Doviello+

[Valkrionn]

Whoops. Forgot to include the building artdefines. The installers are about done, so it'll be included in that.

 

[Valkrionn]

Standalone installer is linked to on the first page. For the combined Malakim+/Doviello+ version, go to this thread.

 

[BenjaminEmbarec]

HOLY !@#!@#!!! Um... is this suppossed to happen? I just noticed it's been installing for half an hour, I opened the folder to take a peak....

C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Fall Further 050\DovielloPlus\DovielloPlus\DovielloPlus\DovielloPlus\DovielloPlus

And rising. It looks like it's copying itself exponentially.... I'm going to let it keep running for the hell of it and see how high it can get before I get a reply saying what I did wrong. XD

Edit: Scratch that, tried a second time after deleting and so far is normal... will edit if the problem occurs again.

Editedit: No, but apparently it's an invalid mod directory. Trying now to see if it works with malakim+, despite the fact that I dled the one that wasn't suppossed to be compatible with malakim+. XD

Editeditedit: Epic Fail, now Malakim+ is busted, but I bet it would work again once I took Doviello+ out. Gah.

Editediteditedit: Win! Dled it to the Malakim+ folder, then moved it to base FF folder. For some reason when I tried to install it to the ff folder orriginally it did that scary loop thing, but it installed perfectly to Malakim+... but wouldn't run. Now it's running fine. XD

 

[Valkrionn]

Hmmm... I have no idea in hell what could be causing that.

 

[Valkrionn]

Yeah, no idea why it did that.... thought it might be an upload error, as I can't upload my FFPlus installer(no idea why), so I downloaded it and ran it.... Only installed the one folder, everything works fine.

 

[TitanZ]

Started a game with the new release last night. Trying out Baron for leader for the first time, and I gotta say, Lycanthrope promotion makes the already strong starting Doviello very strong. Scouts with 3 are able to scout the map without fear of animals and run from anything and Beastmen at 2 make it much easier to take out the first civ you find. I probably could have taken out the first three civs I ran across before Orthus and the barbarians spawned and forced me to defend my cities. Lucian with his Battle-hardened promotion isn't as OP'ed as some were worrying about since his battle and duel xp can easily outpace his passive xp gain. I had a regular Beastman that got the Strong promotion from a Chaos flare and soon outpaced Lucian, especially once he was upgraded to a Son of Asena with bronze weapons.

The animal spawning system seems to work well. The spawns started slow, but once I was able to build Lion and Mammoth dens with about 8 cities the spawns became more frequent. I did notice that when I built a new den the spawn rate seemed to jump for awhile for the new animal. When I built the Mammoth den, for example, I got 4 mammoths in about 20 turns. Another thing of note was that there was no evidence of any animal dens on the city page and the only way to tell was by the promotions of units built there.

A couple of bugs I noticed were the any new promotions included in Doviello+ were pinked out. This in a fresh FF050, Patch N install. Also, I had a Lion Pride that had a Kindred Spirit spell that was always greyed out. Not sure about that one.

Oh, almost forgot the big one. I was able to build Baron and Varulv once I got Feral Bond. I thought Baron was unbuildable when he is a leader. They haven't been completed yet as I had to sleep, but will check on it tonight if I can get my thesis work done. FF + finals + thesis is not a good mix.

 

[Valkrionn]

Started a game with the new release last night. Trying out Baron for leader for the first time, and I gotta say, Lycanthrope promotion makes the already strong starting Doviello very strong. Scouts with 3 are able to scout the map without fear of animals and run from anything and Beastmen at 2 make it much easier to take out the first civ you find. I probably could have taken out the first three civs I ran across before Orthus and the barbarians spawned and forced me to defend my cities. Lucian with his Battle-hardened promotion isn't as OP'ed as some were worrying about since his battle and duel xp can easily outpace his passive xp gain. I had a regular Beastman that got the Strong promotion from a Chaos flare and soon outpaced Lucian, especially once he was upgraded to a Son of Asena with bronze weapons.

Might have to be toned down, but I can't think of anything else that fits...

The animal spawning system seems to work well. The spawns started slow, but once I was able to build Lion and Mammoth dens with about 8 cities the spawns became more frequent. I did notice that when I built a new den the spawn rate seemed to jump for awhile for the new animal. When I built the Mammoth den, for example, I got 4 mammoths in about 20 turns. Another thing of note was that there was no evidence of any animal dens on the city page and the only way to tell was by the promotions of units built there.

I didn't notice that... I'll have to check. They SHOULD be showing up in the city screen. There's no weighting towards new animals, it should just be an artifact of the random number generator.

A couple of bugs I noticed were the any new promotions included in Doviello+ were pinked out. This in a fresh FF050, Patch N install. Also, I had a Lion Pride that had a Kindred Spirit spell that was always greyed out. Not sure about that one.

Yeah, forgot to redirect some of the promotion art. It'll be in the first patch, but I want to get some balancing done before I release that.

