Dune Wars 1.3 Feedback

[Greeneyedzombie]

I dont mind if water sources decreases. the prevelance of water now is: meagre 10% normal 20% and plentifull 10%
Maybey it should be made: meagre 15%, normal 10% and plentifull 5% and give them a higher tile yield. either from the beginning or later with techs/buildings.
About the trade routes, in the final frontier mod and fall further their is a civ wich has as special ability increased production and food from trade routes. Wich makes them very overpowered late game imho. But certainly less dependend on where you build cities.

Do you have a building list? wich we can use to see wich one are related to food and health, and work from there wich should give a waterproductionboost.

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

It seems that sometimes each new spice resource costs you an extra 3 gold. Not sure why.Is there a reason why you cant expand your housespice firm to different cities? When they can expand, you could make them besides giving commerce also give water and production bonus. Representing the dependence on spice to import most ofworld goods.

Core mines give 1 less hammer then the level 2 mine.
Hawkes (and hares) give unhealthines with factories.

 

[Ahriman]

I think decreasing the frequency of groundwater somewhat is OK, but we do need to create a list of water related buildings to compensate

There are *lots* of late-game health buildings which should probably be dropped or merged; definitely health late-game is a complete non-issue because there are so many buildings that give health.

One more thematic way to get water could be to link it to trade routes

As zombie says, the Mazatl "Lost Lands" civic in Fall Further does this, but I don't think it really fits here. Where is this water coming from? Just because cities are rich or have more trade routes doesn't mean they'll have more water income. This would turn all kinds of commerce-boosters (space port, customshouse, etc) into growth-boosters.

Is there a reason why you cant expand your housespice firm to different cities?

I've never seen your +3 gold cost per spice, but the reason you can't expand the spice firm is because the benefits from it are huge, if you could spread it then it would be massively overpowered (and/or very hard to balance).

 

[Deliverator]

Where is this water coming from? Just because cities are rich or have more trade routes doesn't mean they'll have more water income.

Since water is one of the primary traded commodities on Arrakis, I think it is fair to have more water in the bigger trade centres. The city of Arrakeen has water sellers in the book, and no particular direct water source that is talked about. If we were following the books completely, then the only source of water would be windtraps.

We would like water to be more of a restriction and scarcer early on - but still have larger cities mid-to-late game and steady growth possible throughout. I prefer the trade option to just having buildings that spontaneously produce water. I think buildings should be more % changes in water from better infrastructure, storage and reclaimation.

This would turn all kinds of commerce-boosters (space port, customshouse, etc) into growth-boosters.

Not necessarily. Commerce modifiers are independent of trade modifiers in building infos as far as I can see. We can keep the two things separate.

 

[Ahriman]

The city of Arrakeen has water sellers in the book, and no particular direct water source that is talked about

Much of the water is coming from polar ice transported to the cities.
But even otherwise, watersellers are like retailers, they are collecting water from windtraps and dew collectors and aquifers and ice and whatever, and then selling it to the population.

Commerce modifiers are independent of trade modifiers in building infos as far as I can see. We can keep the two things separate.

What I mean is, many of the buildings that give trade bonuses or extra trade routes are things that logically feel like they would be boosting the economy, not boosting water supply.

Trade routes also give bonuses for being with foreign civs and for being over longer distances (inter-continental gives a bonus). The idea here is that the further apart cities are, the more different are the goods they produce, and so the more valuable is trade between then. None of these make sense if what you are trading is water; and it doesn't make sense for city A and city B to be trading water with each other.

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

Terrain on wich you can build cottages are rare. How about building a cottage gives water and commerce, (since settlements on dune are mainly self sufficient) wich increase as they grow.
But then we should also make them imune to pillaging from sandstorms.

National buildings wich give civspecific resources are listed as both national and world wonders, thus capturable.
Giving you acces to resources you should only be allowed to have through trade.
Wouldnt it be better to attach those resources to the palace?

