Double Your Pleasure

[Kal-el]

I promised you I would get back to you.

Originally posted by canabliss
some ideas for future releases...

Carriers: Having a defense of 20 while battleships have a 16, means that if your stack of navy units is attacked, the first to defend is the carrier. Since battleships have such a high attack rate they almost always will kill a carrier and leave the escort ships untouched. I changed my game to give carriers a defense of 12 and changed battleships to a/d 30/20. This way if you are attacked the big ships will fight it out first and also it means escorts for carriers are critical.

Good point. I hadn’t considered that before you brought it up. I have now altered the stats of the Naval Units:

Carrier 8/15/4 +4HP
Destroyer 22/16/4 +4HP
Aegis Cruiser 16/18/4 +5HP
Battleship 36/18/4 +5HP

Almost all units have had their A/D/M stats altered, so don’t try and compare these stats to 0.86 stats.

APC: I haven’t seen the AI use one of these yet, so I took them and trucks out. If I could I would remove mech infantry and have only apc with an a/d of 1/22, but since the ai can figure them out they become a human unit only (but great for mp)

The APC is now the precursor to the Mech Infantry and no longer carries foot units.

theocracy.... no matter what I do to try to keep the AI from going to and staying in theocracy, the no maintenance flag entices them too much and they almost always end up there. I'm thinking about taking it out too .

Which version of DyP are you playing? It would be helpful if everybody would indicate, before they make any comments, which version of the mod they are talking about. It would also be helpful if I could remember when certain changes were made. Regardless, Theocracy will now be required to pay maintenance for improvements and will only get a finite number of free units.

East India Company.... not sure you get the commerce bonus when building this wonder, I think that it only increases movement but have to test it out again (right as I built it I got attacked and sidetracked from my testing)

As long as you don’t build it in a city that already has the “wonder commerce bonus” you should see an increase. That flag is not cumulative.

in my latest game (DyP world map) I flagged the AI civs to build workers, air and navy units often, and have seen Aztec battleships in my waters. It has also allowed the AI to build some railroads which I haven’t seen much before (maybe because of the theocracy worker rate). It’s an emperor game and in the modern age my biggest, best wonder city (American Comm. and Indus.) is still only half the culture of the #5 city on the top 5 screen. the French (as indus. and expan.) built the first 20 wonders in the game and have built a lot of culture stuff throughout there empire, where Egypt’s capitol has built a library and a couple of small wonders. I like this because France was surrounded and need culture to keep there ground and they built it, where Egypt didn’t have close neighbors and didn’t need it, but I still haven’t caught up to Egypt in military strength.

We are going to test not setting any “build often” in the Governors and see how that works out.

 

[canabliss]

sounds like the navy will be awesome with these changes, im finishing a game now where i flagged build often workers,navy and air and i am getting hit with battleships from every direction, even civs that i thought where almost dead. almost every city has air defenses like this. the worker flag was to compinsate for the theocracy love of the ai, if they dont use it to death then that flag probally could be left off.

im playing 0.86 and have tried tweaking theocracy in many diferant ways, the no maintnance seems to be the big attraction to the ai so changing that should fix the problem, in my game war broke out, i got 3 alliances with the biggest civs, but after so many turns they all lost there ports, i think the crazy fools sold them to pay for military units because i had trade deals with them and nobody was close enough to hit there capitols ports( i think )

i cant wait untill MP comes out and i can play you guys, this mod is very addicting and without it i would be off civ3 and back to ps2, thx to all involved

 

[ChaoticWanderer]

I added a bunch of luxeries and strategic on a giant map and it seems maybe you got less of each luxery but theya re clumped more. the last two times it has happened. but it hink it works well this way because luxery items shouldnt be many you should ahev to work to egt them.

but havent gotten a whole world map yet to see how they look so will test it mroe til i do.

 

[Hindmost]

I finally registered with the site, this is the best civ3 mod. Have played since v0.3something. Hmm, guess that's all. Just wanted to post something.

 

[connor]

Don't know if this has been discussed yet, but I got this idea from a post on this forum.

