Dumbing down of education

[Uiler]

One of the comments in one of the maths threads made me think. It was about how most Americans only learn calculus in their senior year of high school. It reminds me of a story from when I was in school. I learnt how to read very quickly and by the end of 1st year I could read 3rd year books. However the librarian told me I was not allowed to borrow any of them out because I was only in 1st year and had to "wait" and why don't I go and read some more 1st year books. The first year books were all picture books. Starting from 3rd year, you could get actual novels. What the...if I have the ability to read 3rd year and higher books why on earth aren't I allowed to borrow them out? What is with this arbitrary age limit?!!!! Fortunately there was the public library. Another thing I remember from school was that they kept on repeating the same things in maths again year after year. Wait a moment. Didn't we do this exact same topic *last* year? Why on earth are we doing it again? I guess the idea was to repeat it again for people who didn't "get" it last time, but isn't that what remedial class is for?

On a funnier note, in 2nd year I once asked a teacher to help me with a maths problem. He got it wrong. Bwahahaha. Err, actually now that I think about it, that's rather sad.

So, does anyone else have any stories about the dumbing down of education?

 

[LLXerxes]

One of the comments in one of the maths threads made me think. It was about how most Americans only learn calculus in their senior year of high school. It reminds me of a story from when I was in school. I learnt how to read very quickly and by the end of 1st year I could read 3rd year books. However the librarian told me I was not allowed to borrow any of them out because I was only in 1st year and had to "wait" and why don't I go and read some more 1st year books. The first year books were all picture books. Starting from 3rd year, you could get actual novels. What the...if I have the ability to read 3rd year and higher books why on earth aren't I allowed to borrow them out? What is with this arbitrary age limit?!!!! Fortunately there was the public library.

This is probably because the 3rd graders need proper reading material. Since this is the ideal age for tending to reading, they need to be able to get books as practice.

Another thing I remember from school was that they kept on repeating the same things in maths again year after year. Wait a moment. Didn't we do this exact same topic *last* year? Why on earth are we doing it again? I guess the idea was to repeat it again for people who didn't "get" it last time, but isn't that what remedial class is for?

Actually, half of it is a review of what you did last year because you need it later, and the other half is actual new concepts. Like you can review what a fraction is and what each parts are, and you can learn how to add, subtract, multiply and divide them.

On a funnier note, in 2nd year I once asked a teacher to help me with a maths problem. He got it wrong. Bwahahaha. Err, actually now that I think about it, that's rather sad.

Teachers are human, too.

I'm in the gifted center at my school, so I don't ever run into these problems. In fact, most people in today's culture are too busy rotting away in front of the television or at hte mall instead of reading, doing homework, or doing hard work.

 

[Babbler]

It reminds me of a story from when I was in school. I learnt how to read very quickly and by the end of 1st year I could read 3rd year books. However the librarian told me I was not allowed to borrow any of them out because I was only in 1st year and had to "wait" and why don't I go and read some more 1st year books. The first year books were all picture books. Starting from 3rd year, you could get actual novels. What the...if I have the ability to read 3rd year and higher books why on earth aren't I allowed to borrow them out? What is with this arbitrary age limit?!!!! Fortunately there was the public library.

That's silly bureaucracy, of course.

Another thing I remember from school was that they kept on repeating the same things in maths again year after year. Wait a moment. Didn't we do this exact same topic *last* year? Why on earth are we doing it again? I guess the idea was to repeat it again for people who didn't "get" it last time, but isn't that what remedial class is for?

Repetition is one of best ways of learning something. Besides, people forget.

On a funnier note, in 2nd year I once asked a teacher to help me with a maths problem. He got it wrong. Bwahahaha. Err, actually now that I think about it, that's rather sad.

Throughout my education, teacher have made mistakes in their subjects. There are human, afterall.

 

[Uiler]

This is probably because the 3rd graders need proper reading material. Since this is the ideal age for tending to reading, they need to be able to get books as practice.

Actually, half of it is a review of what you did last year because you need it later, and the other half is actual new concepts. Like you can review what a fraction is and what each parts are, and you can learn how to add, subtract, multiply and divide them.


Teachers are human, too.

I'm in the gifted center at my school, so I don't ever run into these problems. In fact, most people in today's culture are too busy rotting away in front of the television or at hte mall instead of reading, doing homework, or doing hard work.

No, that wasn't the situation. 1st years were allowed to borrow books too for practice but *only* 1st year books. 2nd years were allowed to borrow books but could borrow both 1st and 2nd year books. 3rd years and above could borrow books from any year. By the end of 1st year I could easily read the novels in the 3rd year and above section but weren't allowed to borrow any of them out because I wasn't old enough. The librarian knew I could read the novels easily. But you know, rules. However, I could borrow out any picture book I wanted . As I said, thank god public libraries don't have these insane policies.

