normal rules. I'm trying to build every improvement in every city. I CAN'T KEEP UP! With this mod I was having flashbacks to CTP I & II. I never run out of stuff to build. I haven't built a military at all, just 6 free defenders I got from culture flips. Learning techs every 3 turns.
France is very rich. I could sell them a bunch of techs for 7700+ gold and another 100+ gold/turn. Persia built up infrastructure quite nicely, everyone else just had the heroic epic in their capital and was building a caravan.
And one mistake I have found. The civlopedia says Social Democracy has minimal corruption. It really is communal. I was quite surprised when my super-science city lost a few gold.
Dog - some units don't have their own animation yet. This is still a work in process. Some units do have their own animation, but others don't. The engineer is pretty cool to watch him in action, he has his own graphic and different animations for what he is doing. The ranger is just the archer unit, labelled differently. The fanatic looks kinda like a stormtrooper (from Star Wars) to me, haven't seen the fanatic fight yet, though.
I'm slipping back to my builder style of play rather than the ICS style I had been doing with the normal rules. I'm trying to build every improvement in every city. I CAN'T KEEP UP! With this mod I was having flashbacks to CTP I & II. I never run out of stuff to build. I haven't built a military at all, just 6 free defenders I got from culture flips. Learning techs every 3 turns.
France is very rich. I could sell them a bunch of techs for 7700+ gold and another 100+ gold/turn. Persia built up infrastructure quite nicely, everyone else just had the heroic epic in their capital and was building a caravan.
And one mistake I have found. The civlopedia says Social Democracy has minimal corruption. It really is communal. I was quite surprised when my super-science city lost a few gold.
Dog - some units don't have their own animation yet. This is still a work in process. Some units do have their own animation, but others don't. The engineer is pretty cool to watch him in action, he has his own graphic and different animations for what he is doing. The ranger is just the archer unit, labelled differently. The fanatic looks kinda like a stormtrooper (from Star Wars) to me, haven't seen the fanatic fight yet, though.
Kal-el
Deity
Rory,
I was too lazy to try and convert the longboat death animation. So it just uses the galley.
The District Courthouse should require a Courthouse.
Any improvement that is given by a wonder dissapears when that wonder becomes obsolete. The wonder is only giving you the effect of the improvement not actually placing the improvement in all your cities. Take as an example the Chichen Itza. It gives the effects of Courthouses in all your cities but doesn't put courthouses in all your cities. Courthouses reduce corruption, but the Chichen Itza was a temple to the gods at which human asacrifices were performed. The Chichen Itza scares the populace into behaving themselves, or however you want to think of it.
Dingocat, et al.,
So Theocracy is the Culprit? If it is that would be great!!! It would be an easy solution to the AI ineptitude. Could some of you test the mod with Theocracy Disabled. Just go into the editor and set the Prerequisite to Advanced Warfare, or in the alternative, set the corruption value to problematic. I would appreciate feedback on both possible solutions.
The problem with setting the civs to hate theocracy is that then none of them will ever move into it. This may be a good thing. :sheepish: I will probably have to rebalance Theocracy.
on to your other points:
2) Sun Tzu should require barracks
3) no horse units should be able to upgrade to the Humvee
4) Ok, that should be fixed in the next edition
5) There are two flags that have been divided between the Airport and the Airforce Base. The Airforce base has the "Veteran Air Units" Flag ticked and the Airport has the "Allows Air Trade" flag ticked. There is no flag that enables airlift. The division of the Airport and the Harbor, while a great idea, the desired effect may not be truly achievable given the limitations of hard-coded aspects of the game. We may have to recombine those particular improvements.
6A) Ironclads are currently set to sink in Ocean, they should probably be set to sink in Sea as well. If they are given this additional restriction I may be inclined to up their stats to 6/7/3. How does that sit with you.
6B) Unfortunately it is not currently possible ot set improvements as prerequisites for units. Oh that it were so, the possiblities that would open up before us.
7) Good point. I guess the best solution to that issue would be to raise the cost of the elephant rider to 5 and drop the Legionary and the Immortal back to 3.
Mathew,
You can set the number of civs in the editor on the World Sizes page. They are currently set to the defaults, but can be set to anything your heart desires.
Choaticwanderer,
I wish we could have double irragation like Civ2 too. To bad we can't.
Its also a shame that the game does not allow for the transplantation of resources. That would allow for a more accurate placement of resources. The current resources in v0.84 are the same as those prior to to 1.29f at which time we could only have 36 viewable icons. I actually had 37 resources because Gold and Silver Shared the Same Icon.
Camels are on the list of future resources. Llamas was up for debate prior to 1.29 but didn't make the cut at that time. I am still debating whether they should be included. They were only found in the Andes until very recently but may be included as a possible luxury resource.
Weaving gives you silks, having access to an additional luxury resource seems pretty valuable. But what do you suggest to make it a more valuable tech?
Cotton will also be added as a luxury resource along with cocoa.
The commerce point from the sheep represents the sale of the wool.
The fashion district idea, believe it or not, was something we had looked at early on in the mod, but decided against it.