The Kindred Spirit spell is from the 'Mark of the Lion' promotion... It's just Mezmerize Animal with a new name. To use it, find a wild animal. Lets you get tigers and gorillas...

Oh, almost forgot the big one. I was able to build Baron and Varulv once I got Feral Bond. I thought Baron was unbuildable when he is a leader. They haven't been completed yet as I had to sleep, but will check on it tonight if I can get my thesis work done. FF + finals + thesis is not a good mix.

Hmm. Last I checked the Baron WAS unbuildable... Might have missed something. I'll look into it.

 

[Valkrionn]

Oh, almost forgot the big one. I was able to build Baron and Varulv once I got Feral Bond. I thought Baron was unbuildable when he is a leader. They haven't been completed yet as I had to sleep, but will check on it tonight if I can get my thesis work done. FF + finals + thesis is not a good mix.

Found the bug..... When I merged all the modular xml into the main files, I renamed Duin to LEADER_DUIN2, so he wouldn't interfere with the Scenario leader in the event that the FF team updates them. Just had to add a '2' to the python block.

 

[Brokenbone]

This is a cool project, tried out the Doviello+ yesterday with the Baron leading. Oddly I could build BOTH the Baron and Varulv on Feral Bond, which I gather was a bug, presumably collected elsewhere by someone. Had also noticed Recon units could foolishly pick the 10 turn duration werewolfy type promotion with their hard earned experience too, which I see you've noted somewhere above as a problem.

Anyhow, I've never dominated a game like that before, the free +1 move from the Lycanthropic promo seems to have been a true killer. I just ended up sending a small stack of Beastmen and Lucian around as though they were a scouting party, looking for any telltale hint of colored cultural borders, didn't matter if it was another civ or the barbarians, they'd be coming out on top.

I do wonder if "Lycanthropic" applying to everyone may be where the unbalancing takes place. Maybe if it was recon-only it'd slow down the armies of conquest, instead portraying that only certain members of this society under the Baron were "wild enough" to have this affecting them so profoundly, i.e., the sneaky ones in the woods who stink at attacking cities, but who can be terrors in the field. It does help make up for the lack of a traditional "animal capturing role" that the recon line does have, since hey, Animals are already their buddies. Again, maybe just having Lycanthropic do something scary for the recon sorts might do, whether it's extra movement, some kind of combat bonus that isn't repetitive of Svart "sinister" promos, maybe randomly having the werewolfy type promos afflict them so if they happen to win a combat at such time, they might become a Ravenous Werewolf (which means it's your choice whether to gamble with a decent recon unit when you notice their blood's boiling a little hot!), don't know. I guess I'm just focussed on "having a fast melee-and-everyone-else army seems weird for this promotion."

I also have to commend the Scavenger promotion business, it does mean if you keep up a rolling, momentum type raiding life, you're neutralizing costs in some sense of a big army. Doviello who stay home and get fat in the garrison cost you gold, the ones out there destroying the world, manage to get fed and paid in the field with the blood, lands, cattle, gold of the enemy. Cool stuff. Forces you into the "lore" role of the Doviello, raid or go broke.

 

[Valkrionn]

I'm starting to agree that the movement is too much. If it was just Recon it would be fine, but the main point for the Lycanthropic promotion is that it allows Cannibalize, which I want them all to have... Maybe instead remove negative movement modifiers? So they could move through hills/forests at full speed, rather than gaining movement everywhere.....

And yes, both bugs you've mentioned are fixed, I'll be releasing a patch shortly. Also fixed the missing promotion buttons.

Edit: Adding in the Sabertooth and Hippogriff right now... Think the Hippogriff will actually have the same strength as a griffon, but will have a cargo space.

 

[TitanZ]

I'm starting to agree that the movement is too much. If it was just Recon it would be fine, but the main point for the Lycanthropic promotion is that it allows Cannibalize, which I want them all to have... Maybe instead remove negative movement modifiers? So they could move through hills/forests at full speed, rather than gaining movement everywhere.....

Removing negative terrain modifiers for all seems like a good compromise. With that and Cannabalize, I still think there needs to be some drawback to being a Lycanthrope, short of implementing silver weaponry.

maybe randomly having the werewolfy type promos afflict them so if they happen to win a combat at such time, they might become a Ravenous Werewolf (which means it's your choice whether to gamble with a decent recon unit when you notice their blood's boiling a little hot!), don't know.

Something along this line would be a cool mechanic. Werecreatures don't get to pick and choose when they turn. How about a promotion similar to Enraged (how about Howl at the Moon) that can randomly affect your Lycanthrope units or there is a chance it is set off by the smell of blood after battle. When they acquire Howl at the Moon they either need to lay low in a city (possibly with a building or Shaman unit to reduce the effects) or risk becoming a Ravenous Werewolf for 10 turns with any battle, or nearby battle. It's a risk/reward scenario where you could end up with a strong werewolf army or the possibility of losing your veteran units, but in either case it could be controlled, or at least lessened, by the player.