As for repetition. I don't remember going through any new concepts. It was a long time ago so maybe my memory is wrong. A "review of past concepts" shouldn't take half of the time though. At most the first couple of lessons just to refresh people's memories. If it takes half the time it wasn't taught correctly the first time.

 

[Red Stranger]

One of the comments in one of the maths threads made me think. It was about how most Americans only learn calculus in their senior year of high school. It reminds me of a story from when I was in school. I learnt how to read very quickly and by the end of 1st year I could read 3rd year books. However the librarian told me I was not allowed to borrow any of them out because I was only in 1st year and had to "wait" and why don't I go and read some more 1st year books. The first year books were all picture books. Starting from 3rd year, you could get actual novels. What the...if I have the ability to read 3rd year and higher books why on earth aren't I allowed to borrow them out? What is with this arbitrary age limit?!!!! Fortunately there was the public library. Another thing I remember from school was that they kept on repeating the same things in maths again year after year. Wait a moment. Didn't we do this exact same topic *last* year? Why on earth are we doing it again? I guess the idea was to repeat it again for people who didn't "get" it last time, but isn't that what remedial class is for?

On a funnier note, in 2nd year I once asked a teacher to help me with a maths problem. He got it wrong. Bwahahaha. Err, actually now that I think about it, that's rather sad.

So, does anyone else have any stories about the dumbing down of education?

I hope what happened in your library is an exception rather than a rule for American schools. In my school, everyone is encouraged to read at whatever level they're capable of. My school also has special permission to access the database of many major Universities in America (not just their webpage). I think schools should be privatized to increase efficiency.

 

[Gogf]

I guess I've been spoiled in terms of education. I've always gone to private school, and while we've done some review, we've generally moved on to new concepts fairly early in the year. On the other hand, I have generally always been in "the accelerated class." I can't really speak about the quality of education in public schools, as I've never actually been to one.

 

[Irish Caesar]

I have been public-school educated from the age of 5. I have no complaints. My current public education is the polar opposite of dumbed-down.

 

[ShannonCT]

On a funnier note, in 2nd year I once asked a teacher to help me with a maths problem. He got it wrong. Bwahahaha. Err, actually now that I think about it, that's rather sad.

So, does anyone else have any stories about the dumbing down of education?

Of course no one is perfect. But as a private math tutor, I've seen things that lead me to think that a lot of math teachers are grossly underqualified. I've tutored public school teachers in math who needed to pass exams to be recertified, and who had a shameful lack of proficiency in algebra and geometry. And there have been plenty of cases when reviewing a students graded test that I've found answers incorrectly marked wrong because teachers were using some standard answer key to a test they didn't write and they hadn't checked whether the answer key was correct. In some incredibly frustrating cases, I've had high school teachers mark wrong perfectly correct answers on my students tests because the student solved the problem in a more logical, concise way than what they were taught by the teacher. I think too many math teachers today are classroom managers and child psychologists first and mathmaticians second (and second is being generous).

Not many intelligent people go into teaching today. GRE averages of masters degree candidates in education are lower than those for any other field. The bureaucracy of public schools and teachers' unions ensures that the most intelligent highly-skilled teachers are rewarded the same as the mediocre ones. People with strong quantitative skills know that they can make more money in just about any field besides teaching. If we want better teachers for our public schools, we have to reward the most talented individuals and give them a reason to choose the public sector over the private.

I'll get off my pedestal now.

 

[Hygro]

The moment I stepped into a university classroom I knew that public school, post-elementary, was largely a misuse of time.

 

[Elta]

In some incredibly frustrating cases, I've had high school teachers mark wrong perfectly correct answers on my students tests because the student solved the problem in a more logical, concise way than what they were taught by the teacher.

This happened to me alot even thou I suck at "advanced math" (because I ditched so much that I flunked out of every thing and never got to take it)
.....seriously alot I would have to go to the front of the class and give him the awnser "in your head like on the test" to prove I didn't cheat, I did this time and time agian.

 

[ShannonCT]

.....seriously alot I would have to go to the front of the class and give him the awnser "in your head like on the test" to prove I didn't cheat, I did this time and time agian.

I think you're talking about your teacher being suspicious because you didn't show your work and still got the correct answer. I'm talking about teachers who would not accept answers that used a method other than what they taught, probably because the method I taught the student was less cumbersome and better than the method they had decided to teach.

 

[Elta]

I think you're talking about your teacher being suspicious because you didn't show your work and still got the correct answer. I'm talking about teachers who would not accept answers that used a method other than what they taught, probably because the method I taught the student was less cumbersome and better than the method they had decided to teach.

