Dragonborn

What Bobchinski said, only that they won't neglect those players who like the flavor-classes more but instead release a book containing all those later. (PHB2 is already announced to contain all these classes and races.)

That reeks alot like milking the fans in any way possible. :p (not all serious but still has a hint of truth in it. ;) No wonder since they are comercial head to toe.)


So seems not so much dumbing down the core of the system as catering to the average new players first (by realeasing a bare skelleton of a game first so everyone gets to grasp the basics) and adressing the old fans later... (i reckon that the other classes / races will need new features that are not in the main books / rules yet, but will be released as time goes by. Making more money along the way of course... :lol:)
And seriously they whould be dumb to downright smite those more flavor-oriented players in the face. (I find it quite strange that they will take half a year to introduce those classes... Might backfire i reckon. We will see...)


Some promising things, other things rather hard to stomach (Most importantly the missing flavor classes. Especially Druid :mad:.).
But all in all for me it perhaps will be a bit of testing and waiting until the game is more solidly fleshed out (For me the time when PHB2 comes out most likely.). If it turns out good one can still embrace it.
Even though i do indeed like the stronger emphasis on teamplay / cooperation.

(Even if up to a certain point i share the sentiment of the dragonborn race seeming like a simple-mixup low-flavor powerplay race put in to appeal to a certain kind of gamer which didn't find D&D apealing before.)

Biggest plus for me is that they finally de-facto axed the alignment sytem / "play how your class / alignment dictates or be divinely punished if you go stray from that prescribed path" junk.
Gives the game the potential to go away from some if its worst stereotypes and stretches in a party working together and leaves more room for personal motivation / background / roleplay.

All in all i think the game is far from ready right now so i don't try to compare it to 3,5. Few new versions could hope of accomplishing something like that at the very start.
 
I think they should be one of the experiments from the Age of Magic.

The archmages of that age created a lot of races by combining animals and experimenting. Griffons, chimeras, trolls, manticores, centaurs. Some of these species remained bestial, some made from men became savage, some made from men became goodly races.

Lizardmen would have been a good race to have been created through these experiments. Later they would ally themselves with the Clan of Embers (since they are both hunted by men) but I like that they would have a different origon than the rest fo the clan races.

I suppose they could have been elves, aifons or humans merged with lizards. Maybe each would have developed a different species of lizardman.

I wouldnt want them to be related to dragons.

Well, the scientific explanation would be that a prehistoric reptile (presumably lizard) species evolved bipedalism, intelligence, and the opposable thumb, and eventually evolved into today's lizardmen.

Of course, the magical explanation you propose is more fun. :)
 
*clears throat* Excuse me, is this a thread about DnD?
 
um... "maybe"
"cowers under 4E fighter (DRAGONBORN) char sheet"
 
This discussion has inspired me to think that perhaps the Kuriotate Immortal and Marksman should look a little draconic in nature, like they're taking on something of the nature of Eurabatres...
 
So, a sort of Dragon Disciple idea? Yeah, could do, could do.
This is Bella Soma.
 
I don't think the Marksman ought to look draconic. Doesn't really fit, seeing as they really don't have any special powers. They're just exceptionally skilled archers. Immortals, though, hell yes. Especially since Immortals come at the same time as Eurabatres himself regains form, it's very fitting that they would be empowered by him.
 
You know, I :agree:. Maybe explain it as some sort of "dragonic blood transfusion", or that Kurio immortal are Cult of the Dragon fanatics who have been magic modified since birth to have dragonic blood or something, but I like the idea. Of course, it should probably be limited to wings, lightly scaled features, maybe claws.
 
Breath weapon for first strikes :mischief:

Actually, making it an Unique Unit rather than just a cosmetic difference could be interesting, and allow for fun things like perhaps Roar or Breathe Fire :D
 
Hmmm...

Disciple of the Dragon (Disciple Units)
Replaces Immortal
strength.gif
7
:move: 2
Starts with Immortal, Regeneration, Fire II
Reqs Cult of the Dragon
Reqs Kuriotates or Sheaim civilization
Reqs Divine Essence


I don't remember exactly what were the statistics of Immortals... I hope I got them right. But you get the idea, Immortals with natural Regeneration and Fire II, and they're Disciple units rather than Melee units. I'm not an expert, but, well... I think that they should look neither Good-aligned nor Evil-aligned, only Neutral-aligned, because if it's going to be for both Kuriotates and Sheaim, then I think they should have a 'good' and 'evil' appearance at the same time.
 
I'm all for having disciples to spread the Cult of the Dragon, but I don't think that they should be Immortal UUs. They should come much earlier, and not be so powerful.

I also don't think that the Sheaim and Kuriotates should have the same Immortal UU.

You know, currently the Sheaim cannot get Immortals at all. (Well, I guess they could capture a rivals, but that's it.) I haven't actually heard anyone complain about this, but it seems like a big disadvantage. Since the Sheaim really don't have a Melee line, I'm thinking it might be better to make Eater of Dreams immortal.
 
You know, currently the Sheaim cannot get Immortals at all. (Well, I guess they could capture a rivals, but that's it.) I haven't actually heard anyone complain about this, but it seems like a big disadvantage. Since the Sheaim really don't have a Melee line, I'm thinking it might be better to make Eater of Dreams immortal.

How does adding the Immortal promotion when they "Consume Soul" sound?
 
Well, I think the point is that they can get it over and over again this way (with a cost), instead of losing it and being permanently mortal. You could also just make them intrinsically Immortal, but I believe that would stop them from being able to become Liches.

Edit: ok, it doesn't, but it probably should.
 
Ah, temporary immortality. Well, that's a little different, but it's hardly something they need. I think there's a reason spell-casters aren't immortals.

Aye - I'd agree that spell casters in general are potent and should be fragile, which immortality negates. This is a fairly specific case however where the civ has no access to immortals of other types but does have a unit that thematically would suit it ("Consume Soul" sounds not unlike the method by which Vampires/Sidar prolong their lives).

Sheaim casters would also have a pretty solid case for being inclined to try such things - they'd also be fairly well versed in all sorts of forbidden lore.

==

It'd be an easy tweak to implement if it was done simply through Consume Soul (which as Magister said, applies a cost to the benefit - which is correctly evil and at the expense of the people rather than the unit) - but I'm still pondering if it would need an additional balancing factor. Should Eaters of Dreams be able to be *that* powerful?

I tend to see the Sheaim as being a "late game civ" - having their top level casters able to get involved directly in combat without the paranoia of losing them would fit with that. I must admit though that I haven't really played enough Sheaim games in recent versions to have a good feel for how potent they are anyway.
 
Give it a 25% chance to give immortality, that might be appropriate. You aren't really going to spam consume soul unless you need the summons anyway, probably.
The thing is, I'd totally spam Consume Soul if I knew I'd get Immortality out of it sooner or later. Citizens are cheap, Eaters of Dreams aren't :D
 
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