Dream Civs/Leaders for Civ 7

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Hmm, this person really likes Taizong!

Even though I would want Han Wudi for China, I have a feeling Taizong will get in just because so many people have been asking for him.

 

[seasnake]

Okay, last two regions:

Europe/North Africa
Berbers
Britain
France
Germany
Ottoman
Russia
Spain

I am really hoping Europe gets pared down in this expansion. These are the essential and frankly to my mind represent the largest and most influential globally. The Berbers includes the Almoravid dynasty that ruled Spain, that is why they are lumped in here.

Asia
Japan
Khazars
Korea
Majapahit
Maurya
Mongolia
Mughal
Qin
Siam
Song

I think China and India need to get split, too large and too much history to blob into "China." Khazars were a world power in their time and represent an important but forgotten region: the Black Sea. Adds needed diversity and starting balance.

 

[seasnake]

I am against most countries as civilizations, including Canada, Australia, Brazil, Argentina, Scotland, etc. The only modern country I would consider is America because of its prominence in the 20th century as the last great empire alongside the Soviets and the influence of the 1776 revolution and Constitution, as well as the cultural imperialism of Hollywood/Broadway/Rock and Roll, etc. I sort of have a rubric of the later you came, the more you have to have changed the game. America and post-Bismarck Germany are the closest modern civs that tick enough boxes to make it in, and frankly you could probably talk me out of both.

 

[Patine]

Khazars

I think the Khazars are a contentious choice due to being heavily-associated with Anti-Semitic myths, and the fact that the only verified piece of text written by them we have is a sentence written to someone else acknowledging they got an earlier message.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Framing it around a "need" is misleading - the core things the game "needs" are not intractably divided from those things we as gamers might "want" so there's nothing inherently wrong with wanting villain leaders for some spice (particularly if some become meme-worthy and inject some drama into the game).

That said, I think you've pinned nicely that "villain" leaders in Civ are those who are militant and murderous. Having leaders like that has inherent value in Civ, particularly as they add more flavor to diplomacy and strategic maneuverings in general (should I build walls? Or keep building that wonder? I mean, he is a scary guy...)

Anyone in Civ VI who started a game and discovered that their nearest neighbors are Shaka, Genghis, Alexander, Pedro, and Montezuma knows how much having aggressive, militant, "villainous" opponents can change your entire strategy and game . . .

 

[seasnake]

I think the Khazars are a contentious choice due to being heavily-associated with Anti-Semitic myths, and the fact that the only verified piece of text written by them we have is a sentence written to someone else acknowledging they got an earlier message.

There are enough contemporary sources though that attest to the Khazar Khaganate and describe it, so that shouldn't be a major issue for gameplay. As far as anti-Semitism, I know that misconception exists, but one of the reasons it exists is that for low information people the revelation of a Eurasian Jewish superpower blows their mind and because they feel ignorant, they're willing to believe other things. Better to get it out there and fill that gap in knowledge and history so it doesn't seem like some weird hidden secret.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Anyone in Civ VI who started a game and discovered that their nearest neighbors are Shaka, Genghis, Alexander, Pedro, and Montezuma knows how much having aggressive, militant, "villainous" opponents can change your entire strategy and game . . .

Pedro?

 

[BestMan13]

I was thinking Hezekiah for the leader, so this would be outside the realm of biblical myth/legend.

Honestly, this is what I was thinking. Hezekiah is not just solely known from The Bible, but is referenced in contemporary sources. I think that a Judean civ with Hezekiah at the helm would have a playstyle based around being highly defensive while also maximizing religion and culture.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Pedro?

Every great person you acquire means Pedro took that personally.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Pedro?

Pedro.​

In every single game I have ever had him in, the %$#@^& SOB has attacked me. Unless I spend every turn, every effort to placate him, sooner of later he finds an excuse. He is one of the most consistent Leaders in Civ VI in that respect, and so he requires a certain response if he's in the game and anywhere near me, which can be summarized as: Carry A Big Stick - And Use It.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Johnny Curtains is also a very strong offender of the same rule, btw.