I know what you mean there also, allthou yes that is what I meant. Off topic: what should someone who coasted though high school with easy math classes do to prepare for college?

 

[warpus]

Repetition is one of best ways of learning something. Besides, people forget.

The best way to learn a concept is by understanding the concepts behind it.

Repetition often leads to the memorization of formulas and not really a true understanding of the matter at hand.

It's fine in the earlier grades, because you do need to start somewhere, but something like math should be at least 50% theory, by grade 8.

 

[ShannonCT]

I know what you mean there also, allthou yes that is what I meant. Off topic: what should someone who coasted though high school with easy math classes do to prepare for college?

It seems that in most colleges nowadays, you can keep coasting. There aren't many schools left where Calculus is part of the core curriculum. I assume you are not going to school to be an engineer or a physicist. Take the most basic algebra class and don't skip class. Find out what kind of free tutoring/homework help is available. If you want to do some preparation before you begin school, try Schaum's outlines for algebra and geometry.

 

[Tomoyo]

Four years at an inner city public school yielded me perfect knowledge of the times tables, and not much else. Well, I knew more math by fourth grade, but not from the school. It was kinda sad though how some kids still didn't understand single digit multiplication by fourth grade. Then I moved to the suburbs and guess what the first thing we did in math was? Times tables. Then... word problems using those times tables. Then... word problems combining adding and multiplying. Then... the year was over. By the end of next year, though, we had all been taught how to solve linear algebraic equations.

I don't think people at my old school actually used the school library to borrow reading books. The public library was much bigger and better.

Whenever I have a teacher that doesn't understand the material any more than I do, I umm... just do whatever he/she says. I used to point out everything he/she got wrong, but that's really not a smart thing to do.

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

I suffer terribly from this in most subjects. It is the reason I get bad grades. I don't bother to do anything. I talk and I don't pay attention.

 

[Luckymoose]

School is for fools. Draft everyone in the army then throw them to work.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

It was about how most Americans only learn calculus in their senior year of high school.
So, does anyone else have any stories about the dumbing down of education?

In my high school, oh so long ago, they didn't even teach Calculus, we have from Freshman-Senior the following 'advanced' options: Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, Trig. You couldn't take them early. The most annoying thing to me was the age=grade concept. This is stupid, especially for those who are advanced in cetain fields, but not others. I'm definately trying to map out where I live based upon how good the local schools are for my kids.

 

[Atlas14]

I took Calculus my sophmore year of highschool, and it has done me little good. Then again I never took another math until now, my freshman year of college. But taking courses earlier is pointless if the quality of the teachers teaching the material is crappy.

 

[pboily]

Of course no one is perfect. But as a private math tutor, I've seen things that lead me to think that a lot of math teachers are grossly underqualified. I've tutored public school teachers in math who needed to pass exams to be recertified, and who had a shameful lack of proficiency in algebra and geometry. And there have been plenty of cases when reviewing a students graded test that I've found answers incorrectly marked wrong because teachers were using some standard answer key to a test they didn't write and they hadn't checked whether the answer key was correct. In some incredibly frustrating cases, I've had high school teachers mark wrong perfectly correct answers on my students tests because the student solved the problem in a more logical, concise way than what they were taught by the teacher. I think too many math teachers today are classroom managers and child psychologists first and mathmaticians second (and second is being generous).

I don't know how math professors become qualified in your neck of the woods. In Ontario, they're supposed to have at least a minor in mathematics or physics before they can go to teacher's college. In Quebec, they take an undergraduate in "teaching mathematics".

I've only taught at two universities: Ottawa and Universite du Quebec en Outaouais. If these are representative of Universities for either province, the situation is neatly resumed thus:

The students who like and understand mathematics are encouraged not to become primary and high school teachers: the pay is abyssimal, and it is well understood that you will have that they will have to become "class psychologists/managers/cheerleaders"...

On the other hand, the students who do not understand/like mathematics end up becoming mathematics teachers, giving us a new generation of students who will already dislike mathematics before they enter university, who will in turn give us a new batch of said students, etc...

If we restrict access to students with skills and encourage these to become primary/high school teachers, we are left with not enough teachers, which will in turn churn out a new batch of problems.

It would seem the only solution is to let more kids in and attempt to change their mind about mathematics before we unleash them on the unsuspecting public. But that means a whole lot more work on the part of professors, and I'll let you guess what the odds of that happening are.

Privatization is no solution, unless private school teachers get paid the same as what a qualified mathematicians gets paid on the job market, which is unlikely to happen: the problem is the derth of qualified teachers. If you privatize all schools, you'll have the same number of qualified teachers, but they will be spread out in all schools.