Thanks for the thoughts and comments.
Please test the Theocracy settings.
I was too lazy to try and convert the longboat death animation. So it just uses the galley.
The District Courthouse should require a Courthouse.
Any improvement that is given by a wonder dissapears when that wonder becomes obsolete. The wonder is only giving you the effect of the improvement not actually placing the improvement in all your cities. Take as an example the Chichen Itza. It gives the effects of Courthouses in all your cities but doesn't put courthouses in all your cities. Courthouses reduce corruption, but the Chichen Itza was a temple to the gods at which human asacrifices were performed. The Chichen Itza scares the populace into behaving themselves, or however you want to think of it.
Dingocat, et al.,
So Theocracy is the Culprit? If it is that would be great!!! It would be an easy solution to the AI ineptitude. Could some of you test the mod with Theocracy Disabled. Just go into the editor and set the Prerequisite to Advanced Warfare, or in the alternative, set the corruption value to problematic. I would appreciate feedback on both possible solutions.
The problem with setting the civs to hate theocracy is that then none of them will ever move into it. This may be a good thing. :sheepish: I will probably have to rebalance Theocracy.
on to your other points:
2) Sun Tzu should require barracks
3) no horse units should be able to upgrade to the Humvee
4) Ok, that should be fixed in the next edition
5) There are two flags that have been divided between the Airport and the Airforce Base. The Airforce base has the "Veteran Air Units" Flag ticked and the Airport has the "Allows Air Trade" flag ticked. There is no flag that enables airlift. The division of the Airport and the Harbor, while a great idea, the desired effect may not be truly achievable given the limitations of hard-coded aspects of the game. We may have to recombine those particular improvements.
6A) Ironclads are currently set to sink in Ocean, they should probably be set to sink in Sea as well. If they are given this additional restriction I may be inclined to up their stats to 6/7/3. How does that sit with you.
6B) Unfortunately it is not currently possible ot set improvements as prerequisites for units. Oh that it were so, the possiblities that would open up before us.
7) Good point. I guess the best solution to that issue would be to raise the cost of the elephant rider to 5 and drop the Legionary and the Immortal back to 3.
Mathew,
You can set the number of civs in the editor on the World Sizes page. They are currently set to the defaults, but can be set to anything your heart desires.
Choaticwanderer,
I wish we could have double irragation like Civ2 too. To bad we can't.
Its also a shame that the game does not allow for the transplantation of resources. That would allow for a more accurate placement of resources. The current resources in v0.84 are the same as those prior to to 1.29f at which time we could only have 36 viewable icons. I actually had 37 resources because Gold and Silver Shared the Same Icon.
Camels are on the list of future resources. Llamas was up for debate prior to 1.29 but didn't make the cut at that time. I am still debating whether they should be included. They were only found in the Andes until very recently but may be included as a possible luxury resource.
Weaving gives you silks, having access to an additional luxury resource seems pretty valuable. But what do you suggest to make it a more valuable tech?
Cotton will also be added as a luxury resource along with cocoa.
The commerce point from the sheep represents the sale of the wool.
The fashion district idea, believe it or not, was something we had looked at early on in the mod, but decided against it.
Thanks for the thoughts and comments.
Please test the Theocracy settings.
Kal-el
Deity
Dog,
Corvette - Just using the Privateer, but would love to have this altered to remove the skull and crossbones.
Jeep - Got nothing for this yet, currently using the HumVee but hoping the PTW WWII Unit Set includes a Jeep
Crusader - I think this unit is availble in the Unit Forum
Merchant - Nothing new here yet
Samurai - Don't think this is on the forums, but I haven't been given permission to post it here, only been given permission to post it with the mod.
Champion - See Samurai
Freight - Nothing new here, but Pesoloco is working on it
Caravan - I think this is available on the forum
Fanatic - This is a piss poor conversion that I did of the immortal. I haven't posted it on the forum due to the low quality.
Corvette - Just using the Privateer, but would love to have this altered to remove the skull and crossbones.
Jeep - Got nothing for this yet, currently using the HumVee but hoping the PTW WWII Unit Set includes a Jeep
Crusader - I think this unit is availble in the Unit Forum
Merchant - Nothing new here yet
Samurai - Don't think this is on the forums, but I haven't been given permission to post it here, only been given permission to post it with the mod.
Champion - See Samurai
Freight - Nothing new here, but Pesoloco is working on it
Caravan - I think this is available on the forum
Fanatic - This is a piss poor conversion that I did of the immortal. I haven't posted it on the forum due to the low quality.
Hi I just downloaded your mod v 0.84 with patch 1.29f. And at the beginning of the game when you adjust your science level to less than 50% (not sure on exact number, at work right now) and you are low on cash, the game will put the science back to 50% every turn, until I built a warrior. Does this have to do with the rate cap or something? but why would building a warrior stop this.
Has this happened to anyone else? this happened both times for me. I was playing Americans, monarchy level, huge map
Has this happened to anyone else? this happened both times for me. I was playing Americans, monarchy level, huge map
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