I am playing v .86 and it is challenging to say the least, anyway I unchecked all the civs build preferences and then played a conquest or domination game. It is probably the most challenging game I have played and very interesting. I have only survived by placating other civs with gifts. Culturally, the other civs have built little, but their armies are massive, military type structures and units are all they are building. Waves of troops pass through my kingdom to attack another, I have never seen the AI build so much military, it is a warmonger's dream.

The AI all gangs up on one civ. They all make alliances together to destroy a civ, and hundreds of units swoop in to attack. They kill that civ, then pick another, rinse and repeat.

Has anyone else tried this?

 

[bernskov]

Originally posted by Hindmost
I finally registered with the site, this is the best civ3 mod. Have played since v0.3something. Hmm, guess that's all. Just wanted to post something.

Welcome

 

[bshirt]

conner;

Yep. Playing .86 (Monarch) on a huge map with 12 Civs, especially in the early game, waves & waves of other civs units go through my territory to attack someone else.

I wouldn't have a prayer of holding them off if they attacked me, so I kiss thier butt and give them whatever they want when they contact me.

As you say, the AI gangs up one one Civ and then completely destroys it. Then on to the next one. Yes, "challenging" is the word, especially as the AI trades with each other instantly and leaves me in the dust regarding technology progress.

Whew!

Still no AI navy though, thank God.

 

[dos]

?Bug Report?: (Still playing 0.83)(This might have been addressed before, but here goes)

It seems to me that workers build things at different speed sometimes. (I'm pretty sure of this! I wasnt
drinking the other night and I saw it again and again. With 205
of them I see it a lot actually)

There are various examples of this. From the base number of turns needed to build an improvement [Mining woods: 24 or 12] or when your using more then one on a improvement at a time [Building Railroad over mountain: first unit 12 second 6 turns; later first unit 12 second 4]. It also depends on whether its in your domain or outside and most weird of all, on the level of corruption in that part of your empire?!. I will not get started on the different build speeds between Workers, Labourers and Engineers.
Sometimes they are different, sometimes the same, sometimes... Aaarg!

Please tel me anyone else has seen this.

Richard

p.s. Spirit of St Louie cant be rushed. This been fixed?

p.p.s Stange experience with the governer. I set it to build improvement (production, happiness etc..) often and Laborours sometimes. My whole empire start building labourers and not one improvement. Me thinks something wrong with build often switch.

 

[RobO]

dos, AFAIK the terrain (i.e. movement cost) and type of worker job are the only factors affecting the number of turns it takes.

Except for the government type that is
And there is a tech that doubles the worker rate - not sure what it is in 0.83

 

[ChaoticWanderer]

i was wonderng f someone wanted to test something since im not sure how it works

would increse to show up ability of all the uxeries or making sure they all have them make more show up on a map?

 

[Bamspeedy]

Robo is right. Except, he forgot to also mention about captured workers. Captured workers take twice as long as your own workers to do things.

What government you are in, the terrain, and which task you choose would affect the # of turns. And after (replaceable parts?) you get faster workers. It is replaceable parts with a normal civ3 game, I can't remember if DyP uses the same tech or not.

Workers, serfs, engineers, laborers only move more tiles, they do not perform the tasks any sooner.

When you have multiple units performing a task on the same tile, it may be confusing as when you selected the first unit it tells you 12 turns, and when you tell the second worker it says 6 turns, because now the two of them working together would get it done in half the time (6 instead of 12), and a 3rd worker would cut this to 4 turns (12/3), and 4 workers cuts it to 3 turns. But when you go back and select that first unit again it may still tell you 12 turns. This would get updated on the next turn and both workers should say 5 turns on the next turn (3 if you had 3 workers, and 2 if you had 4 workers).

 

[Kal-el]

Serfs actually work faster than the others because they are the industrial civs TSU and all industrial civ workers work faster than other civs' workers.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Chaotic warrior - yes, you can change the appearance ratio of luxuries. Normally, they are set to 0, which means a random number is selected. If you give it a number, you could control how many there are. If you set it to the same ratio as uranium (100), you get 1 for every civ that is playing. So with it set at 100 and playing with 16 civs, you would get 16 of each luxury (sometimes 17).

