Doviello+

[Calavente]

The "gather food" promo seems fun.

I don't think it would be overpowered : 2 food for killing 1 ennemy unit. (especially if limited to recon line)
you would need to kill lots of units and come back home to make it worthwhile.
and 3 Food is not a lot. it's not 1food per turn per city or anything like it.
+ you can't kill animals so the +50% vs animal doesn't count so no "easy kill" for recon units.

might be worthwhile if killing non-living units (catapults, golems, undeads) brought you 1 or 2 per kill. it would be fun and clearly not overpowered. even if you kill 15 unit per turn, it would give you 15 : not really much.

if you try to stock it for a wonder : your veteran units, having killed many units, would be in your territory and not sacking ennemies.
(it won't be too powerful as adopting slavery and capturing slave or going COE and pillaging and buying slaves would still be way better, especially as non-living units are not the majority of units)

I like this idea

 

[Valkrionn]

Exactly, forcing them to carry the food back causes the whole system to balance itself. Simply by virtue of returning with the food, your units are not out attacking... It's main use would be in the early game, and could potentially allow you to steamroll, but the simple act of returning with the food prevents you from steamrolling.

All credit for the idea goes Opera, from whom I am stealing it.

Edit: One note: I'm thinking of allowing the Animal civ to build Wolf Dens as well. Will not be allowing Griffon Weyrs though... they hurt too much. Updated the first post.

 

[Valkrionn]

Considering granting the Doviello increased yields from animal dens, and reducing/disallowing regular improvements.... Not sure. Sounds interesting, and would get the AI to spam the improvements....

 

[25Hour]

Exactly, forcing them to carry the food back causes the whole system to balance itself. Simply by virtue of returning with the food, your units are not out attacking... It's main use would be in the early game, and could potentially allow you to steamroll, but the simple act of returning with the food prevents you from steamrolling.

I dunno... sounds like a lot of micromanagement for relatively small gain. I don't see small, irregular inputs of food as being very valuable, since you generally want sustainable cities. Hammers or gold would end up requiring less micro, and also would have some use in the mid-late game.

What about granting Doviello units the ability to "live off the land" by having them be No Maintenance units... but ONLY while on enemy territory? This would encourage a state of near-perpetual war for the sake of not having to pay money for your army, and would also enable the Doviello to support a larger army than the Clan (since the Clan pays for all of its units). This would differentiate them nicely-- the Doviello can have a very large number of units that have to be conserved, whereas the Clan can have a more moderate number of units that are also highly expendable. It would also give the Doviello a fun toy to play with in the mid-to-late game, since they don't have anything in the way of UUs beyond an arguably weak, yet expensive Champion.

If you wanted to be really cruel, you could give Doviello units the ability to inflict -1 food/culture on any enemy city they're next to, thereby potentially causing them to starve/riot. Seiges have never been so fun!

I have a few scripts lying around that I was going to use for the Doviello.
My idea was to let new Doviello units inherit XP from your existing army, but with diminishing returns so as to discourage swarming. I made Lucian a full hero so he could "jump-start" the Doviello gene pool, and in playtesting it worked out really well in the early game. You have to manage your units so that they don't dilute the XP bonus, and sending weak units on suicide missions can be an effective way to deal with weak units, just like in the lore. If they win, they get more XP. If not, they free up some XP for the next generation.

AWESOME. That could be really quite nasty with Apprenticeship and like civics, if I'm reading it correctly! Definitely a fun mid-late game toy for the Doviello, plus an incentive for lots and lots of warfare. Sounds fantastic.

 

[Valkrionn]

I dunno... sounds like a lot of micromanagement for relatively small gain. I don't see small, irregular inputs of food as being very valuable, since you generally want sustainable cities. Hammers or gold would end up requiring less micro, and also would have some use in the mid-late game.

The way I'd like it to work is for you to gain a decent return on the investment. Mainly, it would help growing cities up to max, particularly when you've got slow initial growth times.

