Double Your Pleasure

[mrgenie]

I think this MOD rocks, it's the best I've ever seen. Only thing that bothers me is the fact that in the city view screen none of the city improvements has the right name. that's to bad..and the wondes are also very weird shown in the screen.

btw, on the carrier stats. i think in real life it's hard to tacle down a carrier, hmm, na, not hard, almost impossible..a battleship nowadays, i think you'll need 10 of them to even get into the vicinity of a carrier therefore I suggest you make the carrier VERY VERY expensive but give it therefore HUGE defenses...so that a AI attack on a carrier or if I want to take out a AI carrier I have to send massive forces to take it out.

ah yes, and a carrier should also have some more room for fighters.

somthing general:
I think the AI is weak. I never force war and just put everything into technologie and build massive forces at the beginning of the game. then each time I get better units I just make kamikaze actions on cities of the computer and by doing so each time i get newer units i get some cities of the AI. and the computer is stupid. He attacks each time cities with less then 10units. I just use the tactic: "get 40units together and ram the first city, then wait untill they are healed, and take the next one out" No AI who has any way to protect himself against my raging forces. he should build also huge armies and then attack me.
I hope in PTW the AI will have a simulated IQ competative to that of a student, which is not that high!

 

[RobO]

Originally posted by mrgenie
I think this MOD rocks, it's the best I've ever seen.

You got that right

Only thing that bothers me is the fact that in the city view screen none of the city improvements has the right name. that's to bad..and the wondes are also very weird shown in the screen.

Can't do anything about that. Please complain to Firaxis

 

[KDan]

Robo: ah well, damn shame... Strange, I thought that Big Ben required a town clock... hrm...

I still like my slavery idea though

Daniel

 

[sealman]

Originally posted by KDan
Robo: ah well, damn shame... Strange, I thought that Big Ben required a town clock... hrm...

I still like my slavery idea though

Daniel

I like your slavery idea as well and I also thought that Big Ben required a town clock. But the DYP guys are the ones who would know for sure.

Keep up the good work.

 

[Kal-el]

A while back, August 20, I asked Soren, the Civ3 AI programmer, about this issue. I am including my initial question and his response.

from Dick Jensen aka Kal-el
Soren,

I was wondering if this might be causing some of my problems. For many of the latter industrial buildings I gave them a negative happiness modifier to represent the "not in my backyard" mentality. Do you think this might be causing the AI reluctance in building those improvements?

thanks,

Dick Jensen

and Soren's Response

from Soren
The ai doesn't definetly adjust for unhappiness from buildings... even if it wasn't in the standard game.

Not a conclusive statement, but it seems that Soren believes that the AI would not be disuaded by the unhappiness modifier.

@mrgenie: The Carriers high defense rating as you describe it seems to come more from the swarm of fighters that it can launch to defend itself. To replicate this I am allowing fighters to have lethal naval bombardment. Carriers already can carry 4 aircraft.

@KDan: It is an interesting proposal regarding the slave trade. I think, however, that the AI would end up self destructing as we have seen it do so many other times before. It would be a simple test and I would appreciate any substantive information you can give me on how the AI handles such increased negative happiness. If you want to test this just go into the editor and flag a few of the latter wonders with this "penalty".

Thanks

 

[RobO]

Originally posted by Kal-el
@KDan: It is an interesting proposal regarding the slave trade. I think, however, that the AI would end up self destructing as we have seen it do so many other times before. It would be a simple test and I would appreciate any substantive information you can give me on how the AI handles such increased negative happiness. If you want to test this just go into the editor and flag a few of the latter wonders with this "penalty".

Thanks

I would appreciate that a lot too.

The editor only allows this for wonders, and the setting is "Double Happiness of ..." - so it is not clear if this also doubles unhappiness.

If this works, then I think we could safely (and should) make wonders like Civil Rights Movement and Emancipation Proclamation double the unhappiness of slave market. It could possibly be added to others, but it will probably only work once (could we have a test, please ). No need to add it to all the modern wonders.

 

[KDan]

If this works, then I think we could safely (and should) make wonders like Civil Rights Movement and Emancipation Proclamation double the unhappiness of slave market. It could possibly be added to others, but it will probably only work once (could we have a test, please ). No need to add it to all the modern wonders.

It may only work once, but the idea is to ensure that no matter what wonders they build, they will eventually get stuck with that flag (at least one of them...).

