Doviello+

First very cool ideas indeed. I was always sceptical for changes for my favorite civ but I think those ideas keep the idea Doviello are about. I actually consider these mechanics very cool and I will definitely try it once again I get a version of windows that works. Still I have some points.

First a strategical one.
Honestly, I'm a bit worried about it too, but things like a spawn rate can be toned down easily, promotion effects can be played with, etc... My primary concerns are actually the Duel System/XP share.... Tried just sitting Lucian in my capital, building warriors and then dueling them... ended up after sacrificing 6 or 7 with warriors starting at 20something xp. :eek: Yes, it may take more time than just using them for a warrior rush... But it's MUCH more effective. Not a whole lot can stand up to a shock2 warrior early game.
I don't know, but in my games with Charadon in vanilla FFH I always had more than 20something XP with Lucian before having built 6 to 7 warriors and I actually did nothing else but building warriors. Just declare war on the first dude you see and attack his scout which will get you about 4 xp and shock I then go for his capital and attack it with the protection of the other units available from the start. As the first units the AI has are still warriors without promotions your chance to win these fights is very high and attacking gives you very many xp so you will get one more likely two promotions which turn Lucian very quickly into a killing machine.

In your modmod this strategy is even more effective as you will have shock I/combat II after 4 turns and don't even need a scout that gives you the first xp (If you get him it is of course still better). Additionally Lucian will regenerate very quickly as the scavenger promotion grants him a healing rate equal to neutral terrain, you lose no precious turns if he gets seriously injured before gaining the march promotion and if you miss 1 xp for a new promotion that regenerates him you will get it after two turns. The higher XP rate per killed unit accelerates the process from combat I to Combat III+March+ShockI+II even more. Once you reach Heroic Strength I he is invincible anyway. I'm anxious to know how many opponents I can crush in hundred turns in Doviello + (my record for FFH was 3). The only thing that disturbs me is that Charadon has lost barbarian as that means you really have to take care of the barbs which can be more than an annoyance if you raze every city the AI built wrong/ you cannot support. But there has to be a certain challenge and thus I'm not really complaining. All in all Doviello got much stronger warmongers and Charadon is IMHO even a bit overpowered right now.

The flavor mechanics are also very cool. The Mammoth riders remind me of the Wildlings from Song of Ice and Fire and I loved that part where Jon was on their side for a while.

I will also try the animal mechanic. It does not help a lot for the strategy I described, but as I always love new ways to play the game I want to find the synergies hidden in them. (Ah and I'd love to see Fenrir as a late game unit for them. IMHO would fit them very good)

At last a question (as I can't try it right now): Can slaves use the duel system? As this way Slavery would also be very useful for Charadon as he could duel all his slaves before upgrading the best ones to warriors (This way he would not have to pay the costs - just for the surviving ones) Would also fit flavorwise: Slaves are thrown in the pits with nothing but their pure body to fight each other. Only those that face up to these fights and survive them are not killed by the beastmen watching and are perhaps integrated into the pack.
 
First very cool ideas indeed. I was always sceptical for changes for my favorite civ but I think those ideas keep the idea Doviello are about. I actually consider these mechanics very cool and I will definitely try it once again I get a version of windows that works. Still I have some points.

Glad you like them. :goodjob:

First a strategical one.

I don't know, but in my games with Charadon in vanilla FFH I always had more than 20something XP with Lucian before having built 6 to 7 warriors and I actually did nothing else but building warriors. Just declare war on the first dude you see and attack his scout which will get you about 4 xp and shock I then go for his capital and attack it with the protection of the other units available from the start. As the first units the AI has are still warriors without promotions your chance to win these fights is very high and attacking gives you very many xp so you will get one more likely two promotions which turn Lucian very quickly into a killing machine.