 

[Valkrionn]

Removing negative terrain modifiers for all seems like a good compromise. With that and Cannabalize, I still think there needs to be some drawback to being a Lycanthrope, short of implementing silver weaponry.

I think the lack of a religion is painful enough, actually, especially as he has nothing to improve the economy..... At least Charadon can go RoK.

Something along this line would be a cool mechanic. Werecreatures don't get to pick and choose when they turn. How about a promotion similar to Enraged (how about Howl at the Moon) that can randomly affect your Lycanthrope units or there is a chance it is set off by the smell of blood after battle. When they acquire Howl at the Moon they either need to lay low in a city (possibly with a building or Shaman unit to reduce the effects) or risk becoming a Ravenous Werewolf for 10 turns with any battle, or nearby battle. It's a risk/reward scenario where you could end up with a strong werewolf army or the possibility of losing your veteran units, but in either case it could be controlled, or at least lessened, by the player.

Something similar already exists with Feral Howl. The Baron's unique hero, Varulv, is able to cast it.... Enrages all recon units on his tile, and if they survive a combat they become Blooded Werewolves.


Okay, current Animal setup:

Mammoth - No replacement
Wolf - Becomes Wolf Pack with Warfare.
Griffon - Becomes Hippogriff with Stirrups. Same strength, has 1 cargo. Available to the Animal civ.
Lion - Becomes Sabretooth with Iron Working. 5 Available to the Animal civ.
Stag - Becomes Elk with Priesthood. Always gains your state religion, has Divine and several tier 2 spells. Beast rather than animal, harder for others to steal him. Making the Stag available to the Animal civ, but not the Elk.
Bear - Becomes Cave Bear with Divine Essence. Massive beast, 9 combat.

Need to add packs for the Hippogriff, Sabretooth, and Cave Bear..... Not sure on the max strengths. Think Hippogriff should be the same as the Griffin, Sabretooth around 16, and Cave Bear I'm not sure on, something high. Honestly, I'd even go as high as 30.... Gonna need a massive amount for that to happen anyway.

 

[Quetz]

I'd vote on higher is better.. the max strength isnt really as important as the starting with the de-emphasis on the worldpsell. Sabretooth should be 6 str imo.

Not sure based on what you posted if this is a fixed bug, but had AI Charadon build Varulv in my most recent game.

 

[Valkrionn]

I'd vote on higher is better.. the max strength isnt really as important as the starting with the de-emphasis on the worldpsell. Sabretooth should be 6 str imo.

Not sure based on what you posted if this is a fixed bug, but had AI Charadon build Varulv in my most recent game.

Settled on 27 for the Cave Bear Pack. Takes quite a few of them to get there, but it's possible if you save your worldspell for the endgame.

That's fixed in the upcoming(within the next 20 minutes) patch.

 

[WarKirby]

Edit: Adding in the Sabertooth and Hippogriff right now... Think the Hippogriff will actually have the same strength as a griffon, but will have a cargo space.

yaay


And less move cost for lycanthropic sounds nice.

But 27 strength cavebear packs does not sound nice. I don't think animals should be allowed to be more powerful than the dragons.
Remember that most endgame units are 14-18 str. I'd be wary about letting anything that isn't a world unit go above 20.

Divine essence seems like an unfairly high requirement for cave bears though. And also horribly thematically inappropriate

Unless they can use weapons, that is. Immortals may only be str9, but you're almost guaranteed to have mythril weapons for them, and they're well.... immortal.


I'd advise making cave bears str10-12, and setting the requirement at Feral bond.

 

[Quetz]

agree ^^^^^^

 

[Valkrionn]

yaay


And less move cost for lycanthropic sounds nice.

But 27 strength cavebear packs does not sound nice. I don't think animals should be allowed to be more powerful than the dragons.
Remember that most endgame units are 14-18 str. I'd be wary about letting anything that isn't a world unit go above 20.

Divine essence seems like an unfairly high requirement for cave bears though. And also horribly thematically inappropriate

Unless they can use weapons, that is. Immortals may only be str9, but you're almost guaranteed to have mythril weapons for them, and they're well.... immortal.


I'd advise making cave bears str10-12, and setting the requirement at Feral bond.

Think you misinterpreted me. The Cave Bear itself is only :str:9. The Cave Bear PACK starts at :str:12, and is able to move up to :str:27. Takes around 20-30 Cave Bears to get to max strength, which you likely won't get. The tech requirement is honestly the only thing I could think of. I'm not really satisfied with it either, but it's better than anything else would be. Feral Bond might work, or I might end up transferring Lions to a different lion, but I'm not sure what would be appropriate.

 

[Valkrionn]

Patch is out, linked on the first post. Full changelog as well.... If you're playing on FFPlus, it has a patch as well, including Mailbox's Legion of D'tesh civilization.

 

[Tasunke]

I never knew mahala was a girl .... woah

 

[Valkrionn]

Ha. That's why I changed the artwork.