So weird that these "peaceful", "magnanimous", "likeable" leaders somehow end up the biggest jerks in the game. Almost as if the AI hasn't been programmed well...x

 

[Lord Lakely]

Some other desires I have (picking up from where I left of):

Tlingit / Haida - A very cool choice for a PWN native american Civ. I'd put Tlingit over Haida because they have better attested settlements and their language has more speakers, making it easier to create a Civ around them. Tlingit culture also revolves around two clans, Wolf and Raiven, who must intermarry accordig to their customs, which can be the base for a fun civ ability.

Swahili (led by Fumo Liyongo) - About time we upgrade Kilwa Kisiwani and Zanzibar to proper Civ cities (from a Wonder and City State respectively). The Swahili language is well attested, as is Swahili Culture and we haven't had an African civ specialized for watermaps yet. This is the one. Give them a unique boat, a unique lighthouse and an ability around great works of literature (by picking Fumo Liyongo as the leader) and you're set.

Burma (led by Bayinnaung or Anawrahta) - The Burmese kingdoms are the largest and most powerful kingdoms from that area of the world that have to yet make a Civ appearance. Vietnam, Khmer and Siam all are very worthy of their own inclusion but if you want a fresh inclusion, this is the one to take.

Diné (led Manuelito / Hastiin Chʼil Haajiní ) - The Navajo are a fun and intersting choice for a midwestern native American Civ - The use of their language in Espionage could make them pretty good at counterintelligence, and their attested craftsmanship makes them a prime candidate for an econ civ, not dissimilar to the Cree.

as for the overal list I'd like to see the following

Europe:

Romans
Greeks
English
French
Germans
Rus/Russians
Spanish
Polish
Dutch
Portuguese
Vikings
Celts
Swedes
Italians

Middle East:

Iranians
Arabs
Ottomans
Phoenicians/Carthaginians
Mesopotamians (Sumerians,Babylonians and/or Akkadians)
Assyrians
Hittites
Sogdians/Uzbeks/Timurids
Mughals
Armenians

South-Asia

Indians (split up)
Siamese
Indonesians
Vietnamese
Khmer
Burmese

Far East

Chinese
Mongols
Japanese
Koreans

Oceania

Polynesians (any)

Africa:

Ethiopians
Berbers
Swahili
Nigerians (any)
Ghanaians/Mali (any)
Zulu (if we must.)

Americas:

Incans
Mayans
Aztecs
Haudenosaunnee
Americans (sigh)
Lakota
Brazillians
Tlingit
Diné
Muisca
Gran Colombians?
Argentinians?

 

[Blue whale]

So there are a few threads running about concerning mechanics and graphics for Civ 7, which are certainly important (personally, I like the graphics style choices they made for Civ6, especially once they got into later DLCs, and think they're already showing that they'll age better than any "realistic" style would, but it's a less important issue for me.)

For me, the most important thing I'm fixated on is: What will the Civs and Leaders be?!

So I'm posting a far-fromt-complete collection of Civs/Leaders I'd love to see, some of which are absolute pipe-dreams, but whatever, I can dream if I want to.

AFRICA:

Songhai: This was one of my favorite options in Civ5, and I'd love to see them return, either as a quasi-replacement for Mali (one of my favorite designs in Civ6 with ether leader) or in addition to them. Leaders could be either a returning Askia or Sonni Ali (and honestly, the Civ5 flavor of Songhai probably made more sense for Sonni Ali than for Askia given their most noteworthy accomplishments) but either way, this is a cool part of the world to dive into the history and culture of.

ASIA:

Mughal Empire: Firaxis is never going to not have Gandhi, it seems like, but dang it'd be cool to see a Mughal Emperor in the mix somewhere. Babur and Akbar are obvious choices, and probably the way that this would need to go for taking a real swing at this, but I'd really like Shah Jahan, sort of in the vein of Ludwig II, playing as a Wondermongering Culture Monster.

Siam: Another one I'd love to see return from Civ5. I enjoy the SEA civs a lot, and while it seems like there's a cap on how many of them we can get per game, I'd welcome more of them in Civ7. (Khmer and Vietnam are two of my go-tos in Civ6, and I don't know what it is about the region that leads to such interesting mechanical design, but there seems to be something there.)