Ok, I'll give it a try. Gotta reinstall civ3 for it (yes, I know, I'm a heretic, I deleted it to concentrate on finding a job... it's a tough market out there hehe), but I'll do it now

Daniel

 

[RobO]

Hey KDan, your sacrifice is greatly appeciated

A tip: You could edit some of the improvements / wonders, so that you can test the effect quite early in the game.

 

[KDan]

I did (kinda... I made all the late middle/industrial wonders double the happiness effects of slaver headquarters, and all the later ones double the effects of the slave market... with some randomization to ensure that basically if you want to keep slaves at all you'll have to skip on all wonders of the world, in practice... and then I gave myself 13 perfect city sites on a normal size map >:-D evil huh? with 1 turn per research it makes for a very quick game hehe)

Problem: I've just built slave markets everywhere, but the unhappy faces don't show up in the improvements list on the left...?!? I've double-checked the bic, slave markets should give 2 unhappy faces... is that a ... erm... feature of civ3? (doesn't show unhappy faces in list)... if so, how do I figure out how many people are being made unhappy given that all my cities are supah-happy? I guess I could cut all roads to luxuries, sell all happiness improvements, and see what happens when I sell the slave stuff... yeah, that's what I'll do.

Funny how you find the answers yourself when you ask the question to someone else

Daniel

 

[Dingocat85]

Originally posted by RobO
And it hs been my experiene that improvement prerequisites for wonders demotivate the AI, not the other way around. I don't think the AI is programmed to take this into account.

Not so, at least in my experience.. The Great Library requires a Library, and I've always got the someone-else-is-building-the-great-library popup.

As for District Courthouses: The 'must have water in its radius' flag really seems to hinder the AI, not to mention me

One last thing: If The Great Library requires a Library, why doesn't JS Bach's Cathedral require (drumroll please) ...a Cathedral?

.....Dingocat85

 

[Nder]

I think the District Courthouse is meant to be difficult to build, and you aren't suppose to be able to build them in all your cities. My understanding is that they are meant to represent a higher level of court house, somewhere inbetween the Supreme Court and the regular Court. Maybe they should be renamed Court of Appeals.

When can we expect the next installment of the DyP? It has been over two weeks since the last release!!! Are you guys done? Or just taking a much needed/deserved break?

 

[Bamspeedy]

I wonder if adding culture (just 1 cp) to production improvements would motivate the AI to build forges, mills, etc?

The problem I see with that though, is triggering a cultural victory, but I disable that victory condition, so it wouldn't matter for me.

I don't know about making wonders double unhappiness to slave markets. If the AI ever got around to actually building a slave market, I don't think it would be smart enough to disband it once they got the wonder that double the unhappiness. Thus, it would be self-destructing for the AI.

 

[Morbius]

Destroyer 22/16/4 +4HP
Aegis Cruiser 16/18/4 +5HP

those stats are kinda weird.
i mean AEGIS is a modern radar system to my knowledge. and a cruiser is larger than a destroyer.

a modern aegis cruiser could sink a battleship and track the incoming battleship shells with its radar ... no idea whether it could take evasive maneuvers, tho. however, it would sink the battleship before the latter could use its guns -- missiles simply have a greater range.
however the battle value of an AEGIS cruiser should be much, much higher than that of an old (WW I? WW II?) destroyer.
even higher than that of a no longer used battle ship (battle ships will probably never again attack carriers (as mentioned somewhere above in another post), since the last 4 still existing ships are mothballed and striken from the US navy list. they are too expensive. and modern missiles can penetrate their armor anyway.

 

[canabliss]

are you guys changing the a/d for elephant units?

i think 4/4 for an elephant rider is a bit high, it makes elephants the most important resourse of the game imho
at the time there discovered the best defense unit is only a 2, and if you dont have elephants and your aggressive neighbor does , its over
i also think that it diminishes the immortal and legioners by making them almost obsolete by the time you can get them built.
my last game i gave towns a 50% defense boost to try to keep the civs alive awhile, but my fortified bowman with walls and the 50% lost bad to elephant riders and i dont see how i could stop it.

i like the idea of elephant units but i think they need some balancing.

as for naval units, i think the modern units could use more defense, i will hate losing battleships to steam frigates and there numbers are pretty close.
battleships 36/24
carriers 5/20
destroyers 22/16
aegeis cruiser 25/24
i think these would be a bit better numbers so the old navies of the world would need to be upgraded to be effective.

 

[Kal-el]

Canabliss: The Elephant Rider and Elephant Archer have been scaled back. The Rider is now 4/2/2 and the Archer is 3/2/2-4/1/1 they both cost 70.