In your modmod this strategy is even more effective as you will have shock I/combat II after 4 turns and don't even need a scout that gives you the first xp (If you get him it is of course still better). Additionally Lucian will regenerate very quickly as the scavenger promotion grants him a healing rate equal to neutral terrain, you lose no precious turns if he gets seriously injured before gaining the march promotion and if you miss 1 xp for a new promotion that regenerates him you will get it after two turns. The higher XP rate per killed unit accelerates the process from combat I to Combat III+March+ShockI+II even more. Once you reach Heroic Strength I he is invincible anyway. I'm anxious to know how many opponents I can crush in hundred turns in Doviello + (my record for FFH was 3). The only thing that disturbs me is that Charadon has lost barbarian as that means you really have to take care of the barbs which can be more than an annoyance if you raze every city the AI built wrong/ you cannot support. But there has to be a certain challenge and thus I'm not really complaining. All in all Doviello got much stronger warmongers and Charadon is IMHO even a bit overpowered right now.

I'd tend to agree, but the OP is temporary... Still haven't messed with MrUnderhill's code, but I'm planning on it.

The flavor mechanics are also very cool. The Mammoth riders remind me of the Wildlings from Song of Ice and Fire and I loved that part where Jon was on their side for a while.

I will also try the animal mechanic. It does not help a lot for the strategy I described, but as I always love new ways to play the game I want to find the synergies hidden in them. (Ah and I'd love to see Fenrir as a late game unit for them. IMHO would fit them very good)

One interesting mechanic is actually rushing KotE... The Stags can cast haste and treetop defense, so having a few makes your stack much stronger. The Recon line is also powerful now because of the Griffons...

I considered something along those lines, but in the end decided to limit it to a single unit, only buildable by the Baron... Werewolves are powerful. If nothing else, Fenrir might be a better name than Varulv...

At last a question (as I can't try it right now): Can slaves use the duel system? As this way Slavery would also be very useful for Charadon as he could duel all his slaves before upgrading the best ones to warriors (This way he would not have to pay the costs - just for the surviving ones) Would also fit flavorwise: Slaves are thrown in the pits with nothing but their pure body to fight each other. Only those that face up to these fights and survive them are not killed by the beastmen watching and are perhaps integrated into the pack.

Last time I tested the duel system exhaustively, yes they could. Settlers, workers, and animals are blocked, but slaves are eligible... I originally had it set to upgrade slaves to warriors if they win a duel, can't remember if that made it in or not.
 
I wonder if anyone can help me. i wanted to try out doviello+ but i can't get it installed properly. if i extract it to the assets folder of FF050 it does nothing. if i put it in modules folder it loads up but i get a lot of xml errors when starting a game + a lot of graphics errors ,bison resources and the like just show up like a pinkish blob. Can anyone tell me what i am doing wrong.
 
modular loading is on so that won't fix my problem.
should it be put in folder modules or just extracted to assets folder of FF050. if i extract to assets folder it creates your folder there with assets in wich is also a modules,python and xml folder. how does the game know what to read?
 
Ah, just extract to FF 050. The assets folder will overwrite certain xml/python files, and will create a modules folder. If you extract into FF050/Assets, you'll get errors.

ok thanks, i will try that after i get through my current game.
 
AGH! Been trying for two days now to figure out why my new 'combine pack' spells weren't working for the Lion Pride and Bear Pack, but worked fine for the Griffon Flight.... Turns out I forgot to add _(Animal here) at the end of the spell name, so the Griffon spell, being at the bottom, overwrote all the others. Been combing the python, when it was a tiny xml error. :wallbash:
 
It's always the little things that get you.

I tore my hair out for 2 days trying to figure out why my sabathiel module spells wouldn't work. Turns out I forgot to point the spellinfos at the correct schema
 
Well, now that it's working finally, there's not much left to do... Have to add the packs to the worldspell, so wolf packs can spawn wolves, etc, and I'm going to change spawning slightly.... Add in a modifier for FoL, and add more powerful animals. For now, since I don't really have the artwork, I'm just going to modify the animal's base strength at certain techs. Will work on a Sabertooth, a Hypogriff, and a Giant Deer later on. Maybe a Worg as well.