EUROPE:

Florence: We've had Rome as a series mainstay, and Civ5 gave us Venice as a highly individual way of playing a Medieval Italian city-state as a different kind of empire. But as far as I know, we've never had a representation of Renaissance Italy, which is wild. A Florentine civ under Cosimo or Lorenzo de' Medici could open up a lot of design space (perhaps earning more gold in Golden Ages and discounts on GP patronage in Golden Ages, or some variation on Eleanor's ability, but I'm imagining Civ6 mechanics which likely won't apply anymore)

Ireland: Specifically, led by Grace O'Malley. Now, if we're going to have a Pirate Queen Leader, Cheng Shih would really take priority for a number of reasons, being the most successful pirate in history, but Grace O'Malley actually did rule a dynasty, which I think makes her a better fit for Irish Leader than Cheng Shih would be for a Chinese Leader. It would be a highly specific way to play Ireland, of course, but assuming that Civ7 keeps the distinction between CUAs and LUAs, allowing for more than one leader per civ, it would be awesome.

Papal States: Or Holy See, or Vatican City, whatever you want to call it. Design-wise, Georgia and Byzantium pretty much covered what this could look like under Civ6 mechanics, and I'd want Florence before this if we're adding more Italian civs, but there's interesting stuff you could do here.

NORTH AMERICA:

America: Despite (or perhaps because of) being American, the American civ designs/leaders have rarely appealed to me. Civ6 changed that somewhat (I like Lincoln's design, mechanically, though flavor-wise it feels a little too cute and on-the-nose), but what I'd really love to see (and don't expect to see) is an American Civ with a Science focus led by JFK.

Cherokee: Native American civs are always tough, since the Tribes in question aren't always happy about being represented in the series, but if it's a possibility, I'd like to see the Cherokee as led by Sequoyah. (True, he was not a Leader in the governmental sense, but I think he falls under the same broader definition that Gandhi does.) I picture something like getting access to a city project each time you meet a new civilization which allows you to gain a massive amount of science and/or culture, but there are a lot of ways you could play around with this.

SOUTH AMERICA:

Argentina: This seems to me like the biggest "missing piece" of post-Columbian America that the series has left. Juan Perón is almost certainly too recent to work as a leader (though maybe not - Haile Selassie's timeline maps onto Perón's almost exactly.) I honestly don't know what Argentina would look like as a Civ, mechanically, but I'd like to see it.

I'll likely add more to this list as they come to me, but who would YOU really love to see, either returning or for the first time? Thanks!

You want three civs in Italy

 

[Foxforch]

Suomi
Teutons
Bulgars
Irish
Cumans
Inuit
Lithuanians
Austrians
Haudenosaunee
Pueblo
Cherokee
Hittites
Zimbabweans

 

[Patine]

Suomi
Teutons
Bulgars
Irish
Cumans
Inuit
Lithuanians
Austrians
Haudenosaunee
Pueblo
Cherokee
Hittites
Zimbabweans

How do you define, "Teuton?" And how are they, and Austrians, different as civ's than Germans? Out of curiosity.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

How do you define, "Teuton?" And how are they, and Austrians, different as civ's than Germans? Out of curiosity

Presumably, Teutons based on 10th-13th century North Germans, with Faith and Military characteristics, and Austria based on the 16th-19th century Austrians, with Culture and Diplomacy/Influence characteristics

 

[Patine]

Presumably, Teutons based on 10th-13th century North Germans, with Faith and Military characteristics, and Austria based on the 16th-19th century Austrians, with Culture and Diplomacy/Influence characteristics

They're all Germans, as a civ. By Civ6 reckoning (which is what I was going by when I typed this - not this wonky previewed system), they should all three be one civ with multiple leaders.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

They're all Germans, as a civ. By Civ6 reckoning (which is what I was going by when I typed this - not this wonky previewed system), they should all three be one civ with multiple leaders.

Well considering Civ 7 might presumably have the Normans and England/Britain, having Teutons and Austria/Germany might not be out of the question anymore.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Well considering Civ 7 might presumably have the Normans and England/Britain

The source for that is an interview with Ed Beach, who was using the city of London as an example of how different civilizations influenced the same city over history, so I wouldn't be holding my breath for a Norman civ

 

[notNamed]

The source for that is an interview with Ed Beach, who was using the city of London as an example of how different civilizations influenced the same city over history, so I wouldn't be holding my breath for a Norman civ

Apart from this being a very selective reading of the interview, we literally have gameplay shots of some knights flying the banner of Normandy while squaring off against Tercios flying the old Spanish flag.