What about granting Doviello units the ability to "live off the land" by having them be No Maintenance units... but ONLY while on enemy territory? This would encourage a state of near-perpetual war for the sake of not having to pay money for your army, and would also enable the Doviello to support a larger army than the Clan (since the Clan pays for all of its units). This would differentiate them nicely-- the Doviello can have a very large number of units that have to be conserved, whereas the Clan can have a more moderate number of units that are also highly expendable. It would also give the Doviello a fun toy to play with in the mid-to-late game, since they don't have anything in the way of UUs beyond an arguably weak, yet expensive Champion.

That could be interesting... I'll put in in the 'Ideas to consider' category.

AWESOME. That could be really quite nasty with Apprenticeship and like civics, if I'm reading it correctly! Definitely a fun mid-late game toy for the Doviello, plus an incentive for lots and lots of warfare. Sounds fantastic.

Not sure about it yet, but it DOES sound fun.

 

[Opera]

Something sounds familiar here

About the soulforge-esque building, I'll use it in the Ngomele mod. I think it's possible to restrict it to living unit (I should just have to add a if check in python).

Otherwise, you had nice ideas. I liked the Ingenuity trait for Mahala, though.

 

[Valkrionn]

Something sounds familiar here

About the soulforge-esque building, I'll use it in the Ngomele mod. I think it's possible to restrict it to living unit (I should just have to add a if check in python).

Otherwise, you had nice ideas. I liked the Ingenuity trait for Mahala, though.

Hehe yeah. I like the idea..... Not sure if I'll use it or not though.

 

[Opera]

Oh, I forgot: will you make Mahala neutral, as in Orbis? She just doesn't smell evil. And I like her a lot. Being good myself, it's a pain in the ass to come up with fantasies... huh, nevermind

 

[Valkrionn]

Not sure. Something to think about at least.

At the moment, I'm busy setting up lair graphics, and importing the Mammoth from AoI. Trying to get it done, so I can sleep... 4:30 here. Looks like I'm finished though... just gotta test it.

 

[Opera]

Not sure. Something to think about at least.

At the moment, I'm busy setting up lair graphics, and importing the Mammoth from AoI. Trying to get it done, so I can sleep... 4:30 here. Looks like I'm finished though... just gotta test it.

It seems that there is a Mammoth in Orbis. I don't remember having ever seen it but it's in the unit list.

 

[Valkrionn]

It seems that there is a Mammoth in Orbis. I don't remember having ever seen it but it's in the unit list.

Hmm, why yes there is.... Exactly the unit from AoI though, so I'm fine. Even imported the same pedia entry. It DID remind me to add winterborn to it, though.... Already made it a UU for the Animal civ, same as the Elephant.

 

[sylvain5477]

Can you make a limit like for lanun port as to the distance between 3 dens so that we cannot just cover the map with them ?

 

[Valkrionn]

That would require a spell, which would basically prevent the AI from using it. I'm thinking of limiting the lairs to spawning 1 or 2 animals and adding Civ yields to them, so you actually CAN spam them across the map. Since most of what would be spammed would be wolf-dens, it should work out fairly well.... Could make for a monster world spell though. Have to look at that.

 

[Droon]

First of I'm not that into the lore part so don't know if anything goes against that consept, but I think Doviello should be more tied to wolfs and animals living in cold places so skip the lions.

Dens
As for dens it would be nice to see the improve over time when worked by a city.
I don't think they should increase yelds, or alteast not by much since they will spawn free units and that should be sufficiant. And if possible they should need to be worked in order to spawn units.

I was thinking something in the line of wolf dens.
3 stages. First spawns wolfs 2str max wolfpack str 5, Second Dire wolfs 4 str max pack 10str, Final Elder wolfs 6str max pack 15str. Spawnrate about 1% per den and turn.
15str packs might seem alot but since we used to be able to get 50str packs and animals should not gain def bonuses it's not high imo.