Also, what are good top strengths for the different packs? I know wolf packs are topped at 10, but I don't want the others at the same cap. Thinking 12-13 for Lions, 15 for Griffons, and 18 for Bears?
 
So, getting very close to a release now. Just need to code Varulv's ability.

I just added in the ability for the various packs to create dens. The 'Create Bear Den' spell has been changed from bears to bear packs, but Bears and Griffons now have a chance to upgrade to their respective packs. They do NOT spawn new animals like wolves, they simply gain some strength and the ability to create a den. Wolf Packs, Lion Prides, Griffon Flights, and Bear Packs are all able to create dens for ANY civilization, but the Animal civ and the Doviello will be the main casters. :lol: Basically, it allows you to turn your extra animals loose if you want, and still use them against your enemy... Plop a griffon den next to a civ's borders and watch their workers die. :satan:

Edit: Went with strength 12 max for Lion Prides, 15 for Griffon Flights, and 18 for Bear Packs.
 
Great news on the imminent release. Really looking forward to trying the new mechanics and world spell. Doviello have become one of my preferred civs with this mod. Not because they are overpowered, but because now they are kewl.

Side note: Groups of bears are called sleuths. Yeah, it sucks, but a pack of bears sounds weird, too. How about if bears just upgrade to dire bear or cave bear. Rock on, Valkrionn.
 
When you move the new animals (and animal packs) to join the Animal Civilization, don't forget to allow for WEAKER versions as well. Way back when I was just Modcomp'ing it, I had introduced more animals at one point, and mostly it was pack versions of everything which were stronger and could spawn more of the base animal. But bears were so strong to begin with, and made no sense in a pack (which works as a generic term for any group of land animals like flock works for flying animals, since every animal has a unique name for a group and it is a PITA to memorize all of them, though a flock of crows is a Murder, and everyone should learn that one :p I must admit giving a group of bears a stealthy sounding name is almost equally amusing), so I added Bear Cubs. Seemed fitting, and provided another weak item for scouts to get early XP off of (since there were now so many more things to kill them, it was quite needed).

And of course with the tags that exist today you can even code a chance that killing a Bearcub spawns an Enraged Momma Bear ;)
 
Still haven't decided whether or not to allow Stags for the animals, but I'm leaning towards allowing them to attack after all, and having them out in the wild...

Once I get the new animals I want, either from Warkirby or myself once I get around to it, they'll be allowed for the Animal civ, but will upgrade from a weak version.


Edit: Think I've got the spell done. Testing it now... very easy actually. All handled via promotions, only needed to write enough python to convert the unit to a blooded werewolf, set the race to werewolf, and remove the initial promo.
 
New version out, I'll update the first post after I sleep... If you follow the link from the second post, everything but animals gaining strength over time is in. Might try my hand at that, but it'll require DLL work. It's still modular, I'll likely be changing that and making installers soon.

All changes are detailed in a Doviello+ concept section in the 'pedia. I recommend you read it. :p

One word of warning: I have not tested the FF version, just used winmerge to copy the work over. Shouldn't have any issues, but I may have missed something.
 
Boo @ modular. I cant get it to work. Feel like a nub for cluttering the thread, but I am pretty sure I'm doing it right - I installed Malakim+, unzipped to malakim+ dir, overwrite assets, everything looks like it's right.. but I still get an XML errors on load and the mod does nothing (and modular loading is on.)

So annoying. Installer please! XD

more detailed: I get "trait feral infoclass was incorrect" as the xml error. I do start at peace with animals, but cannot select the Baron as leader and see no Bison.

edit 2: Got the normal FF version to work. Get an xml error about camels though o.o And can't see the unit promotion list in Worldbuilder. Also, getting random spells on my build units like Haste and Wall of Stone.
 
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