Dragonborn

Niley

Chieftain
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Aug 18, 2008
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Poland
Hello everybody. I've got just a small question.

Are there creatures like the Dragonborn in Erebus? You know, humans with some draconic heritage? I started wondering when I first saw Lizardmen, but maybe it's quite unlikely, because the only dragons I saw in FfH were big mean bad lizards ;) but what about the Kuriotates and the Sheaim? They think that dragons are divine and worship them, so isn't there a chance that, let's say, a child from an orthodox CotD family would have some dragon features?
If it is possible, then it'd be a really good idea for a high-level unit for future FfH releases...
 
Nope.

Dragons are the Equivilent of Intelligent Nukes... created by the gods in the past ages. most of them are now asleep.
 
I'd probably agree with thomas.berubeg, but I don't think there is technically anything saying "intelligent nukes" couldn't reproduce.

The Dragons were all locked away in some sort of storage dimension for at the end of the Godswar. I had assumed that this was a provision in the Compact, but Kael has stated that gods were not forbidden from "waking up their pets" (Mulcarn was not breaking the compact by waking Drifa or Fiacra, but of course he did break it by entering and conquering Erebus). It is most likely that they were simply not suited for the subtler types of conflict that the Compact still allowed, and so were no longer considered useful. From time to time a dragon escaped back into creation (perhaps released, perhaps escaped...or maybe not all the god had bothered to lock them up in the first place), but most of these were slain by heroes of the Age of Magic.

It is known that Acheron was able to use the passion and hatred of a group of barbarian orks to create for himself a passage back to Erebus. It is also known that Acheron had always been a rebellious beast, who bit the hand of his maker (Bhall) as soon as he was created. I believe this means he was made to be a weapon of good against the evils of Mulcarn, but that he chose to fall long before his mistress did. Since Bhall was one of the most active goddesses, I expect she may have made many other red dragons too.

Abashi was Ceridwen's dragon, who was awakened in the Age of rebirth though Sheaim Rituals. Tebyrn released her, and inscribed a rune on her head that would resurrect him whenever he was killed, until the rune was dispelled--which would require slaying the great dragon.

Eurabatres was Amathaon's Dragon (I'd guess his only one, as his creator was the gentlest of the gods), who is the strongest being ever created (except by The One). That means he is greater even than any archangel, even Cernunnos, and he possessed the immense genius of his maker. His consciousness found an escape from the storage dimension, and wandered creation looking for a perfect host, free of the taint of Agares. Once it finally found a pure and ingenious host, it merged with the orphan Cardith, and began a long sequence of events and rituals that would culminate with the recreation of its physical form.






My personal opinion is that Dragons are really a type of angel, just in a monstrous rather than humanoid form. Some gods made several, some made none, but only the strongest have survived. Since the retconning of FfH history a couple of versions ago,all angels (excluding the 21 gods who were made by The One) were created as weapons in the Godswar. I also like to think that Angels and Dragons are not made of crude matter/mana like Creation itself, but are the children of the gods, made of their own soul and thus possessing the Divine Spark just like the Children of Nemed.


It is not uncommon in Erebus for an angel/demon to mate with a mortal and produce offspring (although I don't think there are any examples of them mating with each other), so it is possible that a dragon could as well. Of course, the shear size difference could make mating technically difficult.



I think it is safe to say that no unit in FfH is the descendant of a dragon. Originally, Lizardmen, Orks, Goblins, Ogres, etc., were all supposed to be descendant of the same gren skinned race, who were by nature very chaotic and prone to change. This was however changed, after I pointed out that some entries implied that the Orks were actually the Bannor who were corrupted and mutilated by the Fall of their goddess. After this retcon, the various Clan/barbarian races were separate races who had all been close to Bhall. Who knows, Lizardmen might be all that is left of the Aifons.








(As a side note, I'll say that in my version Dragons are Nukes. They don't self destruct, but they can attack at range and when they do so the whole world shakes under their might. The side effects of this is that they cause other nations to hate you for unleashing such a force upon creation, and they cannot be built until the proper ritual (the equivalent of the Manhatten Project project) is completed by someone. I actually find the need for a ritual (requiring Cult of the Dragon in the city) to be particularly appropriate. The Kuriotates and Sheaim may really want to wipe the other out early though, since the ritual letting their Dragon back into creation will allow the other in as well. The Dragons themselves will be much stronger, and very cheap.



Unfortunately, I didn't get that much done over the break, and am back in school now. If 0.33 hadn't come out I probably would have forced myself to work on it more, but I started playing Somnium instead. I'm not sure when my modmod will get released. If I don't have too much work this first week I'll try to get a 0.32 version out soon, but otherwise it may be a while and would be based on a future 0.33(+?) xienwolf modcomp release.)
 
All Angels made as Weapons for the Godswar? Then what on earth was the whole story of Gowen? Son of an Angel, quite some time before their Deity entered the Godswar. I'd say that is a fair argument against them having been designed JUST for the purpose of being weapons.
 
Ok, maybe saying they were created just to be weapons isn't accurate. The gods began making angels to serve them after Agares' rebellion was uncovered and The One had tasked those still loyal to him with protecting Creation and guiding it towards enlightenment. Good and neutral angels were probably created with this intent, while the demons were created to prevent this. Protecting Creation would involve fighting against Agares' followers, but would not be limited to being weapons of war. Still, it makes sense for Sucellus to have created defensive weapons to deter enemies from invading his lands, in the hope that they would never have to be used.
 