Shapeshifting
Think I've seen it somewhere else before, don't remember where thou.
Three possible paths for recon units. Requires promotions to take. Only one path per recon unit.
Shapeshifting done through a spell that disables other actions/move on that turn.
If not shapeshifted acts like the normal recon unit.

Wolf path
Hunter (Wolf, 4str, 3mov), Ranger (Dire wolf, 7str, 3 mov), Beastmaster (Elder wolf, 14str, 3mov) Possible additional promo: Rabies +1 Posion str?

Bear path
Hunter (Bear, 6str, 1mov), Ranger (Grizzly bear, 9str, 1 mov), Beastmaster (Polar bear, 16str, 1mov)
Possible additional promo: Some kind of fury promo

Eagle path
Hunter (Eagle, 2str, 2mov, flying (better vision?)), Ranger (Great Eagle, 4str, 2mov, flying), Beastmaster (Golden Eagle, 7str, 2mov, flying)

If not shapeshifted the recon units should be able to cast regen at hunter, and mesmorize at ranger. Regen to make it benificial to unshift to heal, and mesmorize so that you can capture animals to build cages in cities (this is if Doviello gain peace with animals civ so that they can't attack and capture the normal way, not sure if this would work but something like it atleast).

Animal joining
Just something to think about.
The possiblity for units to add animals created through the dens to gain str promos.
Wolfs + 20%
Dire + 30%
Elder + 40%
Only one promo per unit.

I do like the thought of sabretooths (don't know how they should be gained thou, perhaps normal spawning in snow and need to be captured)
Add gives unit fear.

Mammoth riders would be wonderfull, make it a resource that can be found in ice/snow and gives ivory. Rework there mounted line to have mammoths with normal speed on snow/tundra but -1 mov on other terrain. They should also gain a str bonus compaired to the other mounted counterparts.

Worldspell
If the dens are added as i suggested the world spell could be reworked so that on the next turn all dens spawns their animal.

 

[Valkrionn]

First of I'm not that into the lore part so don't know if anything goes against that consept, but I think Doviello should be more tied to wolfs and animals living in cold places so skip the lions.

Main reason for the lions and other animals is filler. I want enough that you can have some variety, and enough to reward each tech path.

Dens
As for dens it would be nice to see the improve over time when worked by a city.
I don't think they should increase yelds, or alteast not by much since they will spawn free units and that should be sufficiant. And if possible they should need to be worked in order to spawn units.

I was thinking something in the line of wolf dens.
3 stages. First spawns wolfs 2str max wolfpack str 5, Second Dire wolfs 4 str max pack 10str, Final Elder wolfs 6str max pack 15str. Spawnrate about 1% per den and turn.
15str packs might seem alot but since we used to be able to get 50str packs and animals should not gain def bonuses it's not high imo.

Not a bad idea, something for me to think about. Don't think I can limit spawning to the tile being worked, however.

Shapeshifting
Think I've seen it somewhere else before, don't remember where thou.
Three possible paths for recon units. Requires promotions to take. Only one path per recon unit.
Shapeshifting done through a spell that disables other actions/move on that turn.
If not shapeshifted acts like the normal recon unit.

Wolf path
Hunter (Wolf, 4str, 3mov), Ranger (Dire wolf, 7str, 3 mov), Beastmaster (Elder wolf, 14str, 3mov) Possible additional promo: Rabies +1 Posion str?

Bear path
Hunter (Bear, 6str, 1mov), Ranger (Grizzly bear, 9str, 1 mov), Beastmaster (Polar bear, 16str, 1mov)
Possible additional promo: Some kind of fury promo

Eagle path
Hunter (Eagle, 2str, 2mov, flying (better vision?)), Ranger (Great Eagle, 4str, 2mov, flying), Beastmaster (Golden Eagle, 7str, 2mov, flying)

If not shapeshifted the recon units should be able to cast regen at hunter, and mesmorize at ranger. Regen to make it benificial to unshift to heal, and mesmorize so that you can capture animals to build cages in cities (this is if Doviello gain peace with animals civ so that they can't attack and capture the normal way, not sure if this would work but something like it atleast).