If you set it to 300, you would get 3 of each type of luxury for every civ (or 48 of each luxury for a 16 civ game )

If you only put a 1 there, you get only 1 or 2 of that luxury on the entire map (huge earth map), and I imagine on smaller maps or less civs, you might not get that on the map at all. That resource would definitely be one to fight wars over.

Dissappearance ratio is nearly the complete opposite. 0 for the appearance ratio gives it a random number, but a 0 for dissapearance ratio, means it will never dissappear. If you give a resource a 1 for dissapearance ratio, it will dissappear every time you get it hooked up. That's makes for a funny game, because you and the AI are spending the entire game roading up the whole map chasing that resource around .

The higher the number for the dissappearance ratio, the less often it will dissappear.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Has anyone ever seen the AI actually build any of these improvements that add unhappiness to the city? Like nuclear plants, steel mills, slave markets, and offshore platforms? It could be that the AI avoids these things like the plague because of the unhappiness flag, even though the city would have been able to handle the extra unhappiness. And because they lack these, they don't have the increased production, thus letting the human catch up to it and/or beat it easier in the later stages of the game.

 

[RobO]

Bamspeedy. I don't know for sure, but I don't think the unhappiness flag is the problem. They don't build Forges, Mills and Town clocks either.

 

[canabliss]

hi all

i just built the east india wonder and did not receive a trade bonus. i think that having two flags on that wonder somehow screws it up.

here's a save just after i built it in Veil, take a look and tell me if im missing something because im pretty sure its not working the way you planned it.

 

[canabliss]

sorry, my bad
i misunderstood the wonder features and gave you the wrong save.....maybe me sleep now

 

[KDan]

I regret to correct you, Robo, but they do build town clocks, or else I don't know how they can beat me to building Big Ben They don't build district courthouses, but that might be related to the enormous price of building those monsters...

Here's an idea that might push the AI to build more - make every (or most) improvement linked to a wonder, large or small, when there are 5 or more of the said building in the civilization. If the buildings are reasonably priced (like the town clocks) I would not be surprised to see the AIs gunning for them as soon as they can, to be able to build the wonder... that would be a sneaky but maybe effective way to coax the AI into building more improvements. For instance, Forges could be linked to a small wonder of the Master Smith, that gives an extra 50% production in the town where it's built, offshore platforms could link to the small wonder of Trans-oceanic Pipeline which gives another 50% increase in production in the town where it's built...

I have a feeling that this trick could motivate the AI a bit more to build those production improvements... and if they build more production improvements, they're going to kick some serious ass

Daniel

 

[KDan]

And Steel Mills could lead to the great wonder of the Leading Steel Industry, which would result in a 25% increase in production throughout the empire... and Slave Markets could result in Slavery Charter or something like that which doubles the effects of the Slave Markets, or makes people happier or something (when you build it people accept slavery more or something).

I had another thought, which is that slavery is not presented here as the powerhouse which it was during antiquity... a 25% increase in production doesn't represent the idea very well. I would suggest splitting the slave market into two improvements... one, a slave market, which is the same as the current one, and an improved slave market that requires the existence of a slave market, let's call it a Slave-trader headquarters, which increases the production by 50% or even 100% and makes another 2 citizens unhappy. When saying this I'm thinking of the way they implemented slavery in Ctp, which was fantastic and very realistic (shame they didn't pick up on that idea and so many others in civ3)... slavery, regardless of how badly we see it now, was a powerhouse of antiquity, which most cultures practiced, and should be properly represented as such.

I'm also thinking that to negate the slave trading later in a brute but effective way would be to attach to all modern, industrial and renaissance small wonders and great wonders a flag that doubles the unhappiness effects of slavery - so that eventually keeping slave markets becomes impossible and they are naturally sold.
Not sure the if the AI's would pick up on that or just self-destruct, though...

Good luck,

Daniel

 

[RobO]

KDan, they don't need to build the Town Clock to build Big Ben. All they need is to start building a wonder in a city, then keep at it until it's finished. They probably started on another wonder ages ago and shifted to Big Ben before completion.

And it hs been my experiene that improvement prerequisites for wonders demotivate the AI, not the other way around. I don't think the AI is programmed to take this into account.