To be honest, I don't know much about the Lizardmen's origins (and I wrote their pedia entries.) I'd be interested to see ideas or Kael's notes, if he has any.
It's possible they were created by mages during the age of Magic, or that they were some minor warrior race from the age of dragons.
 
To be honest, I don't know much about the Lizardmen's origins (and I wrote their pedia entries.) I'd be interested to see ideas or Kael's notes, if he has any.
It's possible they were created by mages during the age of Magic, or that they were some minor warrior race from the age of dragons.

I think they should be one of the experiments from the Age of Magic.

The archmages of that age created a lot of races by combining animals and experimenting. Griffons, chimeras, trolls, manticores, centaurs. Some of these species remained bestial, some made from men became savage, some made from men became goodly races.

Lizardmen would have been a good race to have been created through these experiments. Later they would ally themselves with the Clan of Embers (since they are both hunted by men) but I like that they would have a different origon than the rest fo the clan races.

I suppose they could have been elves, aifons or humans merged with lizards. Maybe each would have developed a different species of lizardman.

I wouldnt want them to be related to dragons.
 
vaguely off topic here but what happens to Cardith when Eurabatres is summoned/created?


I fear the original question was asked by a D&D4th Ed player who has seen the new Dragonborne race and started to ask questions in the hope of a positive answer.

Other than the four (well five for the two Mulcarn made) Dragons already mentioned here, do we know of any others from history? Are the Dragon Bones of anyone in particular or are the just an 'elephant graveyard' for dragons?
 
Well, the only other dragon reference I know was an AoI reference to the slaying of "The Blue Dragon." I believe Nikis-Knight said that he meant it to refer to Drifa, before he knew she would be called The White Dragon, but that it could be easily retconned to refer to another dragon. (A sea Dragon serving Danalin maybe?) (He admitted that the events of mentioned in that entry were just filler made to gove the sense fo a deeper history, which no one has written.) I believe someone also found a reference to a blue dragon being related to Luciaque's Pool in Kael's posting of his old D&D notes (which are not cannon).
 
vaguely off topic here but what happens to Cardith when Eurabatres is summoned/created?


I fear the original question was asked by a D&D4th Ed player who has seen the new Dragonborne race and started to ask questions in the hope of a positive answer.

Other than the four (well five for the two Mulcarn made) Dragons already mentioned here, do we know of any others from history? Are the Dragon Bones of anyone in particular or are the just an 'elephant graveyard' for dragons?

No reason to fear 4E. It's a pretty good game, to my surprise; took me a while to come around. Its core setting has got a different thrust than older base settings. Speaking as an old 2E fan I think its mechanics could play really well with Dark Sun.

That said, if you're looking to play a Dragonborn in an FFH-inspired game, I think your best bet is probably reflavoring it to have something to do with Mulcarn / frost giants for cold; I don't have any particularly excellent suggestions for the other archetypes but I'm sure people would be willing to make suggestions.
 
I'm actually quite glad to see that there's very few dragons around considering their power (wow especially from the AoI scenario) I doubt very much we'll see any more in the game but I'm glad there's no more room for them- those that are around already remind us of the old ages and what they could do.
 
That said, if you're looking to play a Dragonborn in an FFH-inspired game, I think your best bet is probably reflavoring it to have something to do with Mulcarn / frost giants for cold; I don't have any particularly excellent suggestions for the other archetypes but I'm sure people would be willing to make suggestions.
I have only a passing familiarity with D&D, but why wouldn't Lizardmen work for dragonborn? They are decently civilized and certainly bear a passing resemblance to dragons. We don't give them breath weapons, but that could certainly be fudged.
Actually, Lizardmen could very well be directly related to dragons in the sense that the remnants of one may have inspired some talented mage to create them. Hmm...
 
There are Lizardling races of all flavours in D&D (pre-4E), you don't need to use the Dragonborne race. The 4E rules are horrid anyway.
 
Hm, you are all wrong about this DnD4 matter. I don't play it, and I don't think I ever will. I was just curious, and Dragonborn (which I originally wanted to name Half-Dragons, but it seemed too... well...) are just a nice idea for CotD units. But well, if experts say that they don't exist - they don't exist.

Thanks everyone for cooperation.
 
Hmm, Abashi is Tebryn's phylactery? No wonder he's so confident.
This is Bella Soma
 
actually 4E is better cuz 3.5E=lots of ways to make ur char, boring combat. 4E=less ways to make ur char, but all viable+interesting combat
 
Simple mathematics will tell you that 4ED is rubbish.

4ED = no Bard. Therefore, 4ED = Crap.

On a more serious note, I hate the Dragonborn race with a passion. Why did they add such filler to the new addition but remove things like Bards, Druids, and Gnomes?
 
Because Hasbro/Wizards realised that 'less able' people (using the PC term) found D&D too hard to grasp so they dumbed it right down, removing everything difficult to understand like magic, religion and setting history and replaced it all with Dwarven 'Adventurers' called Carlos who claim to be lawful good and then kills a Archon for the experience points and the treasure.
 
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