Shapeshifting is in Orbis, but to be honest, I just don't really care much for it. The mesmerize idea could be useful, if just for the tigers/gorillas that they don't get to spawn.

Animal joining
Just something to think about.
The possiblity for units to add animals created through the dens to gain str promos.
Wolfs + 20%
Dire + 30%
Elder + 40%
Only one promo per unit.

I do like the thought of sabretooths (don't know how they should be gained thou, perhaps normal spawning in snow and need to be captured)
Add gives unit fear.

Mammoth riders would be wonderfull, make it a resource that can be found in ice/snow and gives ivory. Rework there mounted line to have mammoths with normal speed on snow/tundra but -1 mov on other terrain. They should also gain a str bonus compaired to the other mounted counterparts.

Haha, not doing the mounted line rework again. Had enough problems last time.

I was actually already considering allowing animals to join with a melee unit, pretty much along the lines of what you said.

If I put in Mammoth riders, they'll be implemented just like the Elephant riders. Just need some different stats... Probably higher defense. That hair has to be good for something, after all.

Worldspell
If the dens are added as i suggested the world spell could be reworked so that on the next turn all dens spawns their animal.

That's not a bad idea... Don't know if I can do it or not, but definitely something to think about.

 

[Breez]

Mostly because I like the image of barbarians running up with whatever they can find, and as they conquer swapping out their improvised weaponry for plundered shinies.

You're right though, it would probably be too large a nerf.

You could make it so they get Bronze weapons at Iron Working and Iron weapons at miteral working and the only way to get Mitheral weapons would be by capturing them.

Could make a +10% bonus available at bronze working that gets replaced by the weapon line so they are not completely disadvantaged.

 

[Breez]

From OP

[*]Charadon and Mahala both receive the Feral trait; Charadon keeps Barbarian as well.

...

[*]Charadon becomes Aggressive/Warlord, loses Barbarian.Done

• 
  
  Contradicting bullet points you may want to correct to avoid confusion.

 

[Valkrionn]

Alright, the Doviello are now able to build animal lairs... Lion/Bear/Wolf lairs can be built outside of Doviello territory, in which case they'll spawn for the Animal civ.

• Wolf Den - Available at game start. Grassland/Plains/Tundra. Any tile with Forest. Flatland only.
• Lion Den - Mining. Grassland/Plains. Flatland only.
• Bear Den - Smelting. Plains/Tundra. Any tile with Forest. Flatland only.
• Griffon Weyr - Animal Handling. Any hill tile.
• Mammoth Den - Horseback Riding. Tundra/Ice. Flatland only.

 

[Valkrionn]

You could make it so they get Bronze weapons at Iron Working and Iron weapons at miteral working and the only way to get Mitheral weapons would be by capturing them.

Could make a +10% bonus available at bronze working that gets replaced by the weapon line so they are not completely disadvantaged.

That would weaken them quite a bit, but might balance being able to steal weapons....

From OP

Contradicting bullet points you may want to correct to avoid confusion.

That's out of context. The first quote is from the 'Current Changelog' section, while the second is from the 'Future Changes' section. Only says Done next to it so I can keep track of what's left to do before releasing a new version.

 

[Breez]

[*]Food from combat.
[*]"Live off the land" - Units cost no maintenance while in enemy territory.

You could basically make these related. The savaged food = no maintenance. There fore avoiding worrying about cities and how the food get there.

Either make it simply permanent, a simple solution (basically just justification for no maintenance). Or make a promotion that auto casts after combat giving the unit no Maintenance got X number of turns.

I think I like the idea of them living off their findings more than shipping it home.