Morbius: I admit my knowledge of modern navies is sorely lacking. I am much more familiar with the Age-of-Sail.

I will adjust the Aegis Cruiser to reflect is superior might, but do you think I should make it more powerful than a battleship? Or just allow them to carry cruise missiles and give them a longer bombardment range. I would think that if the Batlleship were able to get in close enough, it would pound the tar out of the Cruiser. Am I way off on this?

Take a look at these stats. Note that everything from Galleons on up (except for Ironclads) have the ATAR flag so their movement is effectively doubled.

Vessel Type:----------A/D/M-------HP-------S/R/F--------Cost----Trans
Canoe------------------0/0/1--------0--------0/0/0----------1---------0
Galley-------------------0/1/3--------0--------0/0/0----------2---------2
Trireme-----------------3/1/3--------0--------0/0/0----------3---------0
Long Ship--------------2/2/4--------0--------0/0/0----------4---------2
Caravel-----------------2/3/5--------1--------0/0/0----------5---------3
Brig----------------------4/3/6--------2--------6/1/1----------6---------0
Galleon-----------------2/4/3--------1--------0/0/0----------6---------4
Corvette---------------6/4/3--------2---------8/1/2----------7---------0
Sloop-O-War----------6/4/4--------2--------8/1/2-----------7---------0
Frigate------------------8/6/3--------2-------10/1/3----------8---------2
Ship-of-the-Line-----10/8/3--------3-------10/1/3---------10--------2
Man-O-War----------10/10/3-------3--------10/1/3---------10-------2
Steam Frigate-------12/10/3-------3--------12/1/3---------14-------2
Privateer---------------5/3/4--------2---------8/1/2----------8---------1
Ironclad---------------2/14/3--------3--------14/1/3--------12--------0
Destroyer------------22/16/4-------4--------16/1/3---------18-------2
Early Submarine-----16/3/2--------0--------0/0/0----------14-------0
Submarine------------24/8/3--------1--------0/0/0----------16-------0
Battleship------------36/18/4-------6--------22/2/4---------30-------3
AEGIS Cruiser-------24/24/5-------4--------16/1/3----------24------2
Transport-------------6/12/6--------3---------8/1/2----------10-------8
Carrier-----------------8/15/4--------5--------0/0/0-----------36------4
Nuclear Submarine-36/12/4-------2--------0/0/0-----------24-------2


Cruise missiles have an attack of 30 so if you have 2 of those on an Aegis Cruiser you should be able to severly damage if not destroy a Battleship from a safe distance.

 

[thestonesfan]

Well, if they'd given us more ships in the first place, so we could have at least two levels for Destroyers, Cruisers, Battleships, and Carriers, everything would be hunky-dory.

There's a Type-42 Destroyer in the works that looks good.

 

[Morbius]

yes, a battle ship can devastate all surface naval units if its close enough. but it has poor radar if any at all. you could install new electronics and cruise missiles like the americans did in the mid 80s, but that would mean its a different ship IMO. and even its been upgraded, the very concept is outdated: the heavy armor is no match for todays more powerful anti ship missiles and the maintenance costs for a real battleship are simply too high.

if the AEGIS cruiser can carry cruise missiles it might be realistic if the current stats are not too much enhanced, i agree.

however, a WWII or earlier destroyer should never engage a battleship ... or a cruiser, even if its a light one.

the chances that a WWI or WWII destroyer could really damage or endanger a cruiser or battleship are almost nonexistant to my knowledge.

todays AEGIS or other modern destroyers however can probably sink any ship if it doesnt take defensive measures.

im not an expert either, so if i made a mistake i will gratefully accept any corrections

 

[thestonesfan]

This is something for Civ4, but the concept of refitting ships would fit well in the game, I think. Not upgrades really, because it would stay the same unit, but the stats could be raised some, and maybe there could be a couple little graphical changes.

 

[cygnus]

Hey, I really wanted to check this MOD out so I did what most seem to do here, uninstall, reinstall, add patch, add MOD. But the game will get right up to starting and then crash. Am I missing something? Since LWC doesn't work for me anymore I haven't played in awhile. Oh ya, I did scandisk and all that stuff also. please help!

 

[mrgenie]

Ehhhh, uninstall reinstall add patch add MOD????????????????????????????????????????
que'es-ce que c'est???

before I saw this MODpack I installed alot of stuff into CIV and many things were really screwed up by all the stuff.....Then finally I installed this MOD and all the problems were gone ))) so, I don't know where you're crashes come from, but it's surely not by this MOD cus this MOD fix even my old screwed install )))