 

[davidlallen]

It seems that sometimes each new spice resource costs you an extra 3 gold. Not sure why.

Somehow what you are seeing is significantly different than what the rest of us are seeing. Can you send a savegame or take a screenshot (say, of the economics screen) in your games? If there is some bug, or some unusual circumstance in your game which is causing this, we should try to understand it and fix it.

 

[keldath]

hey guys....
it seems you guys decided to cut down many of the original buildings,

theres almost no buildings on start ages and in general.

we gotta pump up the buildings guys..its kinda boring.

theres almost no military buildings for example.

i think ill do it for a later patch.

 

[Ahriman]

I disagree that there are too few buildings; I think that there are probably still too many buildings, particularly in the late-game, where there are many cost inefficient buildings (spotter control is very expensive for like +15% gold?), duplicate buildings (2 suk buildings nearly identical) or irrelevant buildings (soooo many health production buildings).

The mod is pretty cluttered with buildings IMO. If you want to add more buildings, make sure that there is a clear purpose for the building, rather than just adding more for the sake of it. I'd also suggest making sure that there is generally no more than 1 building per era per function (eg: culture booster, beaker booster, gold booster, hammer booster, trade route booster).

What is it that you would want military buildings to do?

For early game buildings, I'd also consider increasing the refinery yield; 15% hammers is pretty small fort the only forge-type building.

For spice corps; notice that at present you also gain all the benefits when you capture a city that has an enemy civ spice corp in it. So capturing an enemy catapult can have a huge economy benefit; its not impossible to have 3 spice corps each pumping out 60+ commerce.

 

[keldath]

hey, thanks for this feedback.

ok then ill take a look at the too much health bonuses, ill tweak this for the patch.

i wann ahave some cool army buildings - like more value towrds military production, one thay gives xp to a certain unit or combat type, buildings thatat give a certain promotion, and some hammer bonus as you suggested.

i wont add more then 5 buildings, and ill tweak the rest.

thanks.

 

[keldath]

ohhh...guys....

i think the renaming thing you guys did, made so much errors, both in the buildings and both in the units.

ive fixed everything in the buildings today as well the units as i mentioned before...

some buildings was unbuildible due to this.

plz tell me guys - the renaming thing - what are the files that was changed - im gonna go over all of them.

 

[davidlallen]

All of the files were changed. Please point out one specific error, so that I can verify where the problem came from. A lot of the problems such as the mixup between hornets and thopters were there in 1.1, but we could not notice because the unitclass was like Maceman and the unit was like Swordsman. Now that the names have been pushed through, we can notice inconsistencies more easily.

 

[keldath]

hey david,

the problems where in the buildingsclass -

for example - food werhouse is half water chache half food wh...

orgenizations codex - couldnt be built...

anyway - i fixed them all, went through each building.

 

[keldath]

hey guys,

isaw a small bug, probubly python origin,

when you build a worker for the first time - it gives you a massage pop up, "you have built your first...."
the bug is - that when you click carry on.. or the other one, it keeps poping out a few more times,
and then it goes away, can anyone check this out?

 

[Ahriman]

IIRC this happens whenever you build your first unit of any type, it gives you the first unit message for every unit class.

 

[keldath]

yeah thats right,
well, i guess i can live with this.

 

[davidlallen]

There must be some game option which you have turned on to see this; I do not see it. However, I have locally extended civcheck to also check python files. There are several files which refer to units I have renamed. For example:

screens/cvstatisticsscreen.py
entrypoints/cvrandomeventinterface.py
screens/cvstatisticsscreensenums.py
contrib/randomnameutils.py
revolution/rebeltypes.py
cvmapgeneratorutil.py
cvadvisorutils.py
revolution/revdefs.py

I think probably cvadvisorutils is the one that generates this. However, for units which we have *not* renamed, such as worker, I would think this should be ok.

What option did you turn on to see these?

 

[Ahriman]

Carryalls and suspensor units need to not get terrain defensive bonuses.

I'd argue carryalls should